DanR
Joined: 26 Oct 2023
Replies: 2
Location: RetiredBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:24 pm
Post subject: Betley Bachta translation and info
Thankyou for the translation and data sources, it helps me immensely, regards
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 472
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:41 am
Post subject: Latin Record Translation
G'day Dave
I have a couple of more records that I need your valuable help with, can you please check my translations. As always I still have difficulty with the scribes penmanship or determining what the words may be. Here they are:
par. Wrząca Wielka 1801
#399 (the first 399 as there are 2 numbered as 399), Kiełczew Smużny, 12 July 1801, the same as who is above Stefan Laskowski ? ? (stand in?) Curate for Wrząca baptised infant named Jakub ? (conditionaly) from the Legitimate ?? marriage laborious (peasant) Andrzej and Katarzyna Klimczak, godparents laborious Marcin Newel..(?) and Małgorzata Kasinwerenakowa (?) both from Kiełczew Smużny.
par. Wrząca Wielka 1806
#12, Kiełczew Smużny, 7th April
Died Franciszek, son of the laborious (peasant) Mikołaj suffering from illness (?) aged 4 who was buried in the cemetery to the east.
I've only attached the cropped records but can send the full pages if required.
Cheers
Ted
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2736
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
| TedMack wrote: | G'day Dave
I have a couple of more records that I need your valuable help with, can you please check my translations. As always I still have difficulty with the scribes penmanship or determining what the words may be. Here they are:
par. Wrząca Wielka 1801
#399 (the first 399 as there are 2 numbered as 399), Kiełczew Smużny, 12 July 1801, the same as who is above Stefan Laskowski ? ? (stand in?) Curate for Wrząca baptised infant named Jakub ? (conditionaly) from the Legitimate ?? marriage laborious (peasant) Andrzej and Katarzyna Klimczak, godparents laborious Marcin Newel..(?) and Małgorzata Kasinwerenakowa (?) both from Kiełczew Smużny.
par. Wrząca Wielka 1806
#12, Kiełczew Smużny, 7th April
Died Franciszek, son of the laborious (peasant) Mikołaj suffering from illness (?) aged 4 who was buried in the cemetery to the east.
I've only attached the cropped records but can send the full pages if required.
Cheers
Ted |
Hi Ted,
The full page for the B & B record would be helpful.
Thanks,
Dave
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 472
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
| dnowicki wrote: | | TedMack wrote: | G'day Dave
I have a couple of more records that I need your valuable help with, can you please check my translations. As always I still have difficulty with the scribes penmanship or determining what the words may be. Here they are:
par. Wrząca Wielka 1801
#399 (the first 399 as there are 2 numbered as 399), Kiełczew Smużny, 12 July 1801, the same as who is above Stefan Laskowski ? ? (stand in?) Curate for Wrząca baptised infant named Jakub ? (conditionaly) from the Legitimate ?? marriage laborious (peasant) Andrzej and Katarzyna Klimczak, godparents laborious Marcin Newel..(?) and Małgorzata Kasinwerenakowa (?) both from Kiełczew Smużny.
par. Wrząca Wielka 1806
#12, Kiełczew Smużny, 7th April
Died Franciszek, son of the laborious (peasant) Mikołaj suffering from illness (?) aged 4 who was buried in the cemetery to the east.
I've only attached the cropped records but can send the full pages if required.
Cheers
Ted |
Hi Ted,
The full page for the B & B record would be helpful.
Thanks,
Dave |
Attached.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2736
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
| TedMack wrote: | | dnowicki wrote: | | TedMack wrote: | G'day Dave
I have a couple of more records that I need your valuable help with, can you please check my translations. As always I still have difficulty with the scribes penmanship or determining what the words may be. Here they are:
par. Wrząca Wielka 1801
#399 (the first 399 as there are 2 numbered as 399), Kiełczew Smużny, 12 July 1801, the same as who is above Stefan Laskowski ? ? (stand in?) Curate for Wrząca baptised infant named Jakub ? (conditionaly) from the Legitimate ?? marriage laborious (peasant) Andrzej and Katarzyna Klimczak, godparents laborious Marcin Newel..(?) and Małgorzata Kasinwerenakowa (?) both from Kiełczew Smużny.
par. Wrząca Wielka 1806
#12, Kiełczew Smużny, 7th April
Died Franciszek, son of the laborious (peasant) Mikołaj suffering from illness (?) aged 4 who was buried in the cemetery to the east.
