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Jillian W



Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Great Britain

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:54 am      Post subject: Occupation in Latin
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I would appreciate some help in trying to decipher the occupation shown for Joannes on this 1793 baptism entry.

I think that the word begins with either "Dui ...." or possibly "Dri ..." - I'm not sure if there are two words or just one word with a break in the middle.

Jillian



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Sophia
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Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:12 am      Post subject: Re: Occupation in Latin
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Jillian W wrote:
I would appreciate some help in trying to decipher the occupation shown for Joannes on this 1793 baptism entry.

I think that the word begins with either "Dui ...." or possibly "Dri ..." - I'm not sure if there are two words or just one word with a break in the middle.

Jillian


Hi Jillian,
I cannot decipher it. I wonder if you would be able to post an image that shows more of what is written on that page, or perhaps provide a link so that I can look at this writer's handwriting a bit more.
Sophia
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Jillian W



Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Great Britain

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:21 am      Post subject: Occupation in Latin
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Hello Sophia,

This is a link to the page - it's the baptism for Ignatius on the 31st [5th entry from the top].

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9BT7-H3Y?i=317&cc=1554443&cat=1056938

One member of the family was shown to be an Inn-keeper so I had wondered if this occupation may have been connected to brewing, etc.

Any suggestions or ideas would be really appreciated as so very few entries contain a mention of an occupation.

Many thanks.

Jillian
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:39 am      Post subject: Re: Occupation in Latin
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Jillian W wrote:
Hello Sophia,

This is a link to the page - it's the baptism for Ignatius on the 31st [5th entry from the top].

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9BT7-H3Y?i=317&cc=1554443&cat=1056938

One member of the family was shown to be an Inn-keeper so I had wondered if this occupation may have been connected to brewing, etc.

Any suggestions or ideas would be really appreciated as so very few entries contain a mention of an occupation.

Many thanks.

Jillian


Hi Jillian,
I wish I had a simple answer for you as to what is written there, but I do not.
Thank you for providing the link. I spent some time paging through the records, as you have already done. You are exactly right to point out that very few entries contain a mention of an occupation; the entries are almost all limited to names. This made me wonder what the purpose was of the occasional use of additional words. One scenario I could imagine is that when there were two people in the church with the same name, it would be useful to differentiate between them and so an occupation might be added. Another scenario would be if the infant's parents were "the deceased Joannes Beliczaj and his widow Theresa Nagy." However, I can not say that this is what I am seeing here. I will mention that there is extra verbiage for Theresa Nagy and your trained eye can probably decipher that better than I can.
Best of luck in figuring it out,
Sophia
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Jillian W



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Location: Great Britain

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:16 pm      Post subject: Occupation in Latin
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Hello Sophia,
Firstly, very many thanks for taking the time to look into this for me. I'm pretty sure that once the word is known then it will become completely obvious what it was all along!
Regrettably, you give me far too much credit for understanding the last two words in this entry - I have absolutely no idea what they read! Although I keep looking, so far I haven't come across what looks like the same words used anywhere else.
Once again, many thanks for your input.
Jillian
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:07 pm      Post subject: Re: Occupation in Latin
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Jillian W wrote:
Hello Sophia,
Firstly, very many thanks for taking the time to look into this for me. I'm pretty sure that once the word is known then it will become completely obvious what it was all along!
Regrettably, you give me far too much credit for understanding the last two words in this entry - I have absolutely no idea what they read! Although I keep looking, so far I haven't come across what looks like the same words used anywhere else.
Once again, many thanks for your input.
Jillian


Hi Jillian & Sophia,

If memory serves, I seem to recall that’s a question about the occupation came up in the distant past in an earlier post. At that time I suggested looking for other records of the couple’s children in the hopes of finding a clearer reading of the words. I believe that Jillian looked at records of other children of the couple without ever seeing the word/words again. But this indicates to me is that there’s a need for a change of strategy and that is to compare letters in other words found in records of that time and place in order to figure out what the letters are in this particular record. This is basically the going from the known to understand the unknown or in other words the Rosetta Stone process. For centuries reading Egyptian hieroglyphics was a mystery which appeared to be impossible to solve. Then along came the discovery of the Rosetta Stone by the troops of Napoleon which became the key to reading and understanding the hieroglyphics. The way the process played out was that the Rosetta Stone had text written in the ancient hieroglyphics together with a translation into Greek. Hieroglyphics was the unknown and the Greek translation was the known. By painstakingly correlating the Greek with the hieroglyphs it became possible to understand the Egyptian hieroglyphics. That same process on a much smaller scale can work with the current problem. The key is not to just compare occupational words but to see how letters are formed in the record in known words. Jillian wonders whether the word begins with the letters dri or dui. The headings have known words which show how the priest was writing the letter r, which are found in columns three and four in the words parentes (parents) and patrini (sponsors).

Words which follow the name of the mother and of the female sponsor AKA godmother spell out relationships not occupations. The words which follow the name of the mother are “ejus conjux” (his wife) And the words which follow the name of the male sponsor and precede the name of the female sponsor are “cum sua consorte Anna” (with his consort/wife Anna).

Just looking at the letters of the word or words in question I am far from convinced that they are in Latin. It is entirely possible that they are in the vernacular (Slovak).

That’s my contribution and now I leave it to you to find enough known letters to be able to transcribe the entry.

Wishing you success in putting together your Rosetta Stone,

Dave
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Jillian W



Joined: 10 Nov 2020
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Location: Great Britain

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 1:30 am      Post subject: Occupation in Latin
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Dave, thank you for your view on this particular occupation - it's very much appreciated.
The records for this area seem to indicate that Slovak was not used in the church registers until quite a few decades later so I'm feeling relatively "certain" that the language is Latin. However, years of research has taught me to always be prepared for the unexpected!
My personal 'Rosetta Stone' begins today.
Jillian
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