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Latin records translations
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Dryber



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Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:02 pm      Post subject: Finding Vital Records Cont.
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Hi Dave and Barb,

I am continuing to find records for the Tofil family. This has been an extremely interesting process to trace their family tree so far, and your translations are allowing me to find even more documents. Please find the new documents I have come across below. I hope I continue to find more vital records.

Thank you,



Maryanna Grzybowski Death Record.jpg
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Link to full page of Maryanna's record. It should be Act #9. https://fotolubgens.lubgens.eu/pysznica/1890-1893/img_3682.jpg
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Maryanna Grzybowski Death Record.jpg



Rozalia Tofil Death Record.jpg
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Link to full page with Rozalia's record. It should be Act #14. https://fotolubgens.lubgens.eu/pysznica/1898-1901/img_3949.jpg
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Rozalia Tofil Death Record.jpg



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molita996



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Post Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:58 pm      Post subject: Latin phrases Uti Fertur and Ut Dicitur
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I just thought I'd add something I discovered today. I found these Latin phrases listed only in birth records for illegitimate children, the last phrase under the parental information for the mothers. This is in Galicia - parish of Zręcin.

Uti Fertur
Ut Dicitur

There was discussion of it some time ago in this forum on what "ubi [sic] fertur" could mean, but it wasn't entirely clear and I dug a little more. I look at some other Catholic sites and I believe these phrases simply mean "so it is said" or "as it is said". Catholic martyrs that have not been formally recognized yet are sometimes said to be martyred "in odium fidei, uti fertur", or "in hatred of the faith, so it is said."

Since the priest cannot declare a child illegitimate (the parent must), that phrase is included for those records to denote the parental statement that the child was born out of wedlock.

I hope I am on the right track!

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:48 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

Thanks for the confirmation of possible cause of death - didn't think Typhoid would be correct.

Basically my goal with these translations is to get as much information as possible to assist with further research, doesn't need to be 100% correct but should have the relevant info. The "filler" words aren't always required, but you never know until they are translated. The priest's customary style is what throws me as they all differ just to keep everyone on their toes. The latest offering is no exception as I have no idea about the first line of the attached marriage record (bottom of page 1), I've had a guess as to what it could be, but it is only a guess.

Can you please check this translation:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1799
# 3, Kiełczew Smużny, 12 May
(No idea of the first line but presume it says something like) I after the 3 banns had been promulgated and there being no impediment to the marriage of Kazimierz Klimczak, widower and Malgorzata, virgin ratify and confirm the marriage with the contract, witness Wojciech Ogrodewczyk, Andrzej Antczak, Jozef Klimczak all from the same village of Kielczew Smuzny.

I bet I'm not even close! I see the scribe uses the same wording in most of the records but they seem to change slightly in each record. At least I've had a go at it.

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,

The scribe is the parish priest and it appears that rather than simply using the same wording in each entry he just composed each entry in a “free form”. He included all the usual important data but varied the exact phrasing as he composed each entry. This would indicate that he had a good command of Latin and was able to think in the Latin language as he composed each entry. He used a “shorthand” which decreased the time needed to write each entry and the “shorthand” was totally comprehensible to him and to any other priest who lived prior to the last half of the 20th Century. It is necessary to keep in mind that his education in philosophy and theology was taught in Latin and that in order to pass exams in those subjects he had to be able to speak and write Latin “on the fly”. Unfortunately, his linguistic talents do not make it easy for someone like yourself who needs a consistent format to make sense of the text to translate the text. Although you may never encounter an identical marriage records such as this it will probably be helpful to analyze the structure of the current text.

Let us begin by transcribing the Latin text and then examining the structure of the entry. The entry is in the form of a single sentence but that sentence in Latin does not use a word order which if followed in English would make for a good English sentence. Here is the transcription of the Latin.

3. Kiełczewo Smużne die 12 Maji
Praemissis tribus diebus bannis nulloque detecto impedimento Canonico inter Laboriosos Casimirum Klimczak viduum et Margaretham virginem matrimonium legitime contractum ratificavi et confirmavi praesentibus testibus Adalberto Ogrodewczyk, Andrea Antczak, Josepho Klimczak omnibus de Kielczewo subditis.

Since the meaning and use of words in a Latin text does not depend on word order we should begin by determining the structure of the sentence. The first thing to identify is the main clause. The main clause of the sentence consists in a subject, a predicate, and a direct object. Unlike English the subject is contained in the verb forms themselves. Latin verbs consist of a stem, which gives the basic meaning of the word, a tense sign and finally a personal ending. The subject in this sentence is I. The predicate is a compound predicate consisting of two verbs, ratificavi and confirmavi. The verb stems provide the meaning of the compound predicate as ratify and confirm. The tense sign is “av”, which shows that the verbs are in the Perfect Tense (the historical past). The personal ending “i” indicates that the subject is the first person singular (“I”). The verbs are then translated as “I ratified and confirmed”. Since both are transitive verbs it is necessary to find the direct object of those verbs. The direct object must be in the Accusative Case and is “matrimonium/marriage”. Now that we have the bare bones of the main clause it is necessary to determine the modifiers of the direct object. “Matrimonium/marriage” is modified by “contractum/contracted” (also in the Accusative Case) with the adverb “legitime/legitimately”, followed by the preposition “inter/between”. The preposition governs the accusative case and names of the the couple who married—Casimirum and Margaretham. The remainder of the sentence is made up of three Ablative Absolutes. The first two are simply the stock phrases used to indicate that prior to the wedding due diligence had been employed. As legal statements, they contain no hints for further research. What is slightly different from the normal phrasing is “tribus diebus/on three days”. Since the banns were announced on days of obligation when Catholics were required to attend Mass either the word “Dominicis/Sundays” or the word “Festis/Feast Days” is understood. The final Ablative Absolute “praesentibus testibus” (literally “the witnesses being present”) is of greater genealogical import and can contain potential clues for further research. The translation can be put together as follows.

