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Latin records translations
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Dave,
This is not a Latin translation question, but I knew that you would find it if I placed it here. I am hoping that your map-finding skills could be brought to bear on a question of mine. My question is, where is the village of Kulanka?
The reason that I ask is that I can see it on an index but I cannot find it on a map, neither a current-day map nor an historical map. Let’s start with the index. If you go to this link:
http://regestry.lubgens.eu/news.php
Use the following search criteria:
For Parafia, Potok Górny
For Nazwisko, Borek
For the range of years, 1870-1890.
In the resulting table of records, you can see in the birth/baptism section that the indexer has included the name of the village as well as the names of the parents. Some of the villages are simple to find, such as Dąbrówka and Lipiny Dolny, but I cannot find Kulanka. What I do see on both old and current maps is Wola Kulońska but I am unsure whether this is the same place.
Are you able to find a map that shows Kulanka, or a reference to it being synonymous with Wola Kulońska?
Thanks!
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

I had no luck finding Kulanka on any map nor was I able to locate a listing for the place in the Słownik geograficzny even substituting letters, like ó for u. I located Wola Kulońska on the 1907 map of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) with the spelling Wola Kolanska (#40 powiat Bilgorajski) but had no success in the Słownik geograficzny, again searching with alternate similar sounding letters. The bottom line is that I can’t answer your questions. However, I do have a suggestion. David Gilly’s 1803 map of South Prussia https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html should include the area around and south of Bilgoraj since from 1795 until 1807 South Prussia covered the territory up to the northern border of the Austrian Partition (Galicia). The Gilly map is slightly skewed in that true north is not at the top of the pages of the map. My best guess is that the area of interest to you should be either in section B-IV or C-IV of the Gilly Map. Also, a word of caution, place names sometimes are in their German version rather than their Polish form.

A possibility which occurs to me is that Kulanka was a small village which later became part of a larger village. However there is no proof that it became part of Wola Kulońska.

Sorry that I can’t be of more help.

Good luck with the quest.

Dave
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2486
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:22 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

Can you please provide a translation of the attached 2 records - 1 baptism and 1 death. After searching for some time and then putting it aside for a while I have revisited my search for records for the village of Lubinia Mała circa 1800 and finally located them in Sławoszew Parish.

The Baptism is for my 3xGGF and his 2 marriage records indicate that his parents were alive when he married in the 1830's and living in Lubinia Mała, however, when searching for his parents Marriage and Death records I could only find the attached death record which is only 4 years later and it doesn't appear to provide sufficient information. With any luck the translations may assist further searching.

The birth record is on the second page about half way down, and the death record on the first page near the top.

Cheers

Ted


Hi Ted,

The death & burial record is that of Antoni, a son of Grzegorz. Anyway, here are the two translations.

Dave

1807 B&B of Józef Paprzycki

Right Margin: Lubinia Mała
Body of Entry: In the same year on the 2nd day of June, I, who is above, baptized an infant by the name of Józef, born on the 30th of May in the evening of the legitimate marital union of the upright Grzegorz Paprzycki, a miller, and his consort Rozalia. The sponsors were the renowned Marcin ?olarzczyk, a brewer from Kotlino and Pani Antonina Charpentierowa from Lubinia Mała.

1810 D&B of Antoni Paprzycki

Left Margin: Lubinia Mała
Body of Entry: In the same year on the 5th day of September a boy by the name of Antoni, about 7 years of age died, the son of the renowned Grzegorz Paprzycki, a miller, and was buried in the cemetery towards the South.
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TedMack



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Post Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:52 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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dnowicki wrote:
TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

Can you please provide a translation of the attached 2 records - 1 baptism and 1 death. After searching for some time and then putting it aside for a while I have revisited my search for records for the village of Lubinia Mała circa 1800 and finally located them in Sławoszew Parish.

The Baptism is for my 3xGGF and his 2 marriage records indicate that his parents were alive when he married in the 1830's and living in Lubinia Mała, however, when searching for his parents Marriage and Death records I could only find the attached death record which is only 4 years later and it doesn't appear to provide sufficient information. With any luck the translations may assist further searching.

The birth record is on the second page about half way down, and the death record on the first page near the top.

Cheers

Ted


Hi Ted,

The death & burial record is that of Antoni, a son of Grzegorz. Anyway, here are the two translations.

