Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:06 pm
Post subject: Help Translating and Interpreting a Marriage Record?
TYIA! _________________ Elizabeth
Last edited by eszkirp on Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: Help Translating and Interpreting a Marriage Record?
eszkirp wrote: | Hello,
I have been looking for my great-grandmother, Julia Szkirpan, maiden name Kaszczyk, for some time. I found her marriage record to my great-grandfather, Dymtro Szkirpan, married in Malastow, Poland in 1904.
Might anyone be able to help me interpret/translate Julia's demographic information and the note in Cyrillic on their marriage record? I have gathered that her name at marriage was Julianna Ruskyno, the widow of Lucam Rusynko, a farmer. I can see that her father's name is Thomae, but am having trouble reading her mother's name and can't make any sense on whether a birth location was also recorded for Julianna.
Thank you in advance! |
Hi Elizabeth,
Well done, finding her marriage record. As you know, it contains both Latin and Russian writing, and you might have a better chance of getting translation questions answered if you posted it in the threads on this forum that are specific to Latin translations and Russian translations.
Having said that, let me help you out a little bit. In the main part of the form, where the given names are written in Latin, that "Lucam" that you see has an ending change on it for grammatical reasons, so it is Lucas (Latin) / Luke (English) / Lukasz (Polish) and "Thomae" is Thomas (English) / Tomasz (Polish). The mother's name is shown as "Annae" which is Anna (English and Polish). Anna's maiden name is Boncariwsky. You see that name a second time, in the column for witnesses, there is the farmer Joannes (John, Jan) Boncariwsky. Now, if you look at the bottom right corner, you see Jan Boncariwsky's name written in Cyrillic (kind of looks like "Jban" which is Iwan which is Joannes/John/Jan, see it there?). Above his name is Cyrillic for Antoni Walewsky, the other witness. If this marriage record is from a "duplicate" church book, then the two names in the lower right corner might have been signatures of the witnesses, in the original document.
Hope this helps. Again, I'd suggest re-posting in the other two threads so you can get clarity on Julianna's place of birth.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:38 am
Post subject:
From what I see is that all members of brides' family including Anna are from same location, Ropuch (?)
Russian text meaning is - father of bride gives permission for his underage daughter to marry Dmytro, this is done with 2 witnesses as stated.
I don't know why it's called underage when she is 20 years old, but this word cannot be interpreted differently.
Mike
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:56 am
Post subject:
Mvpr7 wrote: | From what I see is that all members of brides' family including Anna are from same location, Ropuch (?)
Russian text meaning is - father of bride gives permission for his underage daughter to marry Dmytro, this is done with 2 witnesses as stated.
I don't know why it's called underage when she is 20 years old, but this word cannot be interpreted differently.
Mike |
Hi all,
The village where her parents lived, which is most likely the place where she was born, is entered as Ropyc. Ropyc today is most likely known as Ropica Górna, located 4.5 km to the north of Małastów.
The entry also provides not only the ages of the bride and the groom but also their dates of birth. Sophia has provided a good explanation of the names in the record. Since she was the widow of the late Łukasz/Luke Rusynko I would recommend that you search for her first marriage.
This record is a civil transcript and is in Latin because that was the language the Austrian government decided to use in civil transcripts. Usually the statement in which the father grants permission for the marriage to take place is in Polish but here it is written in Cyrillic. It was just a standard stock statement.
Mike,
The reason she is underage has little to do with age and much more with her being under the authority of her father and mother. When she married for the first time she was emancipated from parental control but evidently after the death of her first husband she moved back to her parental home and thus once again was under the authority of her parents and thus was “underage” in terms of contracting marriage while living under the authority of her parents She was emancipated from parental authority a second time after her marriage to Dymtro Szkirpan. It was a different world back then.
Dave
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2781
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:57 am
Post subject:
Mvpr7 wrote: | From what I see is that all members of brides' family including Anna are from same location, Ropuch (?)
Russian text meaning is - father of bride gives permission for his underage daughter to marry Dmytro, this is done with 2 witnesses as stated.
I don't know why it's called underage when she is 20 years old, but this word cannot be interpreted differently.
Mike |
Hi all,
The village where her parents lived, which is most likely the place where she was born, is entered as Ropyc. Ropyc today is most likely known as Ropica Górna, located 4.5 km to the north of Małastów.
The entry also provides not only the ages of the bride and the groom but also their dates of birth. Sophia has provided a good explanation of the names in the record. Since she was the widow of the late Łukasz/Luke Rusynko I would recommend that you search for her first marriage.
This record is a civil transcript and is in Latin because that was the language the Austrian government decided to use in civil transcripts. Usually the statement in which the father grants permission for the marriage to take place is in Polish but here it is written in Cyrillic. It was just a standard stock statement.
Mike,
The reason she is underage has little to do with age and much more with her being under the authority of her father and mother. When she married for the first time she was emancipated from parental control but evidently after the death of her first husband she moved back to her parental home and thus once again was under the authority of her parents and thus was “underage” in terms of contracting marriage while living under the authority of her parents She was emancipated from parental authority a second time after her marriage to Dymtro Szkirpan. It was a different world back then.
Dave
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:55 am
Post subject:
This is great! Now you don't have to re-post your question on the Latin translations and Russian translations threads. All the help you need came right to you.
Best wishes to everyone for a healthy happy New Year!
Sophia
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:59 pm
Post subject: Thank you all!
Hi all! I apologize for missing these messages until just now. They were lost in the bustle of the last few weeks. I appreciate everyone's help in interpreting this record. Yes, Julia was from Ropica, as was the Rusynko family, which is quite close to Malastow, where Dymtro was living. I was unaware of her first marriage and appreciate the brief summaries of the record information. They will do for my purposes! Again, thank you all for your help! _________________ Elizabeth
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