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galicia seeker



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:11 pm      Post subject: Small translation from a death record
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Thanks, Barb, for the speedy response! This site is remarkable. I also found this - a related possibility related to the economus? Quote: Your Latin Oconomus is exactly the same. The German word is ökonomisch. In earlier times it referred to a simple farmer, farming on land that did not belong to him. As time progressed it came to refer to a farm-type who had become a steward or manager or economist, but that's not what it meant historically. Eventually, instead of working the land, on land that was not his, he became responsible for the farming estate as a manager, which included the planning of an economist.
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:59 pm      Post subject: Re: Small translation from a death record
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galicia seeker wrote:
BarbOslo wrote:
galicia seeker wrote:
Hello!

Sometimes the priests recorded records that are hard to decipher. This is a death record for Stephanus Czajkowski in Stratyn Rohatyn - 1864. I am hoping that someone can tell me what the word is under his name.

Many thanks


Hi,
Ekonomus, economus (lat)- economist, steward

Dave, are there other options?

:)Barb


Hi,

Don’t blame the priest for difficult handwriting. Multiple copies of the parish registers were made to satisfy the demands of the Austrian civil authorities and it was customary for parish priests to hire individuals who had a smattering of Latin and decent handwriting to produce the copies. Whoever was responsible for the copy in the image likely was no Latin guru but took a Polish word as the source for how he spelled the occupation—hence the spelling with the letter “k”. In normal Latin the letter “k” only appeared in a very few words. The most important were Kalendae (Kalends =the first day of a month) and Karthago (The city of Carthage, which was a great rival of Rome until it was destroyed by Rome at the end of the 3rd Punic War). The letter “c” was a hard consonant in Classical Latin but in later Latin the letter was used as both a hard and soft consonant. In the word economus the “c” was hard. The word had several variant spellings (economus and oeconomus to name two) but ekonomus was not a common variant. The scribe took the Polish noun ekonom to create his Latin spelling.

Polish, English, Latin and other Indo-European languages contain similar words. No mystery here—they are all derived from Greek οικονόμος (steward). When determining the meaning of economus in 19th Century Partitioned Poland the safest method is use the Polish meaning from that time. The best Polish dictionary to use for that time period is the dictionary commonly referred to as “Słownik Warszawski”, which was published in eight volumes during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. It gives the first meaning of the word with its Polish variants Ekonom, a, lm. owie l. a. [Ekumun, Ekomun; Ekumon, Ekunom, Okunom, Okonom, Okomon as “oficjalista dworski” with the meaning of a manor steward. Barb’s interpretation is the one to go with. The others are only valid in a different places and times. Keep in mind that manors and manorial farms continued to exist in Poland until after WWII when Communism broke up that system.

In Latin records the meaning of economus as a manorial steward was historically consistent for centuries from the Middle Ages and the days of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth through the time of the Partitions. Prior to the 19th Century an economus who managed a manorial estate was usually a member of the szlachta himself, albeit a landless member of the gentry. As more peasants became literate during the 19th century the position of steward became open to them too.

Barb,

The only other options are Latin spelling variations. The meaning remains consistent as a steward. Economist would be confusing in that it has contemporary English meanings which do not express the idea of a steward who manages property for another individual.

Dave
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:38 am      Post subject:
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Wow, I'm very impressed, Dave. Your knowledge and explanation are world class. I look back at all your posts and learn a lot! Hope you get a lot of questions in the forum, so I can get better at Latin.
Many thanks!
Barb
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galicia seeker



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:42 am      Post subject: Small translation from a death record
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Many thanks for the explanation, Dave. Not only do you provide a translation, but you also provide comprehensive historical context which is so much appreciated! I learn so much from the details in your posting replies.

Gail
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galicia seeker



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:13 am      Post subject: Multiple nobility baptisms 1826 Stratyn Rohatyn
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My forebears in Galicia Ukraine were poor peasants who worked for local landowners.

I am now curious to see who these landowners were and am coming to realize that the possibilities include the church, the local priest and/or privately owned farms, often managed by others. When researching Stratyn, Rohatyn in the early 1800's it appears that the local parish priest, Stephanus Winnicki had strong family ties to the local nobility, families with names like Czajkowski and Balinski that obviously were Polish in origin. The population of Stratyn included many families of nobility, but none of their records were recorded in the Stratyn metrical Greek Catholic tomes (1835 to 1865) - although they were G.C. They obviously lived outside of Stratyn, as did the parish priest. I did find some of the records in the Rohatyn diocese (the records for Stratyn prior to 1835 are not yet available for viewing). I am attaching an example.