Dave

1807 B&B of Józef Paprzycki

Right Margin: Lubinia Mała
Body of Entry: In the same year on the 2nd day of June, I, who is above, baptized an infant by the name of Józef, born on the 30th of May in the evening of the legitimate marital union of the upright Grzegorz Paprzycki, a miller, and his consort Rozalia. The sponsors were the renowned Marcin ?olarzczyk, a brewer from Kotlino and Pani Antonina Charpentierowa from Lubinia Mała.

1810 D&B of Antoni Paprzycki

Left Margin: Lubinia Mała
Body of Entry: In the same year on the 5th day of September a boy by the name of Antoni, about 7 years of age died, the son of the renowned Grzegorz Paprzycki, a miller, and was buried in the cemetery towards the South.



Thanks Dave - that helps a great deal with my search for Grzegorz's marriage, I now know that it was possibly earlier than first thought.

Thanks again.
Ted
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 4:07 am      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
Sophia wrote:
Hi Dave,
This is not a Latin translation question, but I knew that you would find it if I placed it here. I am hoping that your map-finding skills could be brought to bear on a question of mine. My question is, where is the village of Kulanka?
The reason that I ask is that I can see it on an index but I cannot find it on a map, neither a current-day map nor an historical map. Let’s start with the index. If you go to this link:
http://regestry.lubgens.eu/news.php
Use the following search criteria:
For Parafia, Potok Górny
For Nazwisko, Borek
For the range of years, 1870-1890.
In the resulting table of records, you can see in the birth/baptism section that the indexer has included the name of the village as well as the names of the parents. Some of the villages are simple to find, such as Dąbrówka and Lipiny Dolny, but I cannot find Kulanka. What I do see on both old and current maps is Wola Kulońska but I am unsure whether this is the same place.
Are you able to find a map that shows Kulanka, or a reference to it being synonymous with Wola Kulońska?
Thanks!
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

I had no luck finding Kulanka on any map nor was I able to locate a listing for the place in the Słownik geograficzny even substituting letters, like ó for u. I located Wola Kulońska on the 1907 map of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) with the spelling Wola Kolanska (#40 powiat Bilgorajski) but had no success in the Słownik geograficzny, again searching with alternate similar sounding letters. The bottom line is that I can’t answer your questions. However, I do have a suggestion. David Gilly’s 1803 map of South Prussia https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html should include the area around and south of Bilgoraj since from 1795 until 1807 South Prussia covered the territory up to the northern border of the Austrian Partition (Galicia). The Gilly map is slightly skewed in that true north is not at the top of the pages of the map. My best guess is that the area of interest to you should be either in section B-IV or C-IV of the Gilly Map. Also, a word of caution, place names sometimes are in their German version rather than their Polish form.

A possibility which occurs to me is that Kulanka was a small village which later became part of a larger village. However there is no proof that it became part of Wola Kulońska.

Sorry that I can’t be of more help.

Good luck with the quest.

Dave


Hi Dave,
Thanks so much for looking into it, and for the link to the Gilly map. Your point is well taken that I have to be flexible about the spelling of the village, since either it morphed over time or else it was interpreted differently by different mapmakers, who were, after all, making maps in various languages. Given the proximity of these towns to the Galician border, I have also been spending time looking through the Gesher collection of maps. I may yet find my answer.
Then again, there's always gardening!
All the best,
Sophia
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TedMack



Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 309
Location: Sydney, Australia

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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:10 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
dnowicki wrote:
Sophia wrote:
Hi Dave,
This is not a Latin translation question, but I knew that you would find it if I placed it here. I am hoping that your map-finding skills could be brought to bear on a question of mine. My question is, where is the village of Kulanka?
The reason that I ask is that I can see it on an index but I cannot find it on a map, neither a current-day map nor an historical map. Let’s start with the index. If you go to this link:
http://regestry.lubgens.eu/news.php
Use the following search criteria:
For Parafia, Potok Górny
For Nazwisko, Borek
For the range of years, 1870-1890.
In the resulting table of records, you can see in the birth/baptism section that the indexer has included the name of the village as well as the names of the parents. Some of the villages are simple to find, such as Dąbrówka and Lipiny Dolny, but I cannot find Kulanka. What I do see on both old and current maps is Wola Kulońska but I am unsure whether this is the same place.
Are you able to find a map that shows Kulanka, or a reference to it being synonymous with Wola Kulońska?
Thanks!
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