I've only attached the cropped records but can send the full pages if required.
Cheers
Ted |
Hi Ted,
The full page for the B & B record would be helpful.
Thanks,
Dave |
Attached. |
Hi Ted,
Thanks for posting the full image. I hought that it would help with info about the priest but as Snidely Whiplash used to say in the cartoons every time he was bested by Dudley Do-Right of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, “Curses, foiled again!” It was of no help but it did show just how strange the entries are. The “Idem qui supra” makes no sense. Going back to the entries on the previous page, the first time that “Idem qui supra” is named he was an entirely different dude (Łukasz Tecławski). Go figure. I can’t help you untangle what is scribbled in the entry but the name & status is certainly not of any real genealogical import.
On to other stuff...You are correct that sub conditione means conditionally. The baptism was conditional probably because the child had been baptized by a midwife when the child was in distress and the priest wanted to make sure that the baptism was done correctly. Baptism is one of the sacraments which can only be received once so needlessly repeating the ceremony would be against the rules. The formula of the priest used would likely be: “If you are not baptized, I baptize you…” The phrase “If you are not baptized” makes the baptism as recorded conditional.
The surname of the mail sponsor is a name which is dear to my heart and has been familiar to me since I was a wee lad. It is Nowicki. The surname of the female sponsor is Kazimierczakowa. The female suffix -owa is attached to the masculine form of the surname, which would be Kazimierczak.
You did well with your translation of the death record. The cause of death which was a mystery to you is entered as morbo consueto. Both words are in the Ablative Case which technically would be an Ablative of Cause. Consueto is the Third Person Ablative Singular of the Perfect Passive Participle of the verb consuesco “to be accustomed. The participle can be translated as “customary/accustomed/usual” So the child died “from the customary disease”. The question is what does that really mean? It is not possible to be certain. The priest knew what he was talking about but more than 200 years later it’s rather a mystery. Infant mortality was very high and there were certain diseases which were frequent causes of death. Newborn infants frequently died of what was called debilitas (weakness) And is usually translated as “Failure to thrive”. But Franciszek was 4 years old so that would not be the likely cause of his death. Some of the diseases which killed toddlers were things like chicken pox, smallpox, cholera, convulsions, etc. It is not possible from this record alone to pin down a specific disease which caused the child’s death. Frustrating but no real hope to be more specific.
Until next time,
Dave
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 472
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:35 am
Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
| dnowicki wrote: |
Hi Ted,
Thanks for posting the full image. I hought that it would help with info about the priest but as Snidely Whiplash used to say in the cartoons every time he was bested by Dudley Do-Right of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, “Curses, foiled again!” It was of no help but it did show just how strange the entries are. The “Idem qui supra” makes no sense. Going back to the entries on the previous page, the first time that “Idem qui supra” is named he was an entirely different dude (Łukasz Tecławski). Go figure. I can’t help you untangle what is scribbled in the entry but the name & status is certainly not of any real genealogical import.
On to other stuff...You are correct that sub conditione means conditionally. The baptism was conditional probably because the child had been baptized by a midwife when the child was in distress and the priest wanted to make sure that the baptism was done correctly. Baptism is one of the sacraments which can only be received once so needlessly repeating the ceremony would be against the rules. The formula of the priest used would likely be: “If you are not baptized, I baptize you…” The phrase “If you are not baptized” makes the baptism as recorded conditional.
The surname of the mail sponsor is a name which is dear to my heart and has been familiar to me since I was a wee lad. It is Nowicki. The surname of the female sponsor is Kazimierczakowa. The female suffix -owa is attached to the masculine form of the surname, which would be Kazimierczak.