At first glance, the 4 baptism records in 1826 covers four children with birth dates from 1818 to 1824. The writing at the bottom seems to indicate that something happened on June 19th, 1826. Could these be delayed baptisms or just updated housekeeping to include them in the Rohatyn diocese tomes?

Gail



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Post Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:04 pm      Post subject: Re: Multiple nobility baptisms 1826 Stratyn Rohatyn
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galicia seeker wrote:
My forebears in Galicia Ukraine were poor peasants who worked for local landowners.

I am now curious to see who these landowners were and am coming to realize that the possibilities include the church, the local priest and/or privately owned farms, often managed by others. When researching Stratyn, Rohatyn in the early 1800's it appears that the local parish priest, Stephanus Winnicki had strong family ties to the local nobility, families with names like Czajkowski and Balinski that obviously were Polish in origin. The population of Stratyn included many families of nobility, but none of their records were recorded in the Stratyn metrical Greek Catholic tomes (1835 to 1865) - although they were G.C. They obviously lived outside of Stratyn, as did the parish priest. I did find some of the records in the Rohatyn diocese (the records for Stratyn prior to 1835 are not yet available for viewing). I am attaching an example.

At first glance, the 4 baptism records in 1826 covers four children with birth dates from 1818 to 1824. The writing at the bottom seems to indicate that something happened on June 19th, 1826. Could these be delayed baptisms or just updated housekeeping to include them in the Rohatyn diocese tomes?

Gail


Gail,

The notations in the record for each child state same information with a minor change for the first child, Ludwika, who was baptized by Rev. Ło??cki. The remaining three were baptized by Stefan Winnicki. Each child was baptized on the day of birth using the simple ceremony (ex aqua—with water). On 19 June, 1826 they went to church for the ceremonies surrounding the main part of baptism which were supplied by Father Kowalski, the assistant pastor of the church. The baptisms were not delayed but the added ceremonies were put off until 1826. As I’m sure you know, in the Greek Catholic (Eastern Rite...today Ukrainian Catholic Church) infants were Confirmed and received Communion on the same day they were baptized. From these entries one cannot know why the surrounding ceremonies were not completed on the day of baptism. In Latin/Roman Rite Catholic baptismal records the simple and essential part of baptism was usually used because the infant was in distress at the time of birth and was usually done by the midwife and, if the child survived, the ceremonies were “supplied” at a later date by the priest when the child was brought to church for that purpose. It would seem to defy the odds for all four of the children to have been in distress at the time of birth. The parents of the children were szlachta and from what I’ve seen in various records szlachta didn’t march to the beat of the same drum as ordinary folk so who really knows what exactly was going on.

The status/occupation of the father is entered as “officialis comitis” which may be translated as an official/officer/clerk of the count. The meaning of Latin words like dux or comes varied by time and place. Both are Classical Latin words whose meaning morphed by the Middle Ages. In Classical Latin dux, ducis, m. was a guide or a leader, especially a military leader but by the Middle Ages had come to mean a duke. Comes, comitis, m. originally meant a companion or a fellow traveler but by the Middle Ages meant a count. A famous example of these two words is found in the Magna Carta signed by king John of England in 1215 and renewed by his son Henry III in 1225, which begins “Johannes (in 1225: Henricus) Dei gracia rex Angliæ, dominus Hiberniæ, dux Normanniæ et Aquitanniæ et comes Andegaviæ…” and is translated as “John (in 1225: Henry) by the grace of God King of England, Lord of Ireland, Duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and Count of Anjou…” Obviously the feudal titles did not have the same meaning as the same words in Classical Latin. My best guess is that in 19th Century Galicia the term comes was used with the meaning of “count”.

As an aside, Classical Latin had a vocabulary of just over 30,000 words and yet 65% of English words are derived from Latin and modern English has a vocabulary of about 250,000 words. This means that about 162,500 English words are derived from about 30,000 Latin words, which like blows one’s mind and shows how a knowledge of Latin can improve one’s English vocabulary. Here ends the commercial on the benefits of studying Latin.