I had no luck finding Kulanka on any map nor was I able to locate a listing for the place in the Słownik geograficzny even substituting letters, like ó for u. I located Wola Kulońska on the 1907 map of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) with the spelling Wola Kolanska (#40 powiat Bilgorajski) but had no success in the Słownik geograficzny, again searching with alternate similar sounding letters. The bottom line is that I can’t answer your questions. However, I do have a suggestion. David Gilly’s 1803 map of South Prussia https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html should include the area around and south of Bilgoraj since from 1795 until 1807 South Prussia covered the territory up to the northern border of the Austrian Partition (Galicia). The Gilly map is slightly skewed in that true north is not at the top of the pages of the map. My best guess is that the area of interest to you should be either in section B-IV or C-IV of the Gilly Map. Also, a word of caution, place names sometimes are in their German version rather than their Polish form.

A possibility which occurs to me is that Kulanka was a small village which later became part of a larger village. However there is no proof that it became part of Wola Kulońska.

Sorry that I can’t be of more help.

Good luck with the quest.

Dave


Hi Dave,
Thanks so much for looking into it, and for the link to the Gilly map. Your point is well taken that I have to be flexible about the spelling of the village, since either it morphed over time or else it was interpreted differently by different mapmakers, who were, after all, making maps in various languages. Given the proximity of these towns to the Galician border, I have also been spending time looking through the Gesher collection of maps. I may yet find my answer.
Then again, there's always gardening!
All the best,
Sophia


G'day Sophia
I had a quick look at one of the scans marked as from Kulanka and see that it is in Russian - could it be a transcription/translation issue? I only saw the village in the column - not sure if the village is mentioned within the actual record itself. It may pay to have one translated to confirm?

Cheers
Ted
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TedMack



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Location: Sydney, Australia

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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:23 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

You know how sometimes things just fall into place and you stumble upon a Eureka moment ,well I think I have one in the attached. I was looking for my 4xGGF Grzegorz Paprzycki's marriage record to my 4xGGM Rozalia when I came across these records.

Grzegorz Paprzycki appears to be mentioned in a few of these records, as is what appears to be his brother and others. I also think that Grzegorz Paprzycki's marriage record to possibly an earlier wife is also listed. I was hoping you could provide some insight into why he is mentioned and a translation of the 2 marriage records.

On page 1 Grzegorz Paprzycki is mentioned in the marriage records from Lubinia Mała in 1787 & 1788, I presume as a witness although the 1788 marriage also lists a Luca Paprzycki and I was hoping you could provide the gist of what is written about them. At the bottom of page 1 is what I believe is Grzegorz Paprzycki's marriage record, can you please translate this.

On page 2 the second marriage in Lubinia Mała appears to be Gregorz's brother Jozef (witness appears to be Gregorz's new wife) if you also translate this one please. Jozef also appears in the next marriage record I think as a witness.

I know that is asking a lot but if you provide this at your leisure it is most appreciated.

Thanks
Ted



Marriage Grzegorz Paprzycki 1788 (2).jpg
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:43 am      Post subject:
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TedMack wrote:
Sophia wrote:
dnowicki wrote:
Sophia wrote:
Hi Dave,
This is not a Latin translation question, but I knew that you would find it if I placed it here. I am hoping that your map-finding skills could be brought to bear on a question of mine. My question is, where is the village of Kulanka?
The reason that I ask is that I can see it on an index but I cannot find it on a map, neither a current-day map nor an historical map. Let’s start with the index. If you go to this link:
http://regestry.lubgens.eu/news.php
Use the following search criteria:
For Parafia, Potok Górny
For Nazwisko, Borek
For the range of years, 1870-1890.
In the resulting table of records, you can see in the birth/baptism section that the indexer has included the name of the village as well as the names of the parents. Some of the villages are simple to find, such as Dąbrówka and Lipiny Dolny, but I cannot find Kulanka. What I do see on both old and current maps is Wola Kulońska but I am unsure whether this is the same place.
Are you able to find a map that shows Kulanka, or a reference to it being synonymous with Wola Kulońska?
Thanks!
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

I had no luck finding Kulanka on any map nor was I able to locate a listing for the place in the Słownik geograficzny even substituting letters, like ó for u. I located Wola Kulońska on the 1907 map of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) with the spelling Wola Kolanska (#40 powiat Bilgorajski) but had no success in the Słownik geograficzny, again searching with alternate similar sounding letters. The bottom line is that I can’t answer your questions. However, I do have a suggestion. David Gilly’s 1803 map of South Prussia https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html should include the area around and south of Bilgoraj since from 1795 until 1807 South Prussia covered the territory up to the northern border of the Austrian Partition (Galicia). The Gilly map is slightly skewed in that true north is not at the top of the pages of the map. My best guess is that the area of interest to you should be either in section B-IV or C-IV of the Gilly Map. Also, a word of caution, place names sometimes are in their German version rather than their Polish form.