You did well with your translation of the death record. The cause of death which was a mystery to you is entered as morbo consueto. Both words are in the Ablative Case which technically would be an Ablative of Cause. Consueto is the Third Person Ablative Singular of the Perfect Passive Participle of the verb consuesco “to be accustomed. The participle can be translated as “customary/accustomed/usual” So the child died “from the customary disease”. The question is what does that really mean? It is not possible to be certain. The priest knew what he was talking about but more than 200 years later it’s rather a mystery. Infant mortality was very high and there were certain diseases which were frequent causes of death. Newborn infants frequently died of what was called debilitas (weakness) And is usually translated as “Failure to thrive”. But Franciszek was 4 years old so that would not be the likely cause of his death. Some of the diseases which killed toddlers were things like chicken pox, smallpox, cholera, convulsions, etc. It is not possible from this record alone to pin down a specific disease which caused the child’s death. Frustrating but no real hope to be more specific.
Until next time,
Dave |
G'day Dave
I thought that Dudley "always gets his man" (but never Nell) but alas not in this case. Always liked that great philosopher Bullwinkle J Moose and his saying that two rights don't make a wrong, but two rights make a U turn! In this case it would be two U turns and we come full circle.
So the scribes scrawl in the B&B is difficult to decipher and it was not just me - I thought it strange that the scribe was not mentioned in any previous records. And as you say of no real genealogical importance. The names of the Godparents had me baffled but now that you have provided your view I can see both names - strange. And yes you should be quite fond of Nowicki.
The term "morbo consueto" had me confused, but now that you have provided the translation I can confirm that in other records on the page it is also used with the term "pustillarum" or "pustillar" so I take it is either chicken pox or the more likely smallpox.
Thanks for taking the time to check my translations and the helpful insights - definitely of great value to me.
Cheers
Ted
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:24 am
Post subject:
Thank you for your detailed information and clarification regarding the parish in Taurov. I appreciate your efforts in deciphering the Cyrillic text on the stamp and providing insights into the differences between the terms "cerkiew" and "church." The link to the document on Roman-Catholic parishes in the Archdiocese of Lviv is also helpful.
I'm eagerly awaiting Dave's note and any additional insights he may have.
Kind regards,
_________________
Nick
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 472
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:33 am
Post subject: Latin Record Translation
G'day Dave
I definitely need help with this one. The shorthand and dialogue has me beat. I have guessed what the record is saying and have shown it below. I was actually looking for the marriage record of Andrzej Ławiński and Katarzyna but found this, which appears to be for his servant? This is a different parish so I have to educate in the ways of this parish. Can I trouble you for a transcription as well as a translation so I can pick up on the terminology. My poor attempt follows:
par. Kościelec (Kalisz) 1785
Mycielin
On 30th October after the three banns had been proclaimed in the presence of the people gathered for the Divine Rites and since no impediment had been detected, I blessed and confirmed the legitimate marriage between Maciej Forezman and Katarzyna servant of Andrzej Ławiński the innkeeper, both from Mycielin. Witnesses Tomasz Sobczak, gardener and Piotr Jaczmarek and others in the congregation. Something about a blessing from the mother?
Cheers
Ted
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2736
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:37 am
Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
| TedMack wrote: | G'day Dave
I definitely need help with this one. The shorthand and dialogue has me beat. I have guessed what the record is saying and have shown it below. I was actually looking for the marriage record of Andrzej Ławiński and Katarzyna but found this, which appears to be for his servant? This is a different parish so I have to educate in the ways of this parish. Can I trouble you for a transcription as well as a translation so I can pick up on the terminology. My poor attempt follows:
par. Kościelec (Kalisz) 1785
Mycielin
On 30th October after the three banns had been proclaimed in the presence of the people gathered for the Divine Rites and since no impediment had been detected, I blessed and confirmed the legitimate marriage between Maciej Forezman and Katarzyna servant of Andrzej Ławiński the innkeeper, both from Mycielin. Witnesses Tomasz Sobczak, gardener and Piotr Jaczmarek and others in the congregation. Something about a blessing from the mother?
Cheers
Ted |
Hi Ted,
Now that I’ve overcome the lethargy resulting from Thanksgiving turkey overload here follows the response to your post.
