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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:38 am Post subject: Re: translations

Julie McAleavey wrote:

Dave,

That was a very thorough translation and more than I expected! It's intriguing how a person could move from owner of a firm to assistant of the post to (later on) estate manager, with Pan added to his name. I'm not sure if that's lateral, upward or downward movement. Historical conditions had their effect, I'm sure.
The words proprieta ? fomd?-- ni Husiatyn I couldn't make them out, or make any meaning out of them. Thank you!
I do want to pay you or give a donation, but I'm having no luck with getting to the page. It won't open. I will use my credit card but not use paypal. It's problematic for us.
I most likely ask for help translating//deciphering a few more difficult parts of Latin records today or tomorrow. I try to translate as much as I can before bringing it to an expert.
Thanks again!

Julie

Hi Julie,

I do appreciate your kind thoughts but I have not and do not accept any form of payment/donation for translations. I feel that the best way to show your appreciation would be to help others with their genealogy and/or to give a donation to a charity or other worthy cause.

I hope that you enjoy your research and that it proves fruitful.

Dave

Julie McAleavey

Joined: 16 Mar 2023
Replies: 9
Location: new jersey
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:27 pm Post subject: latin record translation request

Hello,

I'd like some help with 2 more records. The first is a birth record for:
Leokadia Pulcheria Wroblewska. 26 Nov. 1862.Born in Chorostokow.
Parents are Karol Wroblewski and Sabina Winogrodzka.
I would like to know what her maternal grandfather's occupation was. He is Dymitr Winogrodzki. It was too difficult to read on the last record I sent. Also if you can decipher them, the names and occupations of the godparents. What does m/p mean? As 'scriba', would her father have been a government clerk?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RQ3-9QLP?i=8&wc=QVZB-71K%3A180600901%2C182838401%2C182843401&cc=1910265

The second is a marriage record for Stanislaw Wroblewski and Franciszka Zyłka. 29 Oct 1895.
I have the bride's information already. I would like the translation for the groom, including his 'home address'.No need for the sponsors. I have that.
Thank you!

http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%201668/pages/PL_1_301_1668_0157.htm
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Julie McAleavey

dnowicki
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: latin record translation request

Julie McAleavey wrote:

Hi Julie,

The “Home Address” reads “Aula viae ferreae”. Aula, aulae, f. is a word which originated in the Classical Latin of antiquity whose meaning varied with time and location. Originally it meant the forecourt of a Greek or Roman house. Later it referred to a hall especially a royal hall. With the rise of the University’s in the 13th century it was often used to refer to a lecture hall or a classroom. In Polish records it was used to refer to a manor house (dwór). It also can have the meaning of a dwelling or a court or a hall or even a courtyard. These specific meaning need to be determined in the context of the time, the place and the social situation. The words via ferrea were not found in the Latin language until after the third decade of the 19th century. The literal meaning is iron road which was the Latin expression used to describe a railroad. Of course, railroads did not exist until the 19th century and hence the late appearance in Latin of via ferrea. Putting the words together one could say that he lived in the railroad hall but what exactly that means in the context of 19th century Galicia requires putting the expression into the context of Austrian ruled Partitioned Poland. During the late 19th century the Austrian authorities were responsible for the construction of several rail lines in Galicia. The attached map shows the rail lines in existence in 1897. The railroad lines are shown in the map and solid lines between towns and villages. The names of the rail lines are usually found under the solid lines.

Most of the individuals named in the record worked for the railroad in one capacity or another. Here is the translation of the entry regarding the groom. It reads “Stanisław Wróblewski, the son of Karol and Sabina (née) Winogrodzka born in illegible (to me), born in Pod??czyska, a blacksmith for the railroad. The way the Latin is entered in the record is unclear regarding the word natus/born. It is entered twice in the Nominative Case whereas it should have been entered once in the Nominative Singular and once in the Genitive Singular to agree in Case and Number with the individual it modifies. Stanisław is in the Nominative and Karol is in the Genitive so one “natus” should refer to the groom and one should refer to the father of the groom. The scribe who made this copy of the record did not write what he should have written but to paraphrase Pontius Pilatus “Quod scripsit, scripsit” (What he has written, he has written).