A possibility which occurs to me is that Kulanka was a small village which later became part of a larger village. However there is no proof that it became part of Wola Kulońska.

Sorry that I can’t be of more help.

Good luck with the quest.

Dave


Hi Dave,
Thanks so much for looking into it, and for the link to the Gilly map. Your point is well taken that I have to be flexible about the spelling of the village, since either it morphed over time or else it was interpreted differently by different mapmakers, who were, after all, making maps in various languages. Given the proximity of these towns to the Galician border, I have also been spending time looking through the Gesher collection of maps. I may yet find my answer.
Then again, there's always gardening!
All the best,
Sophia


G'day Sophia
I had a quick look at one of the scans marked as from Kulanka and see that it is in Russian - could it be a transcription/translation issue? I only saw the village in the column - not sure if the village is mentioned within the actual record itself. It may pay to have one translated to confirm?

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,
Thanks very much for looking! Your hypothesis is interesting. I may follow your advice and ask Marcel to look at one. However, I will add a bit more info that I discovered last night. On Szukajwarchiwach they have RC records for Potok Gorny in two sets. One is from 1871-1875 and the other is 1876-1920. In their descriptions, they provide the names of the villages that belonged to the parish, and I quote:

Akta stanu cywilnego Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej w Potoku Górnym

1871-1875:
Siedziba parafii: Potok Górny (Potok Ordynacki), diecezja lubelska, dekanat biłgorajski Kościół p.w. św. Jana Chrzciciela Miejscowości należące do parafii: Dąbrówka, Gózd Lipiński, Jedlinki, Kulanka, Kulna (Kulno), Lipiny Górne i Dolne, Łazy, Naklik, Potok, Sigiełki, Szyszków, Zagródki

1876-1920:
Siedziba parafii: Potok Górny; diecezja przemyska (dekanat tarnogrodzki), później diecezja lubelska (dekanat tarnogrodzki); Powiat biłgorajski gmina Potok Górny; Wezwanie: św. Jana Chrzciciela; Rok powstania: 1581 rok; Miejscowości należące do parafii: Dąbrówka, Gózd Lipiński, Jedlinki, Kulno, Lipiny, Naklik, Potok Górny, Potok Słoboda, Potok Plebański, Szyszków, Wola Kulańska, Zagródki, Zagrody Naklickie.

Comparing the two lists gives me the impression that either Kulanka, Łazy and Sigielki were re-assigned to a different parish around 1875-6, or were merged into other villages, or had their names changed. Would you agree?

Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:18 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
TedMack wrote:
Sophia wrote:
dnowicki wrote:
Sophia wrote:
Hi Dave,
This is not a Latin translation question, but I knew that you would find it if I placed it here. I am hoping that your map-finding skills could be brought to bear on a question of mine. My question is, where is the village of Kulanka?
The reason that I ask is that I can see it on an index but I cannot find it on a map, neither a current-day map nor an historical map. Let’s start with the index. If you go to this link:
http://regestry.lubgens.eu/news.php
Use the following search criteria:
For Parafia, Potok Górny
For Nazwisko, Borek
For the range of years, 1870-1890.
In the resulting table of records, you can see in the birth/baptism section that the indexer has included the name of the village as well as the names of the parents. Some of the villages are simple to find, such as Dąbrówka and Lipiny Dolny, but I cannot find Kulanka. What I do see on both old and current maps is Wola Kulońska but I am unsure whether this is the same place.
Are you able to find a map that shows Kulanka, or a reference to it being synonymous with Wola Kulońska?
Thanks!
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

I had no luck finding Kulanka on any map nor was I able to locate a listing for the place in the Słownik geograficzny even substituting letters, like ó for u. I located Wola Kulońska on the 1907 map of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) with the spelling Wola Kolanska (#40 powiat Bilgorajski) but had no success in the Słownik geograficzny, again searching with alternate similar sounding letters. The bottom line is that I can’t answer your questions. However, I do have a suggestion. David Gilly’s 1803 map of South Prussia https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html should include the area around and south of Bilgoraj since from 1795 until 1807 South Prussia covered the territory up to the northern border of the Austrian Partition (Galicia). The Gilly map is slightly skewed in that true north is not at the top of the pages of the map. My best guess is that the area of interest to you should be either in section B-IV or C-IV of the Gilly Map. Also, a word of caution, place names sometimes are in their German version rather than their Polish form.

