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tubson



Joined: 27 May 2022
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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 1:31 pm      Post subject: Nowacki / Skoczynska
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I'm trying to find information on relatives of Jacobus / Joseph Nowacki and Catharina Skoczynska. They're listed on the Poznan project as being married on 20 Nov 1860, but there's no information on their parents and I can't find anything in the Poznan project for other siblings. They were married in Popowo Koscielne, Wielkopolskie. I find it odd that neither one of them had siblings who were married in the Poznan region. Is there any explanation for why I can't find siblings' marriages for either person? The marriage record notes Joseph had judicial consent and Catharina had parental consent, and it doesn't mention either one being a widow. Would that matter at all? None of the three witnesses on the marriage record (all male) share a last name with either spouse too.
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zefir454



Joined: 29 Aug 2013
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Location: Smolno Wielkie, Poland

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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 4:43 pm      Post subject:
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zefir454



Joined: 29 Aug 2013
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Location: Smolno Wielkie, Poland

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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 4:46 pm      Post subject: Re: Nowacki / Skoczynska
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tubson wrote:
I'm trying to find information on relatives of Jacobus / Joseph Nowacki and Catharina Skoczynska. They're listed on the Poznan project as being married on 20 Nov 1860, but there's no information on their parents and I can't find anything in the Poznan project for other siblings. They were married in Popowo Koscielne, Wielkopolskie. I find it odd that neither one of them had siblings who were married in the Poznan region. Is there any explanation for why I can't find siblings' marriages for either person? The marriage record notes Joseph had judicial consent and Catharina had parental consent, and it doesn't mention either one being a widow. Would that matter at all? None of the three witnesses on the marriage record (all male) share a last name with either spouse too.


In fact, there is a problem because there is no parental information. Due to the fact that the wedding took place in the bride's parish, it is easy to find her birth certificate. And it was so. Well, Katarzyna Skoczyńska was born on September 29, 1840 in Popowo as the daughter of Wawrzyniec (Laurentius) Skoczyński, a colonist, and Anna Rzuchcianka, the godparents were the colonists: Jakub Skoczyński and Anna Ptak. The problem will be with the groom, i.e. Józef Nowacki. If he did not come from the same parish, it will be difficult to find him.
Here is her birth certificate: third entry from the top.
Jozef

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tubson



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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 5:13 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you! That's very helpful. Is it possible this is the birth certificate for Jozef Nowacki (fourth entry from the bottom)? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXN-K3QG-W?i=327&cc=4116415&cat=823723&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6FCJ-K3PM

Without any information from the marriage certificate, I'm not sure how confident I can be that this is the same person.
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zefir454



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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 5:20 pm      Post subject:
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I cannot confirm this. You showed the birth certificate of Jakub Nowacki, son of Józef. The problem is that you are not looking for Jakub, but Józef Nowacki.
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 5:37 pm      Post subject: Re: Nowacki / Skoczynska
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tubson wrote:
I'm trying to find information on relatives of Jacobus / Joseph Nowacki and Catharina Skoczynska. They're listed on the Poznan project as being married on 20 Nov 1860, but there's no information on their parents and I can't find anything in the Poznan project for other siblings. They were married in Popowo Koscielne, Wielkopolskie. I find it odd that neither one of them had siblings who were married in the Poznan region. Is there any explanation for why I can't find siblings' marriages for either person? The marriage record notes Joseph had judicial consent and Catharina had parental consent, and it doesn't mention either one being a widow. Would that matter at all? None of the three witnesses on the marriage record (all male) share a last name with either spouse too.