Dave
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galicia seeker



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Post Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:12 pm      Post subject: Multiple nobility baptisms 1826 Stratyn Rohatyn
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Dave, many thanks for the explanation and interpretation! Another excellent learning experience!

I agree with your assessment that Szlachta did not always adhere to any rules. The more that I looked, the more it became obvious that there was a parallel universe outside of the impoverished Ukrainian villages in Galicia in the 18th and 19th centuries.

My understanding is that a large majority of the farmland and forests around Rohatyn was owned by the Potocki family and other magnates, managed by others.
Quote:
"The Szlachta included those almost rich and powerful enough to be magnates down to rascals with a noble lineage, no land, no castle, no money, no village, and no peasants."
. A sizeable quantity of forests and land were also owned by the church.

I have found a few select G.C records for these managers (Economus) in and around Rohatyn. I believe that others were Roman Catholic but did not follow that rabbit hole! A friend of mine calls fruitless research turkey trails!

Szlachta were also related to many of the "nobilis" G.C. priests who formed somewhat of a dynasty caste. In the situation regarding the nobility baptisms of 1826, Stefanus Winnicki was from a family of noble priests, his mother was nobility (Czajkowski). One of the other priests mentioned - Lotocki, belonged to the priestly dynasty of the Lototsky family (Lotots'ky/Lototskyy/Lotocki). The third priest who seemed to actually perfect the baptism rites for the 4 children - Stanislau Kowalski was the priest attached to the Rohatyn diocese, not the village of Stratyn, so it is curious that it was him that performed the final rites. Perhaps, since Winnicki had performed the rite usually done by midwives (aqua), the final rites had to be completed by someone else?

They all intermarried and apparently lived "of the grid" in manors outside of the villages. It would take a lifetime of scholarly exploration and dedication for me to fully understand the societal culture of the time! So, while it is interesting, I basically gave up! My original intention was to try to pin down just who owned the farms that my peasant forebears worked for. Silly me!

Adding to the records that I previously sent, there are more of the same, relative to nobility baptisms (not attached). There are also a few more interesting ones in the records attached to Stratyn, 1826 in the Rohatyn Diocese records (attached). The 1st one is, again, a noble child baptism, but the next three are not. I found the last one of the 4 - house #77 curious - does it really say that the child's baptism was not completed until 8 years after his birth?



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Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:48 pm      Post subject: Re: Multiple nobility baptisms 1826 Stratyn Rohatyn
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galicia seeker wrote:
Dave, many thanks for the explanation and interpretation! Another excellent learning experience!

I agree with your assessment that Szlachta did not always adhere to any rules. The more that I looked, the more it became obvious that there was a parallel universe outside of the impoverished Ukrainian villages in Galicia in the 18th and 19th centuries.

My understanding is that a large majority of the farmland and forests around Rohatyn was owned by the Potocki family and other magnates, managed by others.
Quote:
"The Szlachta included those almost rich and powerful enough to be magnates down to rascals with a noble lineage, no land, no castle, no money, no village, and no peasants."
. A sizeable quantity of forests and land were also owned by the church.

I have found a few select G.C records for these managers (Economus) in and around Rohatyn. I believe that others were Roman Catholic but did not follow that rabbit hole! A friend of mine calls fruitless research turkey trails!

Szlachta were also related to many of the "nobilis" G.C. priests who formed somewhat of a dynasty caste. In the situation regarding the nobility baptisms of 1826, Stefanus Winnicki was from a family of noble priests, his mother was nobility (Czajkowski). One of the other priests mentioned - Lotocki, belonged to the priestly dynasty of the Lototsky family (Lotots'ky/Lototskyy/Lotocki). The third priest who seemed to actually perfect the baptism rites for the 4 children - Stanislau Kowalski was the priest attached to the Rohatyn diocese, not the village of Stratyn, so it is curious that it was him that performed the final rites. Perhaps, since Winnicki had performed the rite usually done by midwives (aqua), the final rites had to be completed by someone else?

They all intermarried and apparently lived "of the grid" in manors outside of the villages. It would take a lifetime of scholarly exploration and dedication for me to fully understand the societal culture of the time! So, while it is interesting, I basically gave up! My original intention was to try to pin down just who owned the farms that my peasant forebears worked for. Silly me!