A possibility which occurs to me is that Kulanka was a small village which later became part of a larger village. However there is no proof that it became part of Wola Kulońska.

Sorry that I can’t be of more help.

Good luck with the quest.

Dave


Hi Dave,
Thanks so much for looking into it, and for the link to the Gilly map. Your point is well taken that I have to be flexible about the spelling of the village, since either it morphed over time or else it was interpreted differently by different mapmakers, who were, after all, making maps in various languages. Given the proximity of these towns to the Galician border, I have also been spending time looking through the Gesher collection of maps. I may yet find my answer.
Then again, there's always gardening!
All the best,
Sophia


G'day Sophia
I had a quick look at one of the scans marked as from Kulanka and see that it is in Russian - could it be a transcription/translation issue? I only saw the village in the column - not sure if the village is mentioned within the actual record itself. It may pay to have one translated to confirm?

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,
Thanks very much for looking! Your hypothesis is interesting. I may follow your advice and ask Marcel to look at one. However, I will add a bit more info that I discovered last night. On Szukajwarchiwach they have RC records for Potok Gorny in two sets. One is from 1871-1875 and the other is 1876-1920. In their descriptions, they provide the names of the villages that belonged to the parish, and I quote:

Akta stanu cywilnego Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej w Potoku Górnym

1871-1875:
Siedziba parafii: Potok Górny (Potok Ordynacki), diecezja lubelska, dekanat biłgorajski Kościół p.w. św. Jana Chrzciciela Miejscowości należące do parafii: Dąbrówka, Gózd Lipiński, Jedlinki, Kulanka, Kulna (Kulno), Lipiny Górne i Dolne, Łazy, Naklik, Potok, Sigiełki, Szyszków, Zagródki

1876-1920:
Siedziba parafii: Potok Górny; diecezja przemyska (dekanat tarnogrodzki), później diecezja lubelska (dekanat tarnogrodzki); Powiat biłgorajski gmina Potok Górny; Wezwanie: św. Jana Chrzciciela; Rok powstania: 1581 rok; Miejscowości należące do parafii: Dąbrówka, Gózd Lipiński, Jedlinki, Kulno, Lipiny, Naklik, Potok Górny, Potok Słoboda, Potok Plebański, Szyszków, Wola Kulańska, Zagródki, Zagrody Naklickie.

Comparing the two lists gives me the impression that either Kulanka, Łazy and Sigielki were re-assigned to a different parish around 1875-6, or were merged into other villages, or had their names changed. Would you agree?

Sophia


Hi Sophia & Ted,

Rain keeps a young gardener in the house while there is much planting to be done and thus he has some time for genealogical playtime. There is no question that the Russian records name the village as Kulanka—the handwriting on the scans is very clear and the Cyrillic letters spell out Kulanka. Also, the indexed records (without scans) in Polish also list the village with the same spelling (in Roman letters, of course). Borek indexed records with Kulanka appear from 1857 to at least 1893. There are occasions during the same decade when both Kulanka and Wola Kulańska appear in the index. What I find strange is that there is no entry for Kulanka in the Słownik geograficzny although the village existed during the period when the volumes of the Słownik were being published. I conclude that Kulanka remained part of the same parish until at least 1893.

Good luck figuring out the puzzle.

Dave, who would rather be “in horto”
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:29 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

You know how sometimes things just fall into place and you stumble upon a Eureka moment ,well I think I have one in the attached. I was looking for my 4xGGF Grzegorz Paprzycki's marriage record to my 4xGGM Rozalia when I came across these records.

Grzegorz Paprzycki appears to be mentioned in a few of these records, as is what appears to be his brother and others. I also think that Grzegorz Paprzycki's marriage record to possibly an earlier wife is also listed. I was hoping you could provide some insight into why he is mentioned and a translation of the 2 marriage records.