You translated the Ablative Absolutes very well and also were able to extract some of the main ideas in the text. The difficulty in this particular record revolves around the many contractions, abbreviations, and truncations of words. In the transcription the words are all written out in their full form. An Ablative Absolute is a very versatile construction in Latin and often is translated as a subordinate clause which is what you did and is the way of translating the Ablative Absolute which I prefer. In this translation I decided to translate that construction and it’s most literal form just to give you an idea of how an Ablative Absolute is formed.
Congratulations! You have won the Mr Peabody Latin scholar of the year award which will be presented on New Year’s Eve by Rocket J. Squirrel and Bullwinkle J. Moose. Although the award has absolutely no cash value it does provide the winner with bragging rights for the upcoming year.
This incarnation of Latin 101 concludes with the transcription and translation along with some scholarly notes.
Congratulations again,
Dave
Transcription: Die 30 8bris (Octobris) praemissis 3bus (tribus) bannis continuis diebus Dominicis inter Missae Parochialis solemnia nulloque adinvento legitimo impedimento Ego idem interrogavi publice in Ecclesia Mathiam Forezman et Catherinam famulam Andreae Lewinski cauponatoris adolescentes utrosque* de Mycielin eorumque mutuo consensu habito per verba de presente** matrimonio conjunxi solemniter praesentibus testibus Thoma Sobczak hortulano***, Petro Kaczmarek et aliis multis ad hunc actum congregatis. Postea eis ex Ritu Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae benedixi****.
Translation: On the 30th day of October, the three banns having been proclaimed on sequential Sundays within the solemnities of the parochial Mass and no legitimate impediment having been discovered, I, the same, publicly questioned in the church/before the Congregation Maciej Forezman and Katarzyna, a servant of Andrzej Lawinski, an innkeeper, both adolescents/single young people* from Mycielin, and having had their mutual consent concerning the present** marriage through words, solemnly united (them in marriage) the witnesses being present/in the presence of the witnesses Tomasz Sobczak, a gardener***, Piotr Kaczmarek, and many others gathered together for this act. Afterwards I blessed them from (according to) the Rite**** of Holy Mother Church.
Notes: *adolescentes utrosque/both adolescents/single young people: the vocabulary is a synonym for the more common juvenes. Utrosque is the Accusative Plural Masculine of the adjective uterque, utraque, utrumque. utrumque/both/each of two. Whenever an adjective referred to both a male and a female the masculine form was used.
**presente matrimonio/present marriage: The actual marriage as opposed to the vows to marry in the future (de matrimonio futuro).
***hortulanus/gardener: a peasant who had a cottage and sufficient land for a garden but no farm fields.
****ex Ritu Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae/from the Rite of Holy Mother Church: the words of the blessing he used were from the book which contained the official collection of prayers, blessings, ceremonies, etc. known as Rituale Romanum/The Roman Ritual. Ritu is the Ablative Singular of the 4th Declension Nouns ritus, ritus , m. rite/ceremony.
Grammars of inflected languages such as Latin, Greek, Polish, etc. group nouns together in declensions based on the common ways in which the endings of the nouns appear in both the spoken and the written forms of the language. Latin has five declensions and as you can see from what follows not many nouns fall into the categories of the 4th and 5th Declensions. The most commonly seen nouns of the 4th and 5th declensions in Latin ecclesiastical records are consensus/consent (4th Decl.) and dies, die, m. and f., day and res, rei, f., thing/affair/etc. From the percentages which follow it is not surprising that most nouns you have seen belong to one of the first three declensions. Percentages of Latin Nouns belonging to each Declension:
1st Declension 21.6%
2nd Declension 23.7%
3rd Declension 52.6%
4th Declension 1.4%
5th Declension 0.7%
eis...benedixi: eis is the Dative Plural of the personal pronoun and is one of the very few times that the Dative Case is found in ecclesiastical baptism, marriage, or death records. The Dative is the case of the indirect object and follows verbs of saying, speaking, telling, etc. and is required here because of the verb benedixi/I blessed. It may seem that the verb is not a verb of saying, telling, speaking, etc. but in reality it is. The verb is made up of two parts bene/well and dico, dicere, dixi, dictum, to say, speak, etc. In Latin the word most basically means to say or to speak well and thus a blessing or benediction is a saying or wishing of good things for the recipient of the blessing.