3. Kiełczewo Smużne on the 12 day of May
After the banns had been announced beforehand on three (Feast) Days and since no Canonical impediment had been detected, I ratified and confirmed the marriage legitimately contracted between the industrious Kazimierz Klimczak, a widower, and Małgorzata, a maiden, in the presence of the witnesses Wojciech Ogrodewczyk, Andrzej Antczak, (and) Józef Klimczak, all serfs from Kiełczewo.

Back to filler words in the 1795 D&B record of the infant Szymon...I consider filler words not worthy of translation to be words which are completely superfluous. Their presence adds nothing and their absence subtracts nothing from the meaning of the entry. A prime example of such a word is found in the next to the last line in the burial record. The line reads:”Die 4 mensis Augusti”. The Superfluous filler word is “mensis/of the month”. The line can be translated “on the fourth day of the month of August…” However the word “mensis/of the month” is completely unnecessary.

Keep up the good work.

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:52 am      Post subject: Re: Finding Vital Records Cont.
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Dryber wrote:
Hi Dave and Barb,

I am continuing to find records for the Tofil family. This has been an extremely interesting process to trace their family tree so far, and your translations are allowing me to find even more documents. Please find the new documents I have come across below. I hope I continue to find more vital records.

Thank you,


Hi Dryber,

Here follow the translations of the two death records.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

For Maryanna:

Title: (Village of) Pysznica The Year of Our Lord 1893
Left Margin: Number in Series: 9
Col. 1: Dies Mortis 1893 Mensis = Date of Death 1893 Month: February 16; Date of Burial: February 18

Col. 2: N(ume)rus Domus = House Number: 98

Col. 3: Nomen Mortui = Name of the Deceased: Maryanna Popek, the widow surviving the late Ignacy; daughter of Antoni Grzybowski, farmer

Col. 4: Religio = Religion
Col. 4a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b: Aut Alia = Or Another: Blank

Col. 5: Sexus = Gender
Col. 5a: Masculinus = Masculine: Blank
Col. 5b: Foemininus = Feminine: Checked

Col. 6: Dies Vitae = Age (Lit. Days of Life): 53 years

Col. 7: Morbus & Qualitas Mortis = Disease & Type of Death: Pneumonia; Received the Sacraments

Notation: The one who is above buried her.

For Rozalia:

Left Margin: Number in Series:14

Col. 1: Dies Mortis 1900 Mensis = Date of Death 1900 Month: May 9; Date of Burial: May 11

Col. 2: N(ume)rus Domus = House Number: 19

Col. 3: Nomen Mortui = Name of the Deceased: Rozalia Tofil, widow surviving the late Józef, born of Franciszek Marchat, farmer

Col. 4: Religio = Religion
Col. 4a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b: Aut Alia = Or Another: Blank

Col. 5: Sexus = Gender
Col. 5a: Masculinus = Masculine: Blank
Col. 5b: Foemininus = Feminine: Checked

Col. 6: Dies Vitae = Age (Lit. Days of Life): 60 & ½ years

Col. 7: Morbus & Qualitas Mortis = Disease & Type of Death: Ulcer; Received the Sacraments

Notation: Franciszek Bielawski, the assistant priest, buried her.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:59 am      Post subject: Re: Latin phrases Uti Fertur and Ut Dicitur
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molita996 wrote:
I just thought I'd add something I discovered today. I found these Latin phrases listed only in birth records for illegitimate children, the last phrase under the parental information for the mothers. This is in Galicia - parish of Zręcin.

Uti Fertur
Ut Dicitur

There was discussion of it some time ago in this forum on what "ubi [sic] fertur" could mean, but it wasn't entirely clear and I dug a little more. I look at some other Catholic sites and I believe these phrases simply mean "so it is said" or "as it is said". Catholic martyrs that have not been formally recognized yet are sometimes said to be martyred "in odium fidei, uti fertur", or "in hatred of the faith, so it is said."

Since the priest cannot declare a child illegitimate (the parent must), that phrase is included for those records to denote the parental statement that the child was born out of wedlock.

I hope I am on the right track!


Hi Molly,

Part of what you wrote is on the right track but part is not. Ut and uti are two forms of the same conjunction and are often translated by the English word “as”. Uti is the older of the two Latin forms but they can be used interchangeably. The verb form dicitur is the third person singular present indicative passive of the verb dico, dicere, dixi, dictum, to say, and you translate it correctly when you say it can mean “As it is said”. The verb form fertur is the third person singular present indicative passive of the irregular verb fero, ferre, tuli, latum, to bring, to bear, to convey, to speak of, to relate, etc. and in the records you speak of should probably be best translated “as is related”. (A note regarding the fourth principal part of verbs… some dictionaries give the supine as the fourth principal part whereas others give the perfect passive participle. It really makes no difference which of the options a person chooses since they both work equally well as a principal part of a verb. Principle parts of verbs use that title because they are the verb forms from which all the various forms of a Latin verb are derived. The principal parts of a regular verb are the first person singular present indicative active, the present infinitive active, the first person singular perfect indicative active and the supine or the perfect passive participle.)

So far so good but now things get dicey. No one is declaring a child to be illegitimate. It is the evidence which speaks to that issue. The German/Prussian government dictated the form and content of birth and baptism, marriage, and death and burial records for its own reasons. By having the parish priest act as a civil registrar until the establishment of free standing civil registry offices in 1874 the lines between religious and civil records became blurred. It is quite likely that the question of legitimacy was of interest to the state in terms of land ownership and inheritance. As far as the Catholic church was concerned illegitimacy only caused a problem if a man who was born illegitimate wanted to become a priest. Illegitimacy was considered an impediment to Sacred Orders but it was possible to obtain a dispensation from that impediment. The civil government stipulated that multiple copies of the parish registers be kept and priests very often hired scribes to do the busy work of making those multiple copies.

