Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:31 am
Post subject:
| jmcenaney wrote: | | Alrighty. Here's what I believe to be a birth record for Catharina Steinbach. She is the illegitimate daughter of Anna Steinbach and was born on 1 Dec 1826. Catharina is my 3rd great grandmother and Anna is my 4th. I know next to nothing about Anna so I'm hoping for a sliver or two of information about her or Catharina. The Latin baptism record didn't list a father. The entry is the top half of the page. Your translation expertise is greatly appreciated! |
Well, the challenge with births out of wedlock is that the father was only recorded when he consented to paternity. Hence the father is not mentioned here either, the informant was the midwife Catharina Nellinger, 31 years old and residing in Straas Paulin (today Paulinstraße in Trier).
What can be found is Anna was without profession [ohne Gewerbe], 22 years old and residing in Zurlauben, a former fishing village and today a part of Trier. Here she gave birth to her child. To get an impression of Zurlauben you might have a look at the German Wikipedia entry for Fritz Quant and his drawings.
There were two witnesses: Mathias Karthäuser [he signed Kartheiser], a mason, 33 years old, and Christian Rosenkränzer a cottager [Gärtner], 39 years old, both residing in Maar (today Maarstraße in Trier). They were no relatives of Catharina Steinbach.
Best
Michael
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:44 am
Post subject:
| Kmichael8 wrote: | To get an impression of Zurlauben you might have a look at the German Wikipedia entry for Fritz Quant and his drawings.
Best
Michael |
Hi Michael,
I am glad you mentioned to look at the German Wikipedia article for Fritz Quant, because it has more information and more drawings than the English version for Fritz Quant. Compare:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Quant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Quant
All best wishes for a good new year,
Sophia
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:55 pm
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Hi,
I have a general question. Modern Germany wasn't unified until 1871. I have a number of Pomeranian relatives born before that time -- for example, one born in 1825 in Labuhn; someone born in 1831 in Klein Gluschen; one born in 1867 in Wussow, etc.
Is it accurate to say that they were born in "[City name], Province of Pomerania, Kingdom of Prussia"? Is that the correct format for those locations at that time?
And would they likely think of themselves primarily as Prussians, or Germans, or Pomeranians, or something else? Thanks.
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jmcenaney
Joined: 22 Dec 2020
Replies: 58
Location: Etna, NH, USABack to top |
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:07 pm
Post subject:
Thank you for pointing that out, Sophia as I probably would have just gone to the English version without thinking about it.
And thank you for the recommendation, Michael. I'm going to try to figure out how to get a print of one of his drawings.
Jaime
Editing to add: that is a great question, Brian and I'm also interested to see the answer.
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:41 am
Post subject:
| Brian wrote: | Hi,
I have a general question. Modern Germany wasn't unified until 1871. I have a number of Pomeranian relatives born before that time -- for example, one born in 1825 in Labuhn; someone born in 1831 in Klein Gluschen; one born in 1867 in Wussow, etc.
Is it accurate to say that they were born in "[City name], Province of Pomerania, Kingdom of Prussia"? Is that the correct format for those locations at that time?
And would they likely think of themselves primarily as Prussians, or Germans, or Pomeranians, or something else? Thanks. |
Hi,
For the years you mentioned the Province of Pomerania, Kingdom of Prussia is a correct format. The places you mentioned were villages or estates, some of them can be found multiple times (I found three Labuhns). Hence it might be helpful to provide the additional information to which county [Kreis] the place was allocated.
It’s difficult to say how our ancestors thought of themselves. A formal approach might be a look at documents like passenger manifests, U.S. census data or naturalization records. In older documents (pre 1871) you will predominantly find entries like [Kingdom of] Hannover, [Kingdom of] Bavaria or [Kingdom of] Prussia. In younger documents (after 1871) you will mainly find Germany instead.
Best
Michael
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jmcenaney
Joined: 22 Dec 2020
Replies: 58
Location: Etna, NH, USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:56 pm
Post subject:
Hi, Michael.
I don't need a full translation. I'm just looking for the name of the bride and groom and the date of marriage.
Thanks as always,
Jaime
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:57 am
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That’s a good point. Thank you Michael.
Brian
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:07 am
Post subject:
| jmcenaney wrote: | Hi, Michael.
I don't need a full translation. I'm just looking for the name of the bride and groom and the date of marriage.
Thanks as always,
Jaime |
Hi Jaime,
It was Wilhelm Schalkenbach who married Sophia Louisa Elisabetha Dorothea Korpus on 3 October 1846.
Best
Michael
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jmcenaney
Joined: 22 Dec 2020
Replies: 58
Location: Etna, NH, USABack to top |
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:35 am
Post subject:
Thank you, Michael. That is what I was expecting. I just can't for the life of me read this type of handwriting. Apollonia Braun's name is obvious to me but where it says Wilhelm Schalkenbach, I do not see Wilhelm. I see Milfabssr and would probably never assume that it says Wilhelm. THANK YOU!
