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Trish



Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 167

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:55 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Trish,
In answer to your question about the problems accessing szukajwarchiwach, there is another thread here on the forum that will explain that:
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=18831
All the best,
Sophia


Hi Sophia,
Thank you for sharing the link letting me know that szukajwarchiwach is still down. I was able to get in a while ago, and now I cannot even get in with using VPN. I hope it comes back soon.

Thank you for all your help! Have a wonderful day!
Trish
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TedMack



Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 412
Location: Sydney, Australia

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:41 am      Post subject:
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Trish wrote:
Sophia wrote:
Hi Trish,
In answer to your question about the problems accessing szukajwarchiwach, there is another thread here on the forum that will explain that:
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=18831
All the best,
Sophia


Hi Sophia,
Thank you for sharing the link letting me know that szukajwarchiwach is still down. I was able to get in a while ago, and now I cannot even get in with using VPN. I hope it comes back soon.

Thank you for all your help! Have a wonderful day!
Trish


G'day Trish

I find that accessing szukajwarchiwach requires a bit of trial and error. Usually it requires me to close the browser and turn the VPN on and off a couple of times if it doesn't work at first. Good luck.

Cheers
Ted
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Trish



Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 167

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:07 am      Post subject:
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Trish

I find that accessing szukajwarchiwach requires a bit of trial and error. Usually it requires me to close the browser and turn the VPN on and off a couple of times if it doesn't work at first. Good luck.

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,
I didn't have a problem before until recently. I use to be able to get in with the VPN on. I'll try your directions to see if I can get into szukajwarchiwach website. Thank you for the advice.

Have a great day!
Trish
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kimboley



Joined: 11 Jan 2023
Replies: 8
Location: USA

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:26 pm      Post subject:
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I have posted several replies, I appreciate all the work you have both done for me, for everybody. I Don't recall off the top of my head, what all I wrote, I am going to go thru the post and review everything real quick. (and check if this posts)

I think our documents show they arrived at different ports? I will go review..

darn it, somehow this is in the wrong thread. Yes, I am having issues..
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kimboley



Joined: 11 Jan 2023
Replies: 8
Location: USA

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:42 pm      Post subject:
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I believe her document for travel says she departed from Bremen on the Grosser, Stanislaw petition for naturalization document says departed from Antwarp on the Zeeland.
I understand that they could not read or write (3rd grade for him) so this could account for some of the differences in dates due to errors?
My family had March 14, 1889 as his birthday. The naturalization document says May 13th 1891, on the polish site, I think it said May 15 1891. I would have thought he would have used his correct birthday for his life time, I think the grave says March 14. Going by memory, I may be wrong..

I don't know why my stuff not posting. Must be doing something incorrectly.

But, thank you for all your help.

I was really wanting info on the parents of Stanislaw and Juliana, I guess this is why location of birth and dates are so important. (we also have a different date of birth for Juliana, Nov 16, 1888
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Sophia
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Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 862

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:19 am      Post subject:
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kimboley wrote:
I believe her document for travel says she departed from Bremen on the Grosser, Stanislaw petition for naturalization document says departed from Antwarp on the Zeeland.
I understand that they could not read or write (3rd grade for him) so this could account for some of the differences in dates due to errors?
My family had March 14, 1889 as his birthday. The naturalization document says May 13th 1891, on the polish site, I think it said May 15 1891. I would have thought he would have used his correct birthday for his life time, I think the grave says March 14. Going by memory, I may be wrong..

I don't know why my stuff not posting. Must be doing something incorrectly.

But, thank you for all your help.

I was really wanting info on the parents of Stanislaw and Juliana, I guess this is why location of birth and dates are so important. (we also have a different date of birth for Juliana, Nov 16, 1888



Hi Kimboley,
Sorry to learn that you are having difficulty with posting. Good that you persisted!
The reason that I pointed out the notation of Juliana being Ruthenian has to do with religion. Do you know if she was Roman Catholic, or Greek Catholic? That would help determine if this is really her manifest, and more importantly it will be necessary for finding her birth record in Poland because you need to know which church's books to look at. If she was Greek Catholic, that would fit with Ruthenian. Do you know Stanislaw's religion?
As for the dates, yes, that is not unusual for some discrepancies in different records showing different birth dates. It just adds to the task of finding the birth record, as you noted.
Sophia

Trish,
I am wondering whether we've really got the correct manifest for Stanislaw. There is no marking by his name to correspond with his naturalization. If you look at Stanislaw's manifest, in the column for "calling or occupation," you see for the person on Line 1 and the person on Line 20 there is a number added, and a date, which have nothing to do with occupation. These are numbers that relate to naturalization. When you were looking for Wojtowicz manifests, was there another one that would have been a possible match for Stanislaw?
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2610
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:16 am      Post subject:
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[quote="Sophia"]
kimboley wrote:
I believe her document for travel says she departed from Bremen on the Grosser, Stanislaw petition for naturalization document says departed from Antwarp on the Zeeland.
I understand that they could not read or write (3rd grade for him) so this could account for some of the differences in dates due to errors?
My family had March 14, 1889 as his birthday. The naturalization document says May 13th 1891, on the polish site, I think it said May 15 1891. I would have thought he would have used his correct birthday for his life time, I think the grave says March 14. Going by memory, I may be wrong..