It is necessary to keep in mind that arrangements for baptism prior to the end of the Second Vatican Council (1968) were made by the father of a legitimate child and/or by the sponsors aka godparents. Regardless of whether the child was legitimate or illegitimate the mother did not make arrangements for the baptism nor was she present at the baptismal ceremony. Frequently only the sponsors/ godparents were present for the ceremony. Until 1968 the Latin Rite Catholic Church did not have a special ritual for the baptism of children. Instead the church simply used the rite for the baptism of adults. Since infants obviously were not able to speak when the rite directed questions do the person being baptized the sponsors answered those questions for the child. The main reason that the mother was not present at the baptismal ceremony or to make arrangements for the baptism was not that she was tired out from having given birth but was really a part of Jewish purification rituals which carried over into the Catholic Church. A woman who had given birth was not supposed to go out in public for 40 days after the birth of the child when she would go to the Parish Church for a purification blessing commonly referred to as “Churching”. The passage of 50 some years sure does make a difference and that difference is undoubtedly for the better, although gender equality still has a long way to go. An example of the attitude which for centuries led to the horribly poor way in which women were treated is found in the Colloquia of Erasmus of Rotterdam. The Colloquia were designed by Erasmus as a teaching device for students of Latin during the Renaissance and were written in the form of conversations between two individuals. Renaissance Latin authors such as Erasmus and Thomas More often made their case for attitudinal change through the use of satirical humor. In one colloquium an older married woman is having a conversation with a newlywed wife giving her marital advice. The older woman advises the young wife about her place in society by using the line: “What a paltry thing a woman is without her husband.” Unfortunately, that attitude was of long duration in society but hopefully it will soon be completely relegated to the dustbin of history. Since the mother was not present to make arrangements for the baptism the use of a phrase like “Uti/ut fertur” (“As is related”) makes perfect sense in that the information was provided by a person other than the mother.

Hoping that this explanation helps you and wishing you successful researching,

Dave
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:56 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin phrases Uti Fertur and Ut Dicitur
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dnowicki wrote:
molita996 wrote:
I just thought I'd add something I discovered today. I found these Latin phrases listed only in birth records for illegitimate children, the last phrase under the parental information for the mothers. This is in Galicia - parish of Zręcin.

Uti Fertur
Ut Dicitur

There was discussion of it some time ago in this forum on what "ubi [sic] fertur" could mean, but it wasn't entirely clear and I dug a little more. I look at some other Catholic sites and I believe these phrases simply mean "so it is said" or "as it is said". Catholic martyrs that have not been formally recognized yet are sometimes said to be martyred "in odium fidei, uti fertur", or "in hatred of the faith, so it is said."

Since the priest cannot declare a child illegitimate (the parent must), that phrase is included for those records to denote the parental statement that the child was born out of wedlock.

I hope I am on the right track!


Hi Molly,

Part of what you wrote is on the right track but part is not. Ut and uti are two forms of the same conjunction and are often translated by the English word “as”. Uti is the older of the two Latin forms but they can be used interchangeably. The verb form dicitur is the third person singular present indicative passive of the verb dico, dicere, dixi, dictum, to say, and you translate it correctly when you say it can mean “As it is said”. The verb form fertur is the third person singular present indicative passive of the irregular verb fero, ferre, tuli, latum, to bring, to bear, to convey, to speak of, to relate, etc. and in the records you speak of should probably be best translated “as is related”. (A note regarding the fourth principal part of verbs… some dictionaries give the supine as the fourth principal part whereas others give the perfect passive participle. It really makes no difference which of the options a person chooses since they both work equally well as a principal part of a verb. Principle parts of verbs use that title because they are the verb forms from which all the various forms of a Latin verb are derived. The principal parts of a regular verb are the first person singular present indicative active, the present infinitive active, the first person singular perfect indicative active and the supine or the perfect passive participle.)

So far so good but now things get dicey. No one is declaring a child to be illegitimate. It is the evidence which speaks to that issue. The German/Prussian government dictated the form and content of birth and baptism, marriage, and death and burial records for its own reasons. By having the parish priest act as a civil registrar until the establishment of free standing civil registry offices in 1874 the lines between religious and civil records became blurred. It is quite likely that the question of legitimacy was of interest to the state in terms of land ownership and inheritance. As far as the Catholic church was concerned illegitimacy only caused a problem if a man who was born illegitimate wanted to become a priest. Illegitimacy was considered an impediment to Sacred Orders but it was possible to obtain a dispensation from that impediment. The civil government stipulated that multiple copies of the parish registers be kept and priests very often hired scribes to do the busy work of making those multiple copies.

It is necessary to keep in mind that arrangements for baptism prior to the end of the Second Vatican Council (1968) were made by the father of a legitimate child and/or by the sponsors aka godparents. Regardless of whether the child was legitimate or illegitimate the mother did not make arrangements for the baptism nor was she present at the baptismal ceremony. Frequently only the sponsors/ godparents were present for the ceremony. Until 1968 the Latin Rite Catholic Church did not have a special ritual for the baptism of children. Instead the church simply used the rite for the baptism of adults. Since infants obviously were not able to speak when the rite directed questions do the person being baptized the sponsors answered those questions for the child. The main reason that the mother was not present at the baptismal ceremony or to make arrangements for the baptism was not that she was tired out from having given birth but was really a part of Jewish purification rituals which carried over into the Catholic Church. A woman who had given birth was not supposed to go out in public for 40 days after the birth of the child when she would go to the Parish Church for a purification blessing commonly referred to as “Churching”. The passage of 50 some years sure does make a difference and that difference is undoubtedly for the better, although gender equality still has a long way to go. An example of the attitude which for centuries led to the horribly poor way in which women were treated is found in the Colloquia of Erasmus of Rotterdam. The Colloquia were designed by Erasmus as a teaching device for students of Latin during the Renaissance and were written in the form of conversations between two individuals. Renaissance Latin authors such as Erasmus and Thomas More often made their case for attitudinal change through the use of satirical humor. In one colloquium an older married woman is having a conversation with a newlywed wife giving her marital advice. The older woman advises the young wife about her place in society by using the line: “What a paltry thing a woman is without her husband.” Unfortunately, that attitude was of long duration in society but hopefully it will soon be completely relegated to the dustbin of history. Since the mother was not present to make arrangements for the baptism the use of a phrase like “Uti/ut fertur” (“As is related”) makes perfect sense in that the information was provided by a person other than the mother.

