BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1631
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:11 pm
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Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:51 pm
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Yes, this was the first I looked at.
But Sondershausen is quite far from Sonderschaesen and the cleric in France must have looked at some document to write the place of birth - he couldn't have made this up.
Besides it doesn't make much sense that Franciszek Zygmunt (a farmer !) has a daughter in Pieczyska in 1909 , then moves 600 km in the middle of Germany where he has a son 1 year later in 1910 and then returns again back to his fields in Pieczyska where he is still in 1934 and beyond.
I believe that it is more probable that there is a place in Poland which was called Sonderschaesen in 1910 and which is called something else today. It is like Wroclaw which is today in Poland but which was in Germany before and called Breslau.
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1631
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 5:28 am
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| TomasV wrote: | Yes, this was the first I looked at.
But Sondershausen is quite far from Sonderschaesen and the cleric in France must have looked at some document to write the place of birth - he couldn't have made this up.
Besides it doesn't make much sense that Franciszek Zygmunt (a farmer !) has a daughter in Pieczyska in 1909 , then moves 600 km in the middle of Germany where he has a son 1 year later in 1910 and then returns again back to his fields in Pieczyska where he is still in 1934 and beyond.
I believe that it is more probable that there is a place in Poland which was called Sonderschaesen in 1910 and which is called something else today. It is like Wroclaw which is today in Poland but which was in Germany before and called Breslau. |
Hi,
In my opinion, Sondershausen and Sonderschaesen are the same place.
They were married in 1908, and had their first child (Antonina) in 1909. She was born in Pieczyska. After that they went to Germany. They could live there for a few years before returning to Pieczyska. Note that none other than Antonina was born in Poland. Do you know if they had more children in Germany? Although Franciszek was a farmer, it was not easy to support the family at that time. Many people went to Germany, France, Belgium to make money in industrial areas.
I have a similar situation in my husband's family. His grandfather was born in 1913 in Germany. Some of his siblings were born in Poland and some in Germany. The family went to Germany in 1900 and returned to Poland in 1927. They were also farmers.
I don't know if the same thing happened to your family, but I strongly believe it.
Regards,
-Barb
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Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:08 am
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No, I have no idea if Tomasz had other siblings than Antonina but I don't think so. I have written to the archives in Sondershausen to check Tomasz' place of birth one month ago but have not got an answer yet.
Indeed what you describe is possible. Franczisek is a farmer in the Russian part of Poland, has difficulty to feed his family and decides to emigrate in 1909 or 1910. After WWI, the place he has been living in (Pieczyska) is no more Russian but Polish so he returns.
What seems strange to me is :
1) If he wants to make more money as industrial worker, why doesn't he go to Silesia's coal mines ? It is in Germany too but people speak Polish there and it is much nearer to Pieczyska than Sondershausen which is in Thüringen in the middle of nowhere and not really an industry town (I have visited this region a few years ago).
2) If he left the farmer job because of money, why did he return back to the same place he left for economical reasons?
3) Tomasz emigrated to France but spoke Polish and was considered by the French authorities as Polish , not German.
I guess we won't know unless Sondershausen sends me an answer.
I have still a question if you don't mind. I am really struggling with the Russian handwriting. If you are used to it, could you please translate the birth certificate of Franciszek Zygmunt ?
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1631
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:46 am
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Hi,
I wrote earlier today to a German whom I helped earlier. I asked if he could help me find Thomas's birth record.
Translating Franciszek's birth record asap.
-Barb
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1631
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:05 am
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No. 45 Wieruszów
It happened in the village of Wieruszów on March 20th/April 1st, 1883, at 11 a.m.
Appeared personally Tomasz Zygmunt, a carriage driver, 25 years old, living in the village of Wieruszów in the presence of Grzegorz Piętak, a carriage driver, 50 years old and Antoni Rosa, day laborer (?), 60 years old, both living in the village of Wieruszów and presented Us a newborn male child, informing that the child was born in the village of Wieruszów on March 18th/30th of the current year, at 12 o'clock at noon to his legal wife, Julianna nee Piętak, 19 years old.
At The Holy Baptism, held today, the child was given the name Franciszek, and her godparents were: Grzegorz Piętak and Anastazja (surname missing).
This act was read to the declarant and the witnesses, who were illiterate, and it was signed by Us only.
Priest Ilkowski, the administrator of the Wieruszów parish
-Barb
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2024 12:22 pm
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I have just received the answer from "Stadtarchiv Sondershausen" where they say that there is no Thomas Zygmunt born on 7.12.1910 in Sondershausen.
So that leaves only the possibility that his place of birth is somewhere in Germany of 1910 including parts of today's Poland which was spelled closely to Sonderschaesen (this is the spelling in the marriage register uploaded above). Despite several hours of research, I found no place corrsponding to the requirement.
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