Hi,
Do you know the names of the spouses’ parents from another source? If not, Katarzyna’s parents could very well be Wawrzyniec Skoczyński and Anna Kuchcianka. Catholic weddings ordinarily took place in the parish of the bride and working from the premise that her parents lived in Popowo when she was born there is a birth & baptism record for a Katarzyna Skoczyńska from Popowo which fits her age. She was born on 29 Sept. 1840. Here is the link: B&B Katarzyna: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXN-K3QL-3?i=335&cc=4116415&cat=823723
If those indeed are her parents, they married in Popowo on 12 Nov. 1837. Marriage record link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXN-K3QJ-W?i=365&cc=4116415&cat=823723
The same set of parents had a daughter named Maryanna born on 29 August, 1838. Link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXN-K3QL-Y?i=328&cc=4116415&cat=823723 Kuchcianka is an old feminine form of the surname Kuchata.
If all this holds true, it would seem that they were on the typical another child every two years plan, which would provide a logical time frame to search for other siblings of Katarzyna.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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tubson



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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 10:45 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you both. Unfortunately, I don't have the spouses' parents names from any other sources. I've been relying on the Poznan project's searchable database to find parents for ancestors. Looking through the parish records on familysearch and following the same logic that Anna Kuchcianka was likely born in Popowo, would this be a plausible birth record for Anna?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FCJ-81J8

I'm not very familiar with how much spelling of names in these records can vary, so unsure if that's too far off to be plausible. Looking at the marriage record for Laurentius and Anna, it seems like Laurentius is from the parish of Bieskowo - am I reading that right?
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tubson



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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 11:36 pm      Post subject:
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@Jozef - for the church's marriage record of Jozef's and Catharina's daughter, Ludwika, it lists Jozef's name as Jacob. The civil marriage record lists his name as Jozef, however. Would it be possible to have a Latin name used in church records that differs from civil documents?

The last entry on this page is for Ludwika's marriage and it lists her father as Jacob, while he's listed as Jozef on the civil marriage certificate.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FCC-QXXK
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:10 am      Post subject:
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tubson wrote:
Thank you both. Unfortunately, I don't have the spouses' parents names from any other sources. I've been relying on the Poznan project's searchable database to find parents for ancestors. Looking through the parish records on familysearch and following the same logic that Anna Kuchcianka was likely born in Popowo, would this be a plausible birth record for Anna?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FCJ-81J8

I'm not very familiar with how much spelling of names in these records can vary, so unsure if that's too far off to be plausible. Looking at the marriage record for Laurentius and Anna, it seems like Laurentius is from the parish of Bieskowo - am I reading that right?


Hi,

Wawrzyniec (Latin: Laurentius; English: Lawrence) was a bachelor from the village of Brzeskowo, which is near Popowo to the south. Brzeskowo belonged to the parish of Raczkowo. He was living there at the time of the marriage and may or may not have been born there. If his parents were deceased at the time of the marriage he may have been living there simply because that was where he found work. The Słownik geograficzny (Link: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/?find_in=fulltext&volume_id=1&find_text=brzeskowo&search_volume=all&x=44&y=10 ) is a valuable resource for info about places, especially during the second half of the 19th Century. Brzeskowo was a small village which during the late 19th Century had 4 houses, 42 inhabitants of whom 11 were Protestants and 31 were Catholics and 26 were illiterate.

Surnames are entered in Latin records in their vernacular form (Polish). Since Polish, like Latin, is an inflected language the case endings of the surnames follow the rules of Polish grammar. The bottom line is that Kuchtów and Kuchta and Kuchianka are all the same name. Thus the record you found is likely that of Anna KuchiankaThe Nominative Singular Masculine of the surname is Kuchta.

This is probably the marriage record of the parents of Anna: Catholic parish Popowo Kościelne [Kirchen Popowo]
entry 7 / 1812
• Joannes Kuchta 100%
• Marianna ??
Since 1800 is the first year for indexed records on the Poznan Project for research earlier than 1800 it is necessary to read through the parish metrical books using the good old “seek and find” method.
A good resource to get the lay of the land in the late 18th Century and the first years of the 19th Century is David Gilly’s map of South Prussia https://www.sggee.org/research/gilly_maps/south_prussia_map.html
You would be interested in section B1. Since Brzeskowo does not appear on the map it probably means that the village did not exist in 1800.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave
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