In the birth record I am still unable to read the handwriting for the occupation of Dymitr. Sorry that I can’t help you with that. The letters m/p stand for manu propria which means “with/in his/her own hand”. In other words the sponsors AKA the godparents signed the register themselves and if you look closely at the handwriting in the entire entry the names of the godparents are clearly in different handwriting than the rest of the entry so it appears that they did sign the register. I cannot read the first name of the male sponsor but the surname seems to be Prus, first/originally Mierzwinski. The given name appears to be in Fraktur script which was used in Germany (and in Austria) during the 19th Century and in Germany until 1941. It seems that the occupation of Dymitr is written in German using Fraktur script. Reading that script is not my forte so once again I cannot be of much help in deciphering the first name of the male sponsor. His occupation also appears to be in the same script. Perhaps Michael can aid you with those entries. The given name of the female sponsor is Józefa and her surname looks like Szkirpan. She is the wife of a teacher (uxor magistri). The word scriba, scribae, m. means scribe or clerk or secretary. A scriba may have worked for the government or for a private individual or for himself doing freelance work. From the record itself it is not possible to determine which of those meanings best fit the bill. The word is derived from the Latin verb scribo, scribere, scripsi, scriptum, to write so the most basic meaning of a scriba is one who writes/a writer.

All the best,

Dave

Julie McAleavey

Joined: 16 Mar 2023
Replies: 9
Location: new jersey
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:02 pm Post subject: translation

Thank you very much, Dave!!! I've seen what you're calling Fraktur script in several other records but didn't know it was a different script-just hard to read!
Best to you,
Julie
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asteeber

Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Replies: 26
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:39 am Post subject: Radonska / Jagodzinska

Hello. I am trying to figure out the original surname of my g-g-grandmother. She goes by Marianna Radonska or Marianna Jagodzinska. I believe she was windowed before her marriage to my g-g-grandfather, and under her name on that record there is a note under the marital condition, but I am not sure of the meaning. Would anyone have any ideas? On my G-grandmother's birth record, it references both surnames of her mother, but that is in German, so not sure if I need to post that on the different thread for German translations.

I also was researching any other Marianna Jagodzinska's in the area at the time, and found one who could be her listed on Baptismal Records of three children, and most likely her first husband. On all of these records, however, note is written under her name that looks like it says "supplevi justa" and a dates that match the births of the other siblings. (Link to record on FamilySearch is here if it's difficult to read: https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:6FZC-NKJH)

Has anyone seen this note before and could possibly tell me what it means? I have never seen a notation like that on any Latin records before, and Google Translate wasn't making much sense.

Thank you so much for any insight. I appreciate it!

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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Radonska / Jagodzinska

asteeber wrote:

Hello,

Her maiden name was Radomska and this is made clear by the notation under her name. The notation is citing the sources for entering her maiden name as Radomska and, as you say, the sources are the birth and baptism records of two previous children. The notation in Latin reads “Supplevi juxta 1861/81 et 1866/76” which translates as “I completed/supplied (this) according to (records) 1861 #81 and 1866 #76. Basically the police deciding the sources that he used regarding her maiden name. The notation then concludes with the date and the name of the priest who entered the notation. The notation was entered on February the 4th of 1880 and is followed by the signature of the priest who entered the notation. The German record you posted states that her maiden name was Radomska and her name from her first marriage was Jagodzinska, I am sure that Michael will confirm that information and add anything else from the record which is of import.

It is likely that Google Translate does not make sense of the notation primarily because the Latin being used was 19th century ecclesiastical Latin which was far removed from the classical Latin which Google translate would use. Another piece of data which you may find useful is that the occupation of the father Wawrzyniec/Lawrence was a woodworker/carpenter.

It is important to keep in mind that the mother of the child was not present for the baptism or when the information was being given. The information was usually provided by the father and/or the godparents. Catholic mothers were not supposed to go anywhere in public for somewhere between a month and 40 days after having given birth. It was at that time that they would go to church for the blessing which was really a carryover from the Jewish purification ritual for a woman who had given birth. Note that the same thing is true in the later German record which is evidenced by the fact that the father of the child is the one who provides the info and signs the register. In short, the maiden name of the mother is really what we would call second hand information since she is not the one who provides the name. It is for this reason that the priest cited his sources for her maiden name in order to provide a paper trail to justify the mother's maiden name.

The marriage record enters her with the surname of her first husband, which was how she would have been known as a widow. The record also provides the given names of her parents, Jan (Radomski) & Antonina and states that both the bride and the groom have been married previously..

I hope that this explanation helps to answer your questions regarding her maiden name.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

asteeber

Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Replies: 26
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:26 am Post subject:

Extremely helpful info! Thank you so much!
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if nobody tends its roots."

Blue

Joined: 15 Jul 2022
Replies: 68

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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:47 am Post subject: Anna Świader - 1809 Baptism record

Hi Dave.
Can you please help me with one section of this Latin birth record? I am interested in the line item for Anna Swiader, baptised on 25 July 1809. In the comments section for the sponsors, it seems to be something like "Ru sti ci"
Can you please tell me what this means?