Hoping that this explanation helps you and wishing you successful researching,

Dave


Dave,
Thank you for the clarification on who is giving the information when the mother is at home after giving birth. I had recently learned about "churching" but had forgotten. You are a wealth of information!

Your Latin knowledge is helpful. I also dug deep on the internet and found An Elementary Latin Dictionary by Charlton T. Lewis that translates "Ut Fertur" as "as is reported"; see link below. It has also been translated as "as it is said" on some other sites. So everyone is in sync! Regarding the "ut" vs. "uti": in records I am seeing, they are both used. See my attachment.

Link to Charlton T Lewis dictionary (for "fero"):
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%3Aalphabetic+letter%3Df%3Aentry+group%3D4%3Aentry%3Dfero

The records that I found with these phrases are from the Austrian partition. Makes sense that they use a phrase like "as it is said" since neither parent would have been present to give information. It probably makes clear for record-keeping that this information came from someone other than the father.

Thanks again for your help,
Molly



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Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:21 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

Thanks for the explanations, hopefully I can remember them and use them in the future. I suppose my attempt at translation is as they say in the classics - close but no cigar!

One of my biggest problems is working out what the "shorthand" words maybe as some of the scribes writing is difficult - I had the same issue with my next translation. Originally saved this as a B&B for Tomasz but found it was for twins and Maryanna will also be added to the family. I presume I may have missed the order of birth - I'd say Tomasz was first and the birth date - unless the shorthand gives the day as the same as the baptism? Anyway, here it goes:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1804
# 618, Kiełczew Smużny, 18 December
Jel(?) who zup(?) Szczepan Lasliewski baptised infant twins born together of the legitimate marriage of the industrious (peasants) Kazimierz and Małgorzata Klimczak. They are named, Tomasz and the godparents are laboriosus Lukasz Wawnerczak and the honestus (upright) Salomea Paplawski, I have imposed(?) the name Maryanna with the godparents Jozef Klimczak and Katarzyna Igodnylia (?) all from Kiełczew Smużny.

I've attached a full screen and cropped record to help with the viewing.

Cheers
Ted



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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:40 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

Thanks for the explanations, hopefully I can remember them and use them in the future. I suppose my attempt at translation is as they say in the classics - close but no cigar!

One of my biggest problems is working out what the "shorthand" words maybe as some of the scribes writing is difficult - I had the same issue with my next translation. Originally saved this as a B&B for Tomasz but found it was for twins and Maryanna will also be added to the family. I presume I may have missed the order of birth - I'd say Tomasz was first and the birth date - unless the shorthand gives the day as the same as the baptism? Anyway, here it goes:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1804
# 618, Kiełczew Smużny, 18 December
Jel(?) who zup(?) Szczepan Lasliewski baptised infant twins born together of the legitimate marriage of the industrious (peasants) Kazimierz and Małgorzata Klimczak. They are named, Tomasz and the godparents are laboriosus Lukasz Wawnerczak and the honestus (upright) Salomea Paplawski, I have imposed(?) the name Maryanna with the godparents Jozef Klimczak and Katarzyna Igodnylia (?) all from Kiełczew Smużny.

I've attached a full screen and cropped record to help with the viewing.

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,

The dude probably never won any prize in a penmanship contest. The first phrase which caused you difficulties is Id(em) qui Sup(ra) = The same who is above. The verb is baptizavi (1st Person Singular Perfect Indicative Active) = I baptized. The next part is a bit redundant—two twins—twins = two children so two twins is a bit of a strange way to express the concept. The shorthand Imo = primo (to the first) dedi (1st Person Singular Perfect Indicative Active of the verb do, dare, dedi, datum, to give) = I gave the name Tomasz. The names of his sponsors/godparents follow. The next shorthand is 2do =secundo (to the second) imposui (1st Person Singular Perfect Indicative Active of the verb impono, imponere, imposui, impositum, to lay upon/to place upon/to impose). Here it has the force of a synonym for dedi and may be translated as such. Both primo and secundo are in the Dative Singular, a case rarely seen in B&B records. The Dative is the case of the indirect object which is found after verbs of giving and saying and the like and thus is rare in records we deal with. The direct objects in the sentence are the names and the indirect objects are the persons to whom the names are given. You got the part about the godparents of Maryanna correct but the “cum” goes with the female sponsor. The sponsors/godparents are listed as the male WITH the female...no biggie.

Just wondering...Are you still having fun and learning something? Yor translation was decently close. Maybe the next one will get you the cigar. Are prime Havana cigars available down under? For the longest time the import of Cuban cigars was banned in the USA but you could get them in Canada.

My translation follows.

Dave

Kiełczewo Smuzne: On the 18th day of December I, the same who is above, Stefan Laskowski, baptized two twins who came forth in one birth from the legitimate marriage of the industrious Kazimierz and Małgorzta Klimczak; to the first I gave the name Tomasz and the sponsors were the industrious Łukasz Wawrzeniak with th upright Salomea Popłewska; to the second I gave the name Maryanna and the sponsors were the industrious Józef Klimczak with Katarzyna Jędnejka, all from Kiełczewo Smuzne.


Last edited by dnowicki on Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:40 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin phrases Uti Fertur and Ut Dicitur
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[quote="molita996"][quote="dnowicki"]
molita996 wrote:
I just thought I'd add something I discovered today. I found these Latin phrases listed only in birth records for illegitimate children, the last phrase under the parental information for the mothers. This is in Galicia - parish of Zręcin.

Uti Fertur
Ut Dicitur


Dave,
Thank you for the clarification on who is giving the information when the mother is at home after giving birth. I had recently learned about "churching" but had forgotten. You are a wealth of information!