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:02 am
Post subject: Request
Please transcribe and translate the No. 45 birth record for Rosalia Krygier.
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:20 pm
Post subject: Kołton? or colic?
Hi Dave
I was hoping for your opinion for a small item on the attached document.
Row #6 has the death of Stephanus Srama, my ancestor's older brother, who died in February 1822 (Objezierze parish near Oborniki, north of Posen). What I am interested in is the cause of death. Initially, I thought it was "Kolkun" or "Kolkusz," and that it was a version of the polish kolki or kolka, indicating colic, which seems a fairly common cause of death at the time.
However, at the bottom of the page (row #14), I see a similar cause of death with a slightly different spelling: "Kołton." With this alternative lead, I found and researched the strange polish malady called Kołtun. Alternatively called plica polonica, the ailment involves matted hair due to dirt, lice, and neglect. The peasants refused to cut off the hair due to superstitions and folk medicine, and thus the condition could worsen to include “inflammation of the bones, aversion to food, bad eyesight and vomiting.” However, it is unclear to me if people were actually affected by kołton/plica in such a way that it would be listed as the cause of death.
In your opinion, does the referenced cause of death on row #6 look like "kołtun" or something else to you? I note that the scribe for this particular page typically crossed the letter "t", but not always and not consistently. If you look at the "t" in the name "Stephanus" on row #6, you will see a "t" that looks like the one I suspect in the writing of "koltun."
In your experience in looking at thousands of documents, have you seen kołton/plica listed as a cause of death?
I very much appreciate your assistance and especially thoughtful insights, which always add so much context and depth to these old documents. Thank you again for your consideration.
Lee Peplinski
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 472
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
| dnowicki wrote: |
Hi Ted,
Now that I’ve overcome the lethargy resulting from Thanksgiving turkey overload here follows the response to your post.
You translated the Ablative Absolutes very well and also were able to extract some of the main ideas in the text. The difficulty in this particular record revolves around the many contractions, abbreviations, and truncations of words. In the transcription the words are all written out in their full form. An Ablative Absolute is a very versatile construction in Latin and often is translated as a subordinate clause which is what you did and is the way of translating the Ablative Absolute which I prefer. In this translation I decided to translate that construction and it’s most literal form just to give you an idea of how an Ablative Absolute is formed.
Congratulations! You have won the Mr Peabody Latin scholar of the year award which will be presented on New Year’s Eve by Rocket J. Squirrel and Bullwinkle J. Moose. Although the award has absolutely no cash value it does provide the winner with bragging rights for the upcoming year.
This incarnation of Latin 101 concludes with the transcription and translation along with some scholarly notes.
Congratulations again,
Dave
Transcription: Die 30 8bris (Octobris) praemissis 3bus (tribus) bannis continuis diebus Dominicis inter Missae Parochialis solemnia nulloque adinvento legitimo impedimento Ego idem interrogavi publice in Ecclesia Mathiam Forezman et Catherinam famulam Andreae Lewinski cauponatoris adolescentes utrosque* de Mycielin eorumque mutuo consensu habito per verba de presente** matrimonio conjunxi solemniter praesentibus testibus Thoma Sobczak hortulano***, Petro Kaczmarek et aliis multis ad hunc actum congregatis. Postea eis ex Ritu Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae benedixi****.
Translation: On the 30th day of October, the three banns having been proclaimed on sequential Sundays within the solemnities of the parochial Mass and no legitimate impediment having been discovered, I, the same, publicly questioned in the church/before the Congregation Maciej Forezman and Katarzyna, a servant of Andrzej Lawinski, an innkeeper, both adolescents/single young people* from Mycielin, and having had their mutual consent concerning the present** marriage through words, solemnly united (them in marriage) the witnesses being present/in the presence of the witnesses Tomasz Sobczak, a gardener***, Piotr Kaczmarek, and many others gathered together for this act. Afterwards I blessed them from (according to) the Rite**** of Holy Mother Church.