On page 1 Grzegorz Paprzycki is mentioned in the marriage records from Lubinia Mała in 1787 & 1788, I presume as a witness although the 1788 marriage also lists a Luca Paprzycki and I was hoping you could provide the gist of what is written about them. At the bottom of page 1 is what I believe is Grzegorz Paprzycki's marriage record, can you please translate this.

On page 2 the second marriage in Lubinia Mała appears to be Gregorz's brother Jozef (witness appears to be Gregorz's new wife) if you also translate this one please. Jozef also appears in the next marriage record I think as a witness.

I know that is asking a lot but if you provide this at your leisure it is most appreciated.

Thanks
Ted


Hi Ted,

None of the marriage records are for Grzegorz. You are correct that he appears in several but always as a groomsman and never as a groom. (Just like the old maid who was always a bridesmaid and never a bride (ha, ha). The info in one record indicates that Grzegorz Papricki (the same as Grzegorz Paprzycki ?) married prior to Sept. 22, 1788. Keep in mind that since weddings usually took place in the parish of the bride and thus if you can’t find the record in the parish where he lived during the marriage it may be necessary to search in neighboring parishes. One of the nice features of the Gilly map https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html is that it shows villages with a parish church with a small cross above the location of the village.

A summary of the data from the 1788 & 1789 marriages follows.

Keep on researching and in the meantime I'll be planting when the rain stops,

Dave

Date of Wedding: 22 September, 1788
Groom & Bride: Karol Kuber & Maryanna Luzkowska
Witnesses: Grzegorz Papricki with his consort & Łukasz Paprzycki with his wife, both millers—one from Lubinia Mała and the other from Lubinia Wielka

Date of Wedding: 28 October, 1788
Groom & Bride: No names recorded. The priest who wrote the entry states that the wedding took place while the local curate was seriously ill & thus the lack of names.
Witnesses to this wedding: Grzegorz Paprzycki & Jan Paprzycki, full brothers (Germani)* from Lubinia.

Note: germanus is the Latin term for full brothers, i.e. both born of the same mother and father as opposed to half brothers who only have one parent in common.

Date of wedding: 2 February, 1789
Groom & Bride: Józef Paprzycki, a bachelor from Lubinia Wielka, & Maryanna Kumoriąka, a maiden from Lubinia Mała
Witnesses: Wałenty Walendowski & Jan Paprzycki, both from Lubinia Mała
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:09 pm      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:


Hi Sophia & Ted,

Rain keeps a young gardener in the house while there is much planting to be done and thus he has some time for genealogical playtime. There is no question that the Russian records name the village as Kulanka—the handwriting on the scans is very clear and the Cyrillic letters spell out Kulanka. Also, the indexed records (without scans) in Polish also list the village with the same spelling (in Roman letters, of course). Borek indexed records with Kulanka appear from 1857 to at least 1893. There are occasions during the same decade when both Kulanka and Wola Kulańska appear in the index. What I find strange is that there is no entry for Kulanka in the Słownik geograficzny although the village existed during the period when the volumes of the Słownik were being published. I conclude that Kulanka remained part of the same parish until at least 1893.

Good luck figuring out the puzzle.

Dave, who would rather be “in horto”


Hi Dave,
Would the abbreviation "zob." mean something like "see" (as in, "refer to") in the following usage?

Kulonka zob. Wola Kulońska

I found it in a "snippet view" of Prof. Rymut's book, "Nazwy miejscowe Polski: historia, pochodzenie, zmiany." Perhaps this link to the snippet will work for you:

https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Nazwy_miejscowe_Polski/-i8ZAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22wola+kulonska%22&dq=%22wola+kulonska%22&printsec=frontcover

Gardens need rain....

Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:15 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:


Hi Dave,
Would the abbreviation "zob." mean something like "see" (as in, "refer to") in the following usage?

Kulonka zob. Wola Kulońska

I found it in a "snippet view" of Prof. Rymut's book, "Nazwy miejscowe Polski: historia, pochodzenie, zmiany." Perhaps this link to the snippet will work for you:

https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Nazwy_miejscowe_Polski/-i8ZAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22wola+kulonska%22&dq=%22wola+kulonska%22&printsec=frontcover

Gardens need rain....

Sophia


Hi Sophia,

It is still raining so since I can’t play outside and the short answer is Yes. The longer answer is that it is the abbreviation of the imperative singular of the verb to see/to look at—zobacz. The Latin equivalent is “vide” abbreviated “vid”.