Your Latin knowledge is helpful. I also dug deep on the internet and found An Elementary Latin Dictionary by Charlton T. Lewis that translates "Ut Fertur" as "as is reported"; see link below. It has also been translated as "as it is said" on some other sites. So everyone is in sync! Regarding the "ut" vs. "uti": in records I am seeing, they are both used. See my attachment.

Link to Charlton T Lewis dictionary (for "fero"):
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%3Aalphabetic+letter%3Df%3Aentry+group%3D4%3Aentry%3Dfero

The records that I found with these phrases are from the Austrian partition. Makes sense that they use a phrase like "as it is said" since neither parent would have been present to give information. It probably makes clear for record-keeping that this information came from someone other than the father.

Thanks again for your help,
Molly


Hi Molly,

Thank you for the link to An Elementary Latin Dictionary by Charlton T. Lewis. It is one of the many Latin dictionaries in hardcover print form which I have in my library from the years that I was teaching the language, but extremely rarely consult these days. Lewis produced another more complete Latin dictionary (which I also have in my library) which was founded on Andrew’s translation of Freund’s Latin German lexicon. It was produced in collaboration with Charles Short who was responsible for the first 216 pages of the work (words beginning with the letter A and was a revision, enlargement and in great part rewritten version of the earlier work. Lewis was responsible for the remaining pages (217 to 2019). Latin and English dictionaries such as those are quite useful. However they rarely contain words found after the Late Latin or Patristic eras which limits their usefulness for 18th and 19th century Latin records. There is a link to the Lewis and Short dictionary https://artflsrv03.uchicago.edu/philologic4/LewisShort521/
There are many other such dictionaries to numerous to list. I searched for links to digital versions of Latin grammars and dictionaries which I own. As an addition to your toolbox here is a link to
A New Latin Grammar by Charles Bennett: https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/289269/original/Bennet+New+Latin+Grammar.pdf. Although it was first published in 1895 it is still considered to be an excellent Latin reference grammar. Here is a link to a Dictionary of Liturgical Latin by Wilfrid Diamond published in 1961: https://archive.org/details/20200214dictionaryofliturgicallatin. Following world war I a group of medieval Latin Scholars decided to create a lexicon of medieval Latin words used in the British Isles and in Europe. It was soon discovered that the scope of such a lexicon was overwhelming and so it was decided that each country should produce a Latin lexicon of the words used in that country. The polish lexicon was begun just prior to World War II, was interrupted by the war and was taken up again following the war. It is still a work in progress but contains entries for all the words from those beginning with the letter A to those beginning with the letter Q. The original editor is deceased in several editors who followed him are now retired but one hopes that someday soon the work may be completed. Here is a link to the online version of the lexicon: https://elexicon.scriptores.pl/ Although a command of the Polish language is very helpful when using the lexicon I suppose it could be used by someone who is not familiar with the Polish language.

Although it is not a Latin dictionary the Słownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego provides copious amounts of information regarding places in Partitioned Poland during the 19th century. Once again a command of the Polish language is extremely helpful when using this work. Here is the link: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/

I would recommend not spending a large amount of time analyzing the Latin found in records in the columnar format from the Province of Posen and/or Galicia. The Latin contained there is very utilitarian and does not bear with over analysis.

The examples which you posted do contain some items of interest. Both the children are illegitimate and both mothers were also born illegitimate. The first child was baptized on the day of birth and the second child was baptized one day after birth. Both have the same given name. Of course the column for information regarding the fathers is left blank. In order for information to be entered in that column the father would have had to show up and acknowledge paternity, something was rarely occurred. Notice the status of the male sponsors/godfathers which is given using the feudal terminology which was regularly used in the Austrian Partition until the peasants were emancipated from their feudal obligations in 1848. The word used is hortulanus, which means “gardener”, a term which does not give an occupation but rather finds its meaning in the amount of land worked by the individual. A hortulanus had his own cottage and sufficient land for a garden and perhaps for some farm animals but no farm fields.

Attached are several lists of Latin words which you may find useful. I posted them numerous times but will do so again for your convenience.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave



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TedMack



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Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:14 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

No problems getting Cuban cigars as they are not banned here.

Yes still having fun with Latin - helps when going through records at FamilySearch library to be able to at least read some of the record before taking the record home for an in-depth attempt. Although it can be frustrating with some of the handwriting trying to make out what some of the letters are. Throwing in abbreviations for a novice makes life interesting and keeps one on their toes. I haven't started pulling my hair out yet, so it's still enjoyable (as much as it can be). Reminds a bit of when I first started work and my boss made notes using Pitman Shorthand - after a while you picked up on certain scribbles and learnt from there. This is pretty much the same, just involves picking up on the "shorthand" and knowing what words are being shortened and what those words are - your explanations are most illuminating. It's all fun and games as different parishes/priests use different shortenings and scribbles.

My next problem is moving to death records, which will have different abbreviations. The records are pretty much one liners and is the first time this family changes the surname (from Klimczak to Oleynik) but unfortunately there are no clues as to why they change. The first file has 2 records (top of pg 2 and then halfway down) - mother and child I think but I couldn't find a B&B record for the child - probably stillborn?

par. Wrząca Wielka 1807
#2, Kiełczew Smużny, 28th January
I buried the dead infant (newborn) daughter of laborious (serf) Kazimierz Klimczak within the arms of the vault (crypt).
#7, Kiełczew, 5th February (could be an error and should be March?)
I buried the dead laborious (serf) Malgorzata Oleynick in the cemetery towards the west.

And this record is for the twin you just checked my translation of his birth - confirms that I am correct in that the surname changes and is the earliest name change:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1805
#25, Kiełczew Smużny, 28th October
Tomasz son of laborious (serf) Kazimierz Oleynik born of twins was buried in the church.

If you could please run your eyes over my translation and provide any info on the "shorthand" that would be great.

Cheers
Ted



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:49 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

No problems getting Cuban cigars as they are not banned here.