Adding to the records that I previously sent, there are more of the same, relative to nobility baptisms (not attached). There are also a few more interesting ones in the records attached to Stratyn, 1826 in the Rohatyn Diocese records (attached). The 1st one is, again, a noble child baptism, but the next three are not. I found the last one of the 4 - house #77 curious - does it really say that the child's baptism was not completed until 8 years after his birth?


Gail,

Although there is one word in the record which has been rendered illegible due to the cramped formation of the letters and the quality of the image it appears that the child was baptized when she was 8 years old. The Latin text reads: Quando bapt(izata) fuit a sacerdote Stephano Winnicki (illegible word) 8 annor(um) Which is translated “when she was baptized by the priest Stefan Winnicki she Illegible word eight years of age”. In my opinion, guessing at the illegible word, the text should be translated “when she was baptized by the priest Stefan Winnicki she was eight years of age”.

Although Canon Law stipulated that a child should be baptized soon after birth the interpretation of the word soon varied from place to place and from time to time. For example, when my friends who had been born in Mexico had children here in the United States it usually meant when everything could be arranged the way they wanted it to be. If they wanted a particular individual to be a godparent and that person was living in Mexico the child might be 3 years old when when the baptism would take place because that was the first time that the godparent was able to come to the States. The understanding of soon varied considerably over time. In 19th century Poland soon usually meant within a day or two of birth whereas during the middle of the 20th century in the USA it usually meant within two or three weeks of birth.

Anyway, to wait 8 years to baptize a child, while unusual, was not an impossibility. The main reason to have a child baptized soon after birth flowed from a theological interpretation of what would happen to a child who had not been baptized. During the early centuries of Christianity some of the Fathers of the Church had the opinion that an unbaptized child would go to hell which was not very comforting to parents whose child died without baptism. Later the theory was proposed that an unbaptized child would go to limbo, which again, while more appealing, was not a totally comforting option. The whole concept of limbo is based on the ancient worldview that the three realities of heaven earth and hell we’re on a plane and limbo was the place where those three realities met .Earth was the flat reality in which humans lived, hell was down below and heaven was part of the dome which was the sky The word limbo is derived from the Latin word limes, limitis, m. meaning the boundaries or limits and thus limbo was neither here nor there but instead was part of the boundary where heaven and hell and earth all all met. It was not earth. It was not heaven. It was not hell. The practice of infant baptism soon after birth was designed to assure the eternal happiness of a child in heaven rather than being condemned to hell or living in nowhere land AKA limbo. As an aside, the English word limits is clearly derived from the Latin limes but not from the nominative but rather from the genitive form limitis. It doesn’t take a whole lot of knowledge of Latin to guess that the word limes, limitis has something to do with limits or boundaries. Limits and similar words like to limit, limited, unlimited, etc. are just one example of the 65% of English words which are derived from Latin.

I hope that the explanation answers your question.

You the best,

Dave
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:21 pm      Post subject: Multiple nobility baptisms 1826 Stratyn Rohatyn
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Thanks Dave!

I would not be surprised by Szlachta delaying a full baptism for any number of reasons, but I was surprised that “ordinary” folks in the village might do so. Even as recently as my maternal grandparent's era - 14 children born between 1916 and 1940, adherence to church rules was non-negotiable (especially with regard to baptisms), and I expect that in 19th century Galician villages the peasants were even more rigidly guided.

Your explanation supports the theory that everything, even in ancient times, church records do not necessarily follow a prescribed/lock-step script. They would probably have appreciated the Internet or at the very least Excel spreadsheets!

I would note that Stephanus Winnicki’s wife died in 1926, the same year as all those records were posted under Stratyn in the GC Rohatyn Diocese record tomes - perhaps an influence?

A comment about the Stratyn Parish priest - Stefanus Winnicki (Vynnytskyi). I looked briefly at the Roman Catholic Rohatyn records and found 1 entry, and there are probably more, establishing that Stefanus performed the initial aqua baptism right on the child of nobility in 1833 - recorded under Stratyn. As well, Michael Smolinski the father of the first batch of children (Economus) recorded in GC records also has Childrens’ baptism records entered into the Roman Catholic tomes. So sometimes Szlachta were GC and sometimes RC?

We will never know the whys of Szlachta behaviors…… very complex indeed.