Notes: *adolescentes utrosque/both adolescents/single young people: the vocabulary is a synonym for the more common juvenes. Utrosque is the Accusative Plural Masculine of the adjective uterque, utraque, utrumque. utrumque/both/each of two. Whenever an adjective referred to both a male and a female the masculine form was used.
**presente matrimonio/present marriage: The actual marriage as opposed to the vows to marry in the future (de matrimonio futuro).
***hortulanus/gardener: a peasant who had a cottage and sufficient land for a garden but no farm fields.
****ex Ritu Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae/from the Rite of Holy Mother Church: the words of the blessing he used were from the book which contained the official collection of prayers, blessings, ceremonies, etc. known as Rituale Romanum/The Roman Ritual. Ritu is the Ablative Singular of the 4th Declension Nouns ritus, ritus , m. rite/ceremony.
Grammars of inflected languages such as Latin, Greek, Polish, etc. group nouns together in declensions based on the common ways in which the endings of the nouns appear in both the spoken and the written forms of the language. Latin has five declensions and as you can see from what follows not many nouns fall into the categories of the 4th and 5th Declensions. The most commonly seen nouns of the 4th and 5th declensions in Latin ecclesiastical records are consensus/consent (4th Decl.) and dies, die, m. and f., day and res, rei, f., thing/affair/etc. From the percentages which follow it is not surprising that most nouns you have seen belong to one of the first three declensions. Percentages of Latin Nouns belonging to each Declension:
1st Declension 21.6%
2nd Declension 23.7%
3rd Declension 52.6%
4th Declension 1.4%
5th Declension 0.7%
eis...benedixi: eis is the Dative Plural of the personal pronoun and is one of the very few times that the Dative Case is found in ecclesiastical baptism, marriage, or death records. The Dative is the case of the indirect object and follows verbs of saying, speaking, telling, etc. and is required here because of the verb benedixi/I blessed. It may seem that the verb is not a verb of saying, telling, speaking, etc. but in reality it is. The verb is made up of two parts bene/well and dico, dicere, dixi, dictum, to say, speak, etc. In Latin the word most basically means to say or to speak well and thus a blessing or benediction is a saying or wishing of good things for the recipient of the blessing. |
G'day Dave
As we don't have Thanksgiving down under I have to wait until Christmas for my fill of turkey.
Winning the Mr Peabody award presented by Rocky & Bullwinkle is an honor and I can then be Sherman for a year.
Your explanations with transcription and translations are of great assistance while I look for records in this parish as the truncations and abbreviations differ from where I was looking in the past. Unfortunately the marriage record is not for my ancestor but it does give some insight into my Andrzej Ławiński and does assist greatly as I now believe that the Death record I had previously found for Andrzej Ławiński must be for his son. Some more clues for the search.
I have a few B&B records for Andrzej Ławiński's children I'll send when I complete the translations.
Thanks again for all your help.
Cheers
Ted
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2736
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:44 am
Post subject: Re: Kołton? or colic?
| peplinskil wrote: | Hi Dave
I was hoping for your opinion for a small item on the attached document.
Row #6 has the death of Stephanus Srama, my ancestor's older brother, who died in February 1822 (Objezierze parish near Oborniki, north of Posen). What I am interested in is the cause of death. Initially, I thought it was "Kolkun" or "Kolkusz," and that it was a version of the polish kolki or kolka, indicating colic, which seems a fairly common cause of death at the time.
However, at the bottom of the page (row #14), I see a similar cause of death with a slightly different spelling: "Kołton." With this alternative lead, I found and researched the strange polish malady called Kołtun. Alternatively called plica polonica, the ailment involves matted hair due to dirt, lice, and neglect. The peasants refused to cut off the hair due to superstitions and folk medicine, and thus the condition could worsen to include “inflammation of the bones, aversion to food, bad eyesight and vomiting.” However, it is unclear to me if people were actually affected by kołton/plica in such a way that it would be listed as the cause of death.