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dnowicki
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Anna Świader - 1809 Baptism record

Blue wrote:

Hi Blue,

The word is rustici, the Nominative Plural of the substantive rusticus, rustici, m. In 19th Century records it was used with the meaning of a peasant or a farmer. Rustici may be translated as peasants or farmers. The word has a long history and goes back to the classical Latin. It’s most basic root is the word rus, ruris, n. which means the country. The form you see in the record is derived from the adjective rusticus, rustica, rusticum, which means of or belonging to the country or rural or rustic. In grammatical terms a substantive is an adjective which takes on the function of a noun in a sentence and is treated as such. Here the adjective in its masculine form rusticus, rustici, m. doesn’t modify a noun as adjectives usually do but in a very real sense becomes a noun. In classical Latin the substantive originally meant a countryman or an inhabitant of the country as opposed to an inhabitant of the city.

Both rus and rusticus are examples of Latin words from which many of our English words are derived. Some English words derived from these two Latin words are rural and rustic. English also frequently uses adjectives as substantives. Good examples are found in the title of the 1968 flick “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly” in which the adjectives all take on the characteristics of nouns and substitute for nouns.

So much for short answers to simple questions.

Dave

yjurko22

Joined: 04 Mar 2022
Replies: 13

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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:56 pm Post subject: Nobility record (Tomasz Jurkowski)

Hello,
I came across a relative's name on a nobility record (Tomasz Jurkowski) would someone be able to please translate from Latin what it says- it is brief. Thank you in advance

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dnowicki
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Nobility record (Tomasz Jurkowski)

yjurko22 wrote:

Hello,
I came across a relative's name on a nobility record (Tomasz Jurkowski) would someone be able to please translate from Latin what it says- it is brief. Thank you in advance

Hi,

The doc you posted is actually more like an index of members of the Jurkowski family in reference to their residence than a complete and informative entry. Each entry references a record by citing the date and case number. For Tomasz the entry provides the case/doc as Number 3072 dated 29 November 1782. There is nothing else of import in the text. Each entry begins...”likewise”...followed by the name of the individual and the preposition “ad” followed by the Gerundive, a construction used to express purpose. The entry for your ancestor can be translated as “Likewise you bring forth Tomasz Jurkowski for (his place of) habitation”. I’m afraid that without the text of the doc referred to by number & date there is nothing more to be gleaned from the entry.

Dave

yjurko22

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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 9:28 am Post subject:

Thank you Dave!

starshadow
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Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:32 pm Post subject: 1893 marriage from tylicz parish

Please help me translate this 1893 marriage record from Tylicz parish. The spouses are Adalbertus Skalny and Catharina Biskup. I'm mainly interested in what the notes below their names say. I realize the writing is hard to read. I believe Adalbertus was born in Rostoka(?) and Catharina was born in Piwniczna(?). I also can't make out Adalbertus's mother's maiden surname. It looks something like "Gornuska", is that right?

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dnowicki
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:56 am Post subject: Re: 1893 marriage from tylicz parish

starshadow wrote:

Hi starshadow,

You are absolutely correct that the scrawl is difficult to read. The handwriting is cramped and the image is rather small. With each passing year the old lamps grow dimmer and squinting at a computer screen just doesn’t cut it any longer. Here is what I’m able to see:

The groom: Wojciech Skalny, the legitimate son of the late Józef Skalny and Antonina Górnaska(?), a soldier in the royal imperial military (the following words which deal with the regiment to which he belonged are illegible to me), a parishioner of Rożno???*, born in T??? in 1864 and residing in Tylicz. (The entry in the age col. (29) squares with 1864 as his year of birth.)

The bride: Katarzyna Biskup, the daughter of the late Józef Biskup and Maryanna Pająk, a maiden, born in Pi???czna and residing in Tylicz, a parishioner of Tylicz. In the age column—born in the year 1866 on 13? May.

Final note entered: I, Jan Maslanka, the pastor, blessed this marriage on 29 May, 1893

Note* Place names are usually entered in their vernacular form. However, when they denote a parish they are often treated as a Latin 3rd Declension adjective. To determine the place name it is necessary to drop the Latin adjectival ending and then provide the last letter or letters of the vernacular place name. In the name of the parish of which Wojciech was a member the adjectival ending to be dropped is -iensis. The next trick is to supply the final letters of the Polish place name. The USA example I’ve used numerous times to show how the process works is the Latin adjectival form Chicagiensis. Drop the ending -iensis and the stem becomes Chicag. Add the letter “o” and you end up with Chicago. The tool I use for places in Poland is https://mapa.szukacz.pl Here I would type as many letters of the stem of which I’m certain and then, mirabile visu, up pops a list of places which begin with those letters. Then it is a question of clicking on the places until you find the one you want. Unfortunately, there are way more than one or two possibilities so I’ll leave it to you to do the grunt work of determining the location which fits best. If Wojciech belonged to that parish at the time of his birth, the map tool should allow you to determine the name of the village (T???) of his birth.

Wishing you success,

Dave

starshadow
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:35 pm Post subject:

Thanks Dave!

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