Yes still having fun with Latin - helps when going through records at FamilySearch library to be able to at least read some of the record before taking the record home for an in-depth attempt. Although it can be frustrating with some of the handwriting trying to make out what some of the letters are. Throwing in abbreviations for a novice makes life interesting and keeps one on their toes. I haven't started pulling my hair out yet, so it's still enjoyable (as much as it can be). Reminds a bit of when I first started work and my boss made notes using Pitman Shorthand - after a while you picked up on certain scribbles and learnt from there. This is pretty much the same, just involves picking up on the "shorthand" and knowing what words are being shortened and what those words are - your explanations are most illuminating. It's all fun and games as different parishes/priests use different shortenings and scribbles.

My next problem is moving to death records, which will have different abbreviations. The records are pretty much one liners and is the first time this family changes the surname (from Klimczak to Oleynik) but unfortunately there are no clues as to why they change. The first file has 2 records (top of pg 2 and then halfway down) - mother and child I think but I couldn't find a B&B record for the child - probably stillborn?

par. Wrząca Wielka 1807
#2, Kiełczew Smużny, 28th January
I buried the dead infant (newborn) daughter of laborious (serf) Kazimierz Klimczak within the arms of the vault (crypt).
#7, Kiełczew, 5th February (could be an error and should be March?)
I buried the dead laborious (serf) Malgorzata Oleynick in the cemetery towards the west.

And this record is for the twin you just checked my translation of his birth - confirms that I am correct in that the surname changes and is the earliest name change:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1805
#25, Kiełczew Smużny, 28th October
Tomasz son of laborious (serf) Kazimierz Oleynik born of twins was buried in the church.

If you could please run your eyes over my translation and provide any info on the "shorthand" that would be great.

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,

Congratulations you are doing quite well. You translated most of the words correctly but there are a few tweaks which are needed, mostly due to historical factors and to putting things together in a word order which makes the most sense in English. For example it is good to know that the priest waited till the person was dead before he buried them not like in that “Bring out your dead” scene from Monty Python’s Search for the Holy Grail where the collector of the dead accepted an old man who was not quite dead. I will use death record number 7 as an example.

The Latin reads: “D(ie) 5ta (quinta) Feb(ruarii) mortuam lab(oriosam) Margaretham Oleynika prius munitam dispositam(que) quam sepelivi in caem(e)t(e)rio versus occasum.”
The shorthand, with the exception of “que” attached to dispositam, is pretty much what you would find in a birth and baptism or a marriage record. A new one here is “que”. Que is indicated by the letter q with the “squiggle”. Que is what is known in terms of grammar as an enclitic. Probably the most famous example of the enclitic “que” is found in the first line of Virgil’s Aeneid: “Arma virumque cano” (I sing of arms and a man). It is important in this record because it connects the two participles (munitam & dispositam) which modify the deceased.

The historical tweak is found in the word laboriosam, which is used to describe a person as a peasant but does not necessarily mean that the person was a serf. The noun used to indicate a serf was subditus (subdita for a woman). The reason that she was a peasant but could not be called a serf also is historical. During the Partitions of Poland the area where she lived first came under the control of Prussia where the peasants were emancipated from their feudal obligations in 1806—Thus still peasants but no longer serfs. Of course the history of the region became more complex when control of the area was given to Russia following the Congress of Vienna in 1815, when it became part of the Russian controlled Congress Kingdom (Królestwo Kongresowe).

Another complicating factor in this short record is that there are words which are understood but not explicitly found in the record itself. Anyway I would translate the record as follows: “On the 5th day of February I buried the industrious Małgorzata Oleynik (who) died first having been fortified and disposed (for death by the Sacraments), whom I buried in the cemetery towards the West.”This translation cannot be said to be totally literal but the modifications are necessary for it to make the most sense in English. Probably the only way to determine how to do that is based on experience and a knowledge of the languages.

One cannot say with certitude whether the date is an error or not. I suppose that an argument could be made for either option but neither is definitive. A clear error is found in the following entries which have been crossed out. They are baptisms which were erroneously entered into the death register rather than the baptismal register.

A possible reason for the change in surname which comes to mind could have something to do with the work that Kazimierz did. He was probably not an oil Baron like John D. Rockefeller but a farmer who grew a crop grown in that part of Poland, rapeseed, from which canola oil is produced. I suppose that it is possible that that was the crop which he grew or that his occupation may have involved processing the seed to extract the oil. There’s no way to know with certitude but it is an intriguing possibility.

Here follows a transcription of death record number two: D(ie) 28 Januarii mortuam inf(ante)m lab(oriosi) Casimiri Klimczak filiam unius anni q(ue)m sepelivi in fornice Sa(n)ctæ Annæ.
I would translate the entry as follows: On the 28th day of January I buried an infant, the daughter of Kazimierz Klimczak who died at one year of age whom I buried in the crypt of Saint Ann.
The previous comments regarding peasants and serfs and word order hold true in this entry. The child was definitely not stillborn and it would seem that the place to look for her birth record would be in the previous year (1806) since she was one year old. The crypt of St Anne could be in the church or it could also possibly be within the cemetery itself. Since Saint Anne was the mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary there’s a strong connection between her and motherhood and therefore also children.

On to the 1805 death record...D(ie) 29 8bris mortuum Thomam filiu(m) lab(oriosi) Casimiri Oleynik ex gemellis p(os)t partum et sepult(u)m circa Ecclesiam.
Trans: On the 29th day of October Tomasz, the son of the industrious Kazimierz Oleynik from the twins after birth died and was buried near the church.

Once again the translation needs to be a bit “free” in order to make the best sense in English. The Latin text again just states that the father was a peasant without any indication of his having been a serf. The way that the priest phrases the fact that Tomasz was a twin indicates that he was only considered a twin after the two infants were born (post partum). Of course these days we would consider the children twins in utero and not just after birth. Without the benefits of modern medical technology like ultrasounds it makes sense that the fact that the infants were twins could only be determined after birth.

When the preposition circa is used with the accusative case and refers to space it has the meaning near rather than in. Thus the child was buried near the church rather than in it.