I don't know why my stuff not posting. Must be doing something incorrectly.

But, thank you for all your help.

I was really wanting info on the parents of Stanislaw and Juliana, I guess this is why location of birth and dates are so important. (we also have a different date of birth for Juliana, Nov 16, 1888



Hi Kimboley, Trish & Sophia,

It seems to me that what is needed in order to navigate through the info which you have located is a compass in order to avoid the perils of Scylla and Charybdis created by so many ifs generated by info overload. My suggestion for a compass is the same one I usually give—look for data in the ecclesiastical marriage record of Stanisław & Julia which can direct and/or confirm your speculations.

The Latin Rite Catholic Polish ethnic parish in Monessen was St. Hyacinth. Findagrave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/118855700/juliana-wojtowicz shows that they are buried in St. Hyacinth Cemetery which makes it likely that they belonged to that parish and likely were married there. The parish has merged with several other parishes to form a new parish. Here is a link to contact info for that parish https://www.dioceseofgreensburg.org/parish-life/directory/Pages/Parish.aspx?LocationID=200KS My suggestion is that Kimboley contact the parish and request an image of their marriage record from the register—not a marriage certificate. Entries in the parish marriage register often contain info which can act as a compass for research on the other side of the pond. Usually the entry will contain the names of the parents of the bride and the groom. That data would be a big help when looking at info on Geneteka.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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Trish



Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 167

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:54 pm      Post subject:
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I was really wanting info on the parents of Stanislaw and Juliana, I guess this is why location of birth and dates are so important. (we also have a different date of birth for Juliana, Nov 16, 1888[/quote]


Quote:
Hi Kimboley,
Sorry to learn that you are having difficulty with posting. Good that you persisted!
The reason that I pointed out the notation of Juliana being Ruthenian has to do with religion. Do you know if she was Roman Catholic, or Greek Catholic? That would help determine if this is really her manifest, and more importantly it will be necessary for finding her birth record in Poland because you need to know which church's books to look at. If she was Greek Catholic, that would fit with Ruthenian. Do you know Stanislaw's religion?
As for the dates, yes, that is not unusual for some discrepancies in different records showing different birth dates. It just adds to the task of finding the birth record, as you noted.
Sophia

Trish,
I am wondering whether we've really got the correct manifest for Stanislaw. There is no marking by his name to correspond with his naturalization. If you look at Stanislaw's manifest, in the column for "calling or occupation," you see for the person on Line 1 and the person on Line 20 there is a number added, and a date, which have nothing to do with occupation. These are numbers that relate to naturalization. When you were looking for Wojtowicz manifests, was there another one that would have been a possible match for Stanislaw?Sophia


Hi Kimboley and Sophia,
Kimboley,
Dates of birth seem to be confusing. Maybe they weren't exactly sure when they were born. My g.g.grandmother was listed as being born in 1872 in several USA records as well as per family members. She really was born in 1860. So I was happy when I found her birth record.

Sophia had asked what religion your family was. If they were Roman Catholic, there is a good chance there might be some clues from the church marriage record. If they were Roman Catholic, I would write to the church and ask for their marriage record and ask for any notation of their parents names and the town they were from. By contacting the church, I was able to find the name of the town for a majority of my ancestors.

I was supplying some USA records for each record could give a clue. Sorry if I was duplicating any of your work.

Sophia,
I checked the ship manifests again. The one I provided is the only one for a Stanislaw Wojtowicz coming from Wydra on the ship Zeeland. I tried various spellings of the surname and various ships, and found nothing that comes close to the year of birth or the town of origin.

I do see on the ship's manifest for Stanislaw that it does not list his naturalization numbers. Maybe they forgot to write the numbers on the manifest.

I'm posting from the Statue of Liberty (Ellis Island) website for Wojtowicz coming from Wydrna. Notice that some say "Galicia, Austria, Russia" next to the town.

https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger-details/czoxMjoiMTAyMzMyMDUwMDk4Ijs=/czo4OiJtYW5pZmVzdCI7