Dave, I have taken up way too much of your time on this topic and thank you for your patience with a novice (soon to be retired) genealogist. Your fulsome explanations have been an education and I do listen to your “commercials” on the benefits of learning proper Latin but too little, too late for me. I have actually found the Latin records fairly easy to read (you are so right - if you have a reasonable command of the English language, you can figure out the Latin.

Sorry for the poor quality of the image sent in my previous post - very murky in the record; however, I tried my best to edit.

On the occasions when I need to explore a Latin word or term, I first turned to Google Translate, the FamilySearch Latin word list, and of course consulted the expert - Dave Nowicki!

Kind regards,
Gail
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:10 am      Post subject: latin to english translation request
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Hello,

I would like some help deciphering and translating a few family records. (I am a new volunteer working on records with the Bukowski Triangle group. I appreciate al the work you do to help people learn more about their family history! )
These records were found on the Geneteka website.

1.) 22 Nov 1860, Marriage of Ludovicus Carolus Wroblewski, house 308, age 26. to Ursula Sabina Winogrodski. I would like to know clearly the occupations of each member of both families and sponsors.
2.) 13 May 1886 birth of Sophia Maria Clotilda N?,House 259, father D. Joannes N?
I would like a complete translation of this record if possible!

Thank you,
Julie McAleavey



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:42 am      Post subject: 2nd Wroblewski latin record
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Hello,
Here is the second record.
Actually all I need translated are the occupations. And, the father's last name if possible.

I see that Sophia's grandfather, Karol Wroblewski, was one of her sponsors.(my 2nd ggf) In one document he is a scribe. I'm guessing that means he was a clerk.

What is he director of in this record? I can't decipher the word.
In 1907, he was an estate manager, according to our gmother This shows up in one record; it seems he was (r/v?)economi-manager. Poor copying makes this word look like it starts with a v or r.
Many of his family, including his son Stanislaw, worked on/with the railroad as blacksmiths, conductors, etc.
Thank you.

Julie



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Post Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:16 pm      Post subject: Re: 2nd Wroblewski latin record
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Julie McAleavey wrote:
Hello,
Here is the second record.
Actually all I need translated are the occupations. And, the father's last name if possible.

I see that Sophia's grandfather, Karol Wroblewski, was one of her sponsors.(my 2nd ggf) In one document he is a scribe. I'm guessing that means he was a clerk.

What is he director of in this record? I can't decipher the word.
In 1907, he was an estate manager, according to our gmother This shows up in one record; it seems he was (r/v?)economi-manager. Poor copying makes this word look like it starts with a v or r.
Many of his family, including his son Stanislaw, worked on/with the railroad as blacksmiths, conductors, etc.
Thank you.

Julie


Hi Julie,

If you could post the links to the images in the archives where the records are housed it would be most helpful. The handwriting in the marriage record is cramped and difficult for me to read. Unfortunately, vision does not improve with each passing year and multi anni (many years) have passed since I first began to teach Latin.

The B&B record’s handwriting appears much better but since you posted the record in png format it is not possible to enlarge the image. What you see is what you get and not matter how much I squint I cannot read the text. Again, the link would help immensely. If you cannot provide the link, please crop off the two final entries on the page and post it in a format which can be enlarged such as jpg

Thank you,

Dave
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:43 pm      Post subject: translation -
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Hi Dave,

Here is the 1860 marriage record link to Geneteka. http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%20201/pages/PL_1_301_201_0095.htm

Here is the B & B record.(took me a minute to figure out that meant birth and baptism, ha!)
http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%201760/pages/PL_1_301_1760_0042.htm

I get it about eyesight. I hope this is better!
Thank you.

Julie
[/url]

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:10 am      Post subject: Re: translation -
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Julie McAleavey wrote:
Hi Dave,

Here is the 1860 marriage record link to Geneteka. http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%20201/pages/PL_1_301_201_0095.htm

Here is the B & B record.(took me a minute to figure out that meant birth and baptism, ha!)
http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%201760/pages/PL_1_301_1760_0042.htm

I get it about eyesight. I hope this is better!
Thank you.

Julie
[/url]


Hi Julie,

Thanks for the links. They helped.

The B&B (not Bed & Breakfast) and marriage translations will follow. Given names are translated into their Polish form. I’m not always certain of the surnames and place names since they are Polish and not Latin and it is just a matter of interpreting the handwriting. The spelling of surnames and place names is my best reading of the handwriting.