The end of today’s Latin lesson...For your homework please translate the next record in your current series and enjoy the rest of the week. As a reward for your good efforts you can take the weekend off while I play in the garden. Planting is over but the joys of weeding are just starting.

Dave
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TedMack



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Post Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:33 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

The "bring out ya dead" quote brought back memories as this was the catch cry at work when wheeling a trolley - as was the "Tis a mere scratch" and "It's only a flesh wound". Just goes to show how popular Monty Python still is.

I hope the weeds have been kind to you - I presume that weeding would remind you of Christmas "Hoe, Hoe, Hoe" - apologies for the bad Dad joke!

Thanks for the detailed explanations and translation of the "shorthand" abbreviations - I've taken note and hopefully they will come in handy in the future. My main problem is deciphering the handwriting.

Anyway, I've had another go - this first one is of death record for Klimczak's (there are three on the page but the only possible one is 23) - it's another one liner and I think includes 2 deaths but little details. My attempt is:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1807
#23, Kiełczew Smużny, 12th December
The dead infant named Jakub, son of Klimczak aged ¾ (?) year was buried in a grave towards the east. The dead daughter of the same Klimczak aged 3 was buried in a grave towards the east.

The next one is a B&B record I've been looking for months - it is for the brother of my 3xGGF as he was the świadek in at least 40 of Birth, Death and Marriage records in the parish and was also the informant/świadek for the death of my 3xGGF (Jacek) and Kazimierz (4xGGF). Unfortunately Gasper/Kacper was not very good with ages or details of parents as he told a Furphy in the death record that the parents of Jacek were Pawel and Teresa (you'd expect that Kacper would know his own parents?) which threw me for a while as I spent quite some time looking for these. I was finally able to confirm that it was a Furphy and confirmed it was actually Kazimierz and Ewa. Because of the various ages he gives himself when a świadek I had him as being born around 1783 and couldn't locate his Birth record anywhere. I finally found his marriage record under the name of Błaszczak (noted in the marriage record that the name was confirmed from the baptism record) and confirmed his birth in 1792 and this is the record - there were 2 words I struggled with and one is a surname (I think). It follows:

par. Wrząca Wielka
The year begins 1792
#1, Kiełczew Smużny, 12th January
I Ignacy Mejier, Vicar of the Ecclesiastical Parish of Wrząca, Baptize an infant named Kacper Melchior and Baltazar the son of the Legitimate Catholic Marriage of laborious (peasants) Kazimierz and Ewa Błaszczak. Sponsors were honorable (upright) Michal Lewandowski ovilater(?) and Justyna Ozimia(?) from Kielczewo.

If you can review when time permits.

Cheers
Ted



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Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:56 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

The "bring out ya dead" quote brought back memories as this was the catch cry at work when wheeling a trolley - as was the "Tis a mere scratch" and "It's only a flesh wound". Just goes to show how popular Monty Python still is.

I hope the weeds have been kind to you - I presume that weeding would remind you of Christmas "Hoe, Hoe, Hoe" - apologies for the bad Dad joke!

Thanks for the detailed explanations and translation of the "shorthand" abbreviations - I've taken note and hopefully they will come in handy in the future. My main problem is deciphering the handwriting.

Anyway, I've had another go - this first one is of death record for Klimczak's (there are three on the page but the only possible one is 23) - it's another one liner and I think includes 2 deaths but little details. My attempt is:

par. Wrząca Wielka 1807
#23, Kiełczew Smużny, 12th December
The dead infant named Jakub, son of Klimczak aged ¾ (?) year was buried in a grave towards the east. The dead daughter of the same Klimczak aged 3 was buried in a grave towards the east.

The next one is a B&B record I've been looking for months - it is for the brother of my 3xGGF as he was the świadek in at least 40 of Birth, Death and Marriage records in the parish and was also the informant/świadek for the death of my 3xGGF (Jacek) and Kazimierz (4xGGF). Unfortunately Gasper/Kacper was not very good with ages or details of parents as he told a Furphy in the death record that the parents of Jacek were Pawel and Teresa (you'd expect that Kacper would know his own parents?) which threw me for a while as I spent quite some time looking for these. I was finally able to confirm that it was a Furphy and confirmed it was actually Kazimierz and Ewa. Because of the various ages he gives himself when a świadek I had him as being born around 1783 and couldn't locate his Birth record anywhere. I finally found his marriage record under the name of Błaszczak (noted in the marriage record that the name was confirmed from the baptism record) and confirmed his birth in 1792 and this is the record - there were 2 words I struggled with and one is a surname (I think). It follows:

par. Wrząca Wielka
The year begins 1792
#1, Kiełczew Smużny, 12th January
I Ignacy Mejier, Vicar of the Ecclesiastical Parish of Wrząca, Baptize an infant named Kacper Melchior and Baltazar the son of the Legitimate Catholic Marriage of laborious (peasants) Kazimierz and Ewa Błaszczak. Sponsors were honorable (upright) Michal Lewandowski ovilater(?) and Justyna Ozimia(?) from Kielczewo.

If you can review when time permits.

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,

Congratulations. You were able to discern all of the important information in the records although some words were omitted in your translation. Those words were certainly not crucial to understanding the record and probably contain no useful information for your further research.

Although we refer to records as death and burial records and birth and baptism records that does not square with the original intention of the entries. The Catholic Church began to require sacramental records of baptisms and marriages following a decree of the Council of Trent in 1575. By about 1600 the practice became commonplace throughout most of Europe. Originally only records of baptisms and marriages were required. By the end of the first quarter of the 17th century Christian burial records were added to the list of records to be kept. No set format was mandated nor was the content which was to be included. This resulted in considerable variety in what one finds in a given entry. In baptism records birth information is often found and in records of Christian burial sometimes death information is also included but by no means is it universal.

It appears that the parish priest who composed the records which you posted was pretty much a minimalist in regard to the information he included. His preference of course is not what someone who is using the records for genealogical research would prefer but he was fulfilling his obligation according to Catholic church practice.

A transcription of the Latin as well as the translation into English follows. Comments regarding the Latin I found after the English translation.