In your opinion, does the referenced cause of death on row #6 look like "kołtun" or something else to you? I note that the scribe for this particular page typically crossed the letter "t", but not always and not consistently. If you look at the "t" in the name "Stephanus" on row #6, you will see a "t" that looks like the one I suspect in the writing of "koltun."
In your experience in looking at thousands of documents, have you seen kołton/plica listed as a cause of death?
I very much appreciate your assistance and especially thoughtful insights, which always add so much context and depth to these old documents. Thank you again for your consideration.
Lee Peplinski |
Hi Lee,
Your reading of the cause of death as kołtun is correct as are the results of your research. (I’m not certain about the folk superstition part. Some 60 years ago I read a book about Polish folk superstitions but don’t remember seeing anything about the cutting of hair in that book. I borrowed the book from the local branch of the Chicago Public Library and can’t remember the exact title of the book. It may or may not still be in print. But it was 60 years ago so I can’t swear to the lack of a hair superstition entry.) The late 19th century and early 20th century dictionary commonly known as Słownik Warszawski has an entry in Tom (Vol.) 2 strona (page) 426 which lists 5 spelling variations for the disease. I do not recall ever having seen that particular illness as a cause of death. Entries in the cause of death column often gave symptoms rather than a medical cause of death. I suppose that the symptoms of aversion to food and vomiting could weaken a 3-year-old to the degree that the child could not survive the illness.
Anyway those are my thoughts and I hope they help you somewhat.
Wishing you continued success,
Dave
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2736
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:39 am
Post subject: Re: Request
| treich wrote: | | Please transcribe and translate the No. 45 birth record for Rosalia Krygier. |
Hi,
Faded screenshots are far from the ideal form in which to post a record for translation since they make it difficult to read the text.
The translation of the document follows.
Wishing you continued success,
Dave
Entry number 45(?) Paproty. 1815 on the 4th(?) day of May I, Mateusz ...zki, curate in (illegible) baptized an infant born on the 3rd day (of May) at the 9th hour in the evening to whom I gave the name Rozalia ((born) of the legitimate Evangelical marriage of the upright* Marcin Krygier, a tenant (Polish: komornik), and of Katarzyna Jankin. The sponsors were the upright* Tomasz Karębki(?) and Rozalia Jankin, all from Okonin.
Note: *honestus/upright: an adjective used to describe an individual as a peasant.
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:10 am
Post subject: Re: Kołton? or colic?
Dave,
Thanks for taking a look at the kołtun entry in that document. It is nice to have confirmation that I was looking at it right. I constantly have to remind myself not to read too much into the information contained in the records. In this case, colic seemed to be much more probable, so it is nice to know that kołtun was correct.
Kołtun is probably the strangest thing I have encountered in my ancestry research. I did find a number of sources on the internet, which I will list below in case it ever comes up again. A Wikipedia article under the primary title "Polish plait" was the most comprehensive. In regards to folk superstitions:
"Initially, the plait was considered an amulet to keep illness away from the body, as it was believed that when disease resolved it left the body to live in the hair, resulting in lessened suffering. For this reason, people not only allowed it to develop, but even encouraged it. According to M. Marczewska, who researched the subject from the perspective of folklore studies, animistic beliefs and long-held pagan beliefs relating to illness viewed illness as caused by an invading evil spirit, which by convalescence left the body and was less problematic when living in the hair formation, which was then shed naturally or cut and ritualistically disposed of by persons specializing in folk medicine or practitioners of folk magic. As people believed that the formation of plica was a sign of resolving of disease, plica, as a hairstyle, was also formed artificially by washing with mixtures of herbs, sweetened wine, waxing, etc."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plait
https://www.wilanow-palac.pl/plica_polonica_or_the_polish_koltun.html
It is also helpful to think of the column that I was reading as symptoms instead of cause of death. I have recently encountered several entries of "diaria," which I suspect is diarrhea. Once again, I doubted that people would die of diarrhea, but thinking of it more as the primary symptom of any number of illnesses makes sense.
Thanks again,
Lee
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