I hope the translations help you in your project.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave


Col. 1 N(ume)rus Serialis = Number in order: Col. Is missing
Col. 2: 1886 Dies et Mensis = Day and Month: (for the year) 1886 June
Col. 2a: Nat(ivitatis) = of birth: 13 May
Col. 2b: Bapt(ismi) = of baptism: 18 July; Podwołocki
Col. 3: N(ume)rus Domus = house number: 259
Col. 4: Nomen Baptisati = Name of person baptized: Zofia Maria Klotylda (3 names)
Col. 5: Religio = Religion
Col. 5a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 5b: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6a: Puer = Boy: Blank
Col. 6b: Puella = Girl: Checked
Col. 7: Thori = of the (marital) bed
Col. 7a: Legitimi = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 7b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank
Col. 8: PARENTES = PARENTS
Col. 8a &b: Nomen, Conditio = Name & Status/condition/occupation: Pan Jan Niżińkiowicz(?), son of Maciej and of Anna Posyniak; Leokadia Pulcheria (two names) Wróblewska, daughter of Karol and Sabina Winogrodzka; Assistant of the post* in Postwołoczyska(?)
Col. 9: PATRINI = Sponsors
Col. 9a & b: Nomen (et) Conditio = name(s) (and) Condition/Occupation/ Status: Pan Karol Wroblewski, director of goods/possessions/property (director bonorum); Michalina Subota, the wife of Paweł, Captain of the royal imperial (C.R. is the usual abbreviation for an Austrian royal imperial office)

Note: postæ is the Genitive Singular of posta, postae, f. post/mail. The ending is written as æ to indicate that the ending is a diphthong (two sequential vowels which are pronounced as one syllable rather than two syllables (i.e. one for each vowel).


The marriage record is entered in the columnar format and there are four major divisions of columns. The major divisions also are divided into sub-columns.

Top of Entry:

Major Division #1 Mensis = (Day &) Month (of the wedding): 17860 = 1860 The parish was using an old (18th Century) register = 22 November 1860

Major Division #2: SPONSUS = GROOM
Numerus Domus = Number of the House: 308
NOMEN = NAME: Ludwik Karol (2 names) Wroblewski, owner of a firm in Husiasyn(?), son of Stanisław, a mason, and of Marcela Nowosielska
Religio = Religion
Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Aetas = Age: 26
Caelebs = Bachelor: Checked
Viduus = Widower: Blank

Major Division #3: SPONSA = BRIDE
NOMEN = NAME: Urszula Sabina (2 names), daughter of Dymitr Winogrodzki (I cannot determine the words for his status/occupation. The handwriting is not clear enough.) and Wiktoria Borkowska
Religio = Religion
Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Aetas = Age: 23
Caelebs = Maiden: Checked
Vidua = Widow: Blank

Major Division #4: TESTES = WITNESSES:
Nomen = Name(s) Jan Czaykowski; Aleksy Dem????
Conditio = their status/ condition of life/occupation: A private official; a supervisor of the post/a postal/mail supervisor

Final entry: This entry begins on this page and continues on the next. It is just legal housekeeping stating that the priest had all the legal ducks lined up—he examined the parties in regard to their (rudimentary) knowledge of the Catholic religion, which usually meant that they were able to recite basic prayers and had a familiarity with the 10 commandments and the precepts of the church; the banns had been announced and no impediments had been found, etc., etc. The link only led me to the first page but the entry should be very similar to the legal entries for the other entries.
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Julie McAleavey



Joined: 16 Mar 2023
Replies: 9
Location: new jersey

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:43 am      Post subject: translations
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Dave,

That was a very thorough translation and more than I expected! It's intriguing how a person could move from owner of a firm to assistant of the post to (later on) estate manager, with Pan added to his name. I'm not sure if that's lateral, upward or downward movement. Historical conditions had their effect, I'm sure.
The words proprieta ? fomd?-- ni Husiatyn I couldn't make them out, or make any meaning out of them. Thank you!
I do want to pay you or give a donation, but I'm having no luck with getting to the page. It won't open. I will use my credit card but not use paypal. It's problematic for us.
I most likely ask for help translating//deciphering a few more difficult parts of Latin records today or tomorrow. I try to translate as much as I can before bringing it to an expert.
Thanks again!

Julie

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