Transcription of #23: Kiełczewo Smużne Die 12 Xbris mortuum infantem nomine Jacobum filium Klimczak annorum ? Quem sepelivi in cæmeterio versus ortum. Iterum mortuam filiam ejusdem Klimczak annorum 3 quam sepelivi in cæmeterio versus ortum.

Translation: Kiełczewo Smużne On the 12th day of December—a deceased infant by the name of Jakub, the son of Klimczak, ? Years of age, whom I buried in the cemetery towards the East. Again/at the same time the deceased daughter of the same Klimczak, 3 years of age, whom I buried in the cemetery towards the East.

I am unable to determine the Arabic numeral used for the age of Jakub and thus cannot confirm your interpretation. The Latin does not include the word grave but simply states that the burials took place in the cemetery. The priest who composed the record seems to have liked to use relative pronouns in the entries he composed. The entry uses the Accusative Singular of the pronoun qui, quae, quod (who). We find the masculine, quem, for Jakub and the feminine, quam, for his sister.

Transcription of Baptism: Incipit Annus 1792
1. Kiełczewo Smużne 12 Januarji
Ego Ignatius Mejier vicarius ecclesiae parochialis Wrząciensis baptisavi infantem trium nominum Gasparum Melchiorem et Balthasarum filium Laboriosorum Casimiri et Evæ Blaszczakow LCC Patrini fuere Honestus Michael Lewandowski ovilator et Justina Ozimina(?) de Kiełczewo.

Translation: The year 1792 begins.
1. Kiełczewo Smużne 12 January
I, Ignacy Mejier, vicar of the parish church of Wrząca, baptized an infant of three names, Kacper, Melkjor and Baltazar, the son of the legitimate Catholic marriage of the industrious Kazimierz and Ewa Blaszczak. The sponsors were the upright Michał Lewandowski, a shepherd, and Justina Ozimina(?) from Kiełczewo.

The words ecclesiae parochialis Wrząciensis are all in the Genitive Singular and contain a noun (ecclesiae) which is modified by two adjectives (parochialis and Wrząciensis). Wrząciensis is a transformation of a vernacular place name into a Latin adjective. Latin adjectives fall into two main categories based on the endings which they use. The first category is adjectives of the first and second declension, which use the feminine endings of the first declension and the masculine and neuter endings of the second declension. The second category includes adjectives which use the endings of the third declension. In this entry parochialis and Wrząciensis are both third declension adjectives. To reinforce the idea that only one child is being baptized the entry includes the words “of three names”. The first word which gave you difficulties, ovilator, is one of several Latin synonyms for shepherd. The second word which caused difficulty is a surname. My reading of the surname comes without any written guarantee as to its accuracy.

Here are some helpful hints regarding the meaning of adjectives when used to describe the status of individuals.
honestus uczciwy upright/honest (usually a farmer from a village or small town)

laboriosus pracowity industrious (a general term for a peasant, worker

famosus/famatus sławetny renowned/famous (generally refers to a middle class craftsman)

circumspectus/providus opatrzny prudent, a poor (i.e. not wealthy) craftsman

Although it is not essential to accomplish your goal regarding Latin you may find Bennett’s New Latin Grammar a useful tool. Since the book is in the public domain it can be downloaded at no charge. Here is a link for the download https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/289269/original/Bennet+New+Latin+Grammar.pdf.
The download is safe and free so why not?

My 18 month old grand niece says Ho Ho Ho whenever she sees a dude with a longish white or gray beard. This reminds me that removing weeds with a hoe is not a back friendly operation—especially as one grows older. Somehow I believe that weeds are totally devoid of kindness.

Enjoy the weekend.

Dave
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Dryber



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Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:02 pm      Post subject: Record Translation
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Hi Dave,

I recently came across a birth record that I believe is about my great grandfather. However, there is one detail on the record that is making me question if the record is actually about him or not. I will explain more below.

A couple of months ago I found my great grandparents marriage record, and after verifying the information on the document I know that the record is about them. Now that I've discovered what I believe is my great grandfather's birth record I started comparing the basic information on it to the marriage record that has already been verified. After comparing them, I felt that there was a strong chance this birth record was about him because 95% of the information on them was a match. This includes the exact same date of birth, birthplace(Ciezkowice), parents, and name. The only difference on the birth record I noticed was a middle name was provided that I have never seen before, and it was not on any other of his records that I have already verified. The middle name on the birth record is what is making me question if the record is about my great grandfather or someone else.

As I thought about this more, I wondered what the likelihood is that someone else has almost the exact same personal information as my great grandfather. For example, the exact same date of birth, birthplace, parents, and name as him. I'm guessing there are a few possibilities here, meaning the document could be about someone else or maybe he had a middle name that he never used and I was not aware of it. I would greatly appreciate your opinion on this matter when you review/translate this document. If the information matches this closely is it safe to say the document is about my great grandfather, or do I need more evidence to certify the document is about him? Also, were middle names common or even used in that time period? If they were, I was not aware of this and have not seen it until now.

I will include a copy of the verified marriage record and the birth record I have recently found for you to compare the information. Thank you for your continued help!



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TedMack



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Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 7:40 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

Thanks for the info, some useful stuff as always. The Klimczak death records do not correspond with my branch of the family tree (probably related but can't confirm a link) although there is a Jakub but he would have been much older - not sure where I came up with 3/4 as the best I can make out on reflection is possibly 6.

With the B&B record I didn't see (or overlooked) the trium reference - the choice of names is interesting. After I found this record while looking through Geneteka for other records I saw the same combination again and thought it was strange. And the "ovilator" meaning is very helpful as I think it comes up in the next batch of B&B that I have yet to have a go at translating.

In regards to weeds - as one of our Prime Ministers once spruiked "Life wasn't meant to be easy" as he raised taxes by a substantial amount. His Christian name was Malcolm and his nickname from then on was Milkem (Milk them). The same goes for weeds - they only grow well were they shouldn't.

Happy weeding!

Cheers
Ted
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