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:45 pm
Post subject: Marta Hesse
Hello. I would really appreciate if it would be possible to translate this birth document from Reinsdorf no 34. Marta Hesse is my great grandmother and I have been looking for information about her fo a while without any success.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/jednostka/-/jednostka/4755985 scan no 20
Best regards Jesper
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:20 am
Post subject: Re: Marta Hesse
| Jesper wrote: | Hello. I would really appreciate if it would be possible to translate this birth document from Reinsdorf no 34. Marta Hesse is my great grandmother and I have been looking for information about her fo a while without any success.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/jednostka/-/jednostka/4755985 scan no 20
Best regards Jesper |
Hello Jesper,
Martha was born on 1 August 1904 at 2 o’clock p.m. in Korkwitz Landed Estate [Gutsbezirk]. Her mother was the unmarried Catholic maid [Dienstmagd] Maria [Theresie] Peche, residing in Korkwitz Gutsbezirk.
According to the comment on the upper right margin the railway worker [Eisenbahnarbeiter] Franz Joseph Hesse married the maid Maria Theresie Peche on 12 May 1906 in Friedenthal [marriage record no. 11 / 1906] and acknowledged paternity for Martha.
According to the two comments on the lower right margin Martha married twice: 1929 in Berlin-Wilmersdorf [marriage record no. 419 / 1929] and 1942 in Berlin-Kreuzberg [marriage record no. 1965 / 1942].
Best regards
Michael
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:41 am
Post subject: Re: Marta Hesse
| Kmichael8 wrote: | | Jesper wrote: | Hello. I would really appreciate if it would be possible to translate this birth document from Reinsdorf no 34. Marta Hesse is my great grandmother and I have been looking for information about her fo a while without any success.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/jednostka/-/jednostka/4755985 scan no 20
Best regards Jesper |
Hello Jesper,
Martha was born on 1 August 1904 at 2 o’clock p.m. in Korkwitz Landed Estate [Gutsbezirk]. Her mother was the unmarried Catholic maid [Dienstmagd] Maria [Theresie] Peche, residing in Korkwitz Gutsbezirk.
According to the comment on the upper right margin the railway worker [Eisenbahnarbeiter] Franz Joseph Hesse married the maid Maria Theresie Peche on 12 May 1906 in Friedenthal [marriage record no. 11 / 1906] and acknowledged paternity for Martha.
According to the two comments on the lower right margin Martha married twice: 1929 in Berlin-Wilmersdorf [marriage record no. 419 / 1929] and 1942 in Berlin-Kreuzberg [marriage record no. 1965 / 1942].
Best regards
Michael |
Thank you very much for the fast reply and help!
So the text about the landed estate it seems that it would be possible to locate the very house/farm in Korkwitz?
Is it likely that Franz Joseph Hesse is just stepfather to Martha since they married two years after? Do you know if the name Peche is Polish or German origin? I have never heard that name before.
Best regards Jesper
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Marta Hesse
| Jesper wrote: |
Thank you very much for the fast reply and help!
So the text about the landed estate it seems that it would be possible to locate the very house/farm in Korkwitz?
Is it likely that Franz Joseph Hesse is just stepfather to Martha since they married two years after? Do you know if the name Peche is Polish or German origin? I have never heard that name before.
Best regards Jesper |
Hello Jesper,
So the text about the landed estate it seems that it would be possible to locate the very house/farm in Korkwitz?
According to the Prussian Census of 1905 Korkwitz Gutsbezirk had 3 houses, where 7 families with 45 persons lived. I wonder whether you might get nearer to the very house.
Is it likely that Franz Joseph Hesse is just stepfather to Martha since they married two years after?
You cannot answer this question from the birth record. According the German law a child has in certain circumstances (initially) no legal father, for example if at the time of birth the mother is unmarried, like Maria Theresie Peche. Hence as a father, you must provide an acknowledgment of paternity if you are not married to the mother of your child at the time of birth. This is what Franz Joseph Hesse did in 1906. In this case, the recognition of paternity by Franz Joseph Hesse results in the legal paternity of the child. Whether the recognizer is also the biological father of the child is irrelevant; the act of recognition is not an assertion by a man that he is in fact the biological father of the child.
Do you know if the name Peche is Polish or German origin? I have never heard that name before.
In the Silesian-Bohemian area Peche, Pech, Pecht, and other forms originate from the Czech short form Pech (Pecha) for Peter.
Best regards,
Michael
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:22 pm
Post subject:
Hello.
Ok. Thanks again for your valuable help. Maybe it is not likely to find the specific house but still it narrows down to only three houses in Southern Poland is very exciting. I looked in Google maps,unfortunately no street view of the village but the satellite view presumes it is quite a small village.
I am trying to figure out whether or not Martha moved to Berlin by herself when she was older or younger with the parents. Also, is it possible to find out about any siblings of Martha or would that be on the marriage certificate already if any existed do you think?
Thanks Jesper
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:52 pm
Post subject:
I also wonder if "majątek ziemski" would be a proper translation for "landed estate"?
Thanks Jesper
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