Looks like you found the key to unlock the mystery.

I’d still rather be planting in the garden like the seal of the City of Chicago says “Urbs in Horto” (or in the case of urban gardeners, “Hortus in Urbe”. And yes the rain will make the garden grow but the plants need to be in the ground first.

I think that I'll head out to the grocery store to get some ice cream for later, which, as Ennius wrote, makes vita vitalis—it is the elixir of life, as history teaches us.

Congrats!

Dave
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:17 pm      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:

Hi Sophia,

It is still raining so since I can’t play outside and the short answer is Yes. The longer answer is that it is the abbreviation of the imperative singular of the verb to see/to look at—zobacz. The Latin equivalent is “vide” abbreviated “vid”.

Looks like you found the key to unlock the mystery.

I’d still rather be planting in the garden like the seal of the City of Chicago says “Urbs in Horto” (or in the case of urban gardeners, “Hortus in Urbe”. And yes the rain will make the garden grow but the plants need to be in the ground first.

I think that I'll head out to the grocery store to get some ice cream for later, which, as Ennius wrote, makes vita vitalis—it is the elixir of life, as history teaches us.

Congrats!

Dave


Hi Dave,
I see what you did there! You found a way to work some Latin lessons into your reply to my not-really-a-Latin-translation query. Nice!
I am attaching a screenshot that may explain why it was so difficult to find in Slownik. Have I got this right? Its spelling changed a few times over the years?
Thanks for your help. I wish you good ice cream today, and better weather tomorrow.
Sophia



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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:43 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:


Hi Dave,
I see what you did there! You found a way to work some Latin lessons into your reply to my not-really-a-Latin-translation query. Nice!
I am attaching a screenshot that may explain why it was so difficult to find in Slownik. Have I got this right? Its spelling changed a few times over the years?
Thanks for your help. I wish you good ice cream today, and better weather tomorrow.
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

You’ve got it. Mystery solved. Here is a link to Kulno & Kulońska Wólka in Tom IV as mentioned in your screenshot http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_IV/867

A fellow can never go wrong with a nice bowl of good chocolate ice cream to top off a day of fun. Now I can go to sleep wholly surfeited.

Dave
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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 7:42 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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Hi Ted,

None of the marriage records are for Grzegorz. You are correct that he appears in several but always as a groomsman and never as a groom. (Just like the old maid who was always a bridesmaid and never a bride (ha, ha). The info in one record indicates that Grzegorz Papricki (the same as Grzegorz Paprzycki ?) married prior to Sept. 22, 1788. Keep in mind that since weddings usually took place in the parish of the bride and thus if you can’t find the record in the parish where he lived during the marriage it may be necessary to search in neighboring parishes. One of the nice features of the Gilly map https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html is that it shows villages with a parish church with a small cross above the location of the village.

A summary of the data from the 1788 & 1789 marriages follows.

Keep on researching and in the meantime I'll be planting when the rain stops,

Dave


Thanks Dave - interesting, I've just looked at the Baptism records and Grzegorz & Rozalia appear in nearly every third Baptism record for their village as Godparents, I've found a few of their own children but need to do it again as all I could see was there names in so many records. I'll try and make sure I have the records correct before I ask for translations.

Cheers
Ted
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Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:51 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
Hi Ted,



Thanks Dave - interesting, I've just looked at the Baptism records and Grzegorz & Rozalia appear in nearly every third Baptism record for their village as Godparents, I've found a few of their own children but need to do it again as all I could see was there names in so many records. I'll try and make sure I have the records correct before I ask for translations.

Cheers
Ted


G'day Dave

Hope the weather has improved and you've been able to get the seedlings planted. Wish our weather was the same here - been raining all year so far and the ground is too wet to dig over - we have exceeded the annual rainfall by Easter - 1.5 metres of rain so far. Makes for poor gardening and heavy weed growth.

Anyway, I 've found that as Grzegorz was always the groomsman and never the groom that the same can not be said for Baptisms - Grzegorz was Godfather to no less than 28 & Rozalia no less than 21. They were also very productive in their own right with at least 12 children (from 1785 to 1807) and possibly a 13th for Grzegorz with a later wife(?).

I'll send through the first 3 children that I've found for translation please when you have time. I'll only send the cropped records as they are usually short 2 or 3 lines.

Cheers

Ted



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