Name - Town - Age - Year of Birth - Year arriving
Wajtowicz, Grzegorz - Wydrno - 27 - 1877-1878 - 1905
Wajtowicz, Stanistaw - Wydrow, Rus. - 18 - 1887-1888 - 1906
Wajtowicz, Teodor - Wydrna, Austria - 25 - 1880-1881 - 1906
Woitowicz, Czeslawa - Wydzna, Austria - 9 - 1903-1904 - 1913
Wojtawicz, Leopold - Wydrna, Austria - 3 - 1912-1913 - 1916
Wojtowics, Damian - Wydrna, Russia - 28 - 1880-1881 - 1909
Wojtowicz, Jan - Wydrna, Galizia - 17 - 1894-1895 - 1912
Wojtowicz, Jan - Wydrna, Austria - 25 - 1884-1885 - 1910
Wojtowicz, Josef - Wydrna - 37 - 1868-1869 - 1906
Wojtowicz, Julia - Wydrna, Galicia - 25 - 1880-1881 - 1906 (Note: This Julia was single.)
Wojtowicz, Teodor - Wydrna - 44 - 1861-1862 - 1906
Wojtowiez, Dam... Wydrua, Austria - 24 - 1885-1886 -1910

I am going to look again for another ship manifest for Julia.

Hope you are enjoying your day!
Trish
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kimboley



Joined: 11 Jan 2023
Replies: 8
Location: USA

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:46 pm      Post subject:
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It is my understanding that they did not get married until they got to the USA. I do not know what religion they were, I will follow up and see if i can find anything in family stuff.
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Trish



Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 167

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:26 am      Post subject:
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[quote="dnowicki"]
Sophia wrote:
kimboley wrote:
I believe her document for travel says she departed from Bremen on the Grosser, Stanislaw petition for naturalization document says departed from Antwarp on the Zeeland.
I understand that they could not read or write (3rd grade for him) so this could account for some of the differences in dates due to errors?
My family had March 14, 1889 as his birthday. The naturalization document says May 13th 1891, on the polish site, I think it said May 15 1891. I would have thought he would have used his correct birthday for his life time, I think the grave says March 14. Going by memory, I may be wrong..

I don't know why my stuff not posting. Must be doing something incorrectly.

But, thank you for all your help.

I was really wanting info on the parents of Stanislaw and Juliana, I guess this is why location of birth and dates are so important. (we also have a different date of birth for Juliana, Nov 16, 1888



Hi Kimboley, Trish & Sophia,

It seems to me that what is needed in order to navigate through the info which you have located is a compass in order to avoid the perils of Scylla and Charybdis created by so many ifs generated by info overload. My suggestion for a compass is the same one I usually give—look for data in the ecclesiastical marriage record of Stanisław & Julia which can direct and/or confirm your speculations.

The Latin Rite Catholic Polish ethnic parish in Monessen was St. Hyacinth. Findagrave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/118855700/juliana-wojtowicz shows that they are buried in St. Hyacinth Cemetery which makes it likely that they belonged to that parish and likely were married there. The parish has merged with several other parishes to form a new parish. Here is a link to contact info for that parish https://www.dioceseofgreensburg.org/parish-life/directory/Pages/Parish.aspx?LocationID=200KS My suggestion is that Kimboley contact the parish and request an image of their marriage record from the register—not a marriage certificate. Entries in the parish marriage register often contain info which can act as a compass for research on the other side of the pond. Usually the entry will contain the names of the parents of the bride and the groom. That data would be a big help when looking at info on Geneteka.

Wishing you success,

Dave


Hi Kimboley, Sophia, and Dave,

Dave gave you very good information listed above about how to obtain the marriage record of Stanislaw and Julia in Pennsylvania. I would follow his advice.

As for the ship manifest I found are the correct manifests for Stanislaw and Julia for they coincide with the names of the towns listed on the Naturalization record of Stanislaw.

One more note, per the 1930 census record, Stanislaw had a brother named Dominik living with him. Dominik was born about 1885. This is another clue for you in helping to find the parents’ names. If you need the census, let me know and I’ll post it.

1930 US Census for Stanislaw Wojtowicz
Name: Steve Wetovich
Birth Year: abt 1889
Gender: Male
Race: White
Age in 1930: 41
Birthplace: Poland
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Home in 1930: Monessen, Westmoreland, Pennsylvania, USA
Map of Home: Monessen, Westmoreland, Pennsylvania
Street Address: Forest Street
Ward of City: 1st pt of
House Number: 429
Dwelling Number: 139
Family Number: 192
Home Owned or Rented: Owned
Home Value: 6000
Radio Set: Yes
Lives on Farm: No
Age at First Marriage: 22
Attended School: No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace: Poland
Mother's Birthplace: Poland
Language Spoken: Polish
Immigration Year: 1906
Naturalization: Naturalized
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Laborer
Industry: Tin Mill
Class of Worker: Wage or salary worker
Employment: Yes
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Steve Wetovich 41 Head
Julia Wetovich 42 Wife
Joe Wetovich 18 Son
Katie Wetovich 17 Daughter
Helen Wetovich 15 Daughter
Mary Wetovich 11 Daughter
Julia Wetovich 8 Daughter
Edward Wetovich 6 Son
John Wetovich 4 Son
Dominic Wetovich 45 Brother

Have a wonderful day!
Trish
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