Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 39
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:45 am
Post subject: German Military Record Translation
Archduke Ferdinand No. 2 Regiment - January, 1800. I am interested in the second named man - Jan Beliczei, and believe that this document relates to his enlistment into the regiment.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9V9-XCND?i=404&cat=76773
I think that I can make out that the event took place in Tirnau, Presburger (Trnava, Bratislava, Slovakia) in (?) January, 1800 and that Jan was 5ft, 3inches and either a quarter or a half tall and that he was 21 years old. I also think that I can make out 10 florins but I'm not sure if that relates to each man or just the first.
I'm not looking for a detailed translation, but I'd like to know if I've understood the above correctly, if I'm missing anything and, finally, whether it's clear if he volunteered or was he conscripted?
Many, many thanks.
Jillian.
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Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: German Military Record Translation
| Jillian W wrote: | Archduke Ferdinand No. 2 Regiment - January, 1800. I am interested in the second named man - Jan Beliczei, and believe that this document relates to his enlistment into the regiment.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9V9-XCND?i=404&cat=76773
I think that I can make out that the event took place in Tirnau, Presburger (Trnava, Bratislava, Slovakia) in (?) January, 1800 and that Jan was 5ft, 3inches and either a quarter or a half tall and that he was 21 years old. I also think that I can make out 10 florins but I'm not sure if that relates to each man or just the first.
I'm not looking for a detailed translation, but I'd like to know if I've understood the above correctly, if I'm missing anything and, finally, whether it's clear if he volunteered or was he conscripted?
Many, many thanks.
Jillian. |
Hi Jillian
This is an “Assent-Liste”. Assent or assentation (German: Assentierung) was the process of incorporation (recruitment) of persons liable to military service into the former Austro-Hungarian Army. There are two dates: 13 January 1800 and (cross) 23 January 1800.
There are three names on this list, the two remarks at the bottom confirm that all of them were suitably for service. They got a “Werbgeld” or signing-bonus of 10 forint each.
Jan was born in Tirnau, Preßburger Comitat in Hungary, 21 years old, a Catholic, unmarried, a student, was previously not in the army and was 5 Schuh [1 Fuß (Wiener Fuß = Wiener Schuh) = 316,080 mm], 3 Zoll [1 Zoll = 26,340 mm], 2 Strich [1 Strich = 6,585 mm] tall, hence around 1,67 meter.
Hope that helps.
Michael
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Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 39
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:45 am
Post subject: German Military Record Translation
Hello Michael, Thank you so much for your help on the translation - it's really appreciated.
I don't wish to take advantage of your generosity but I would be grateful if you could take look at two Muster Lists for the 8th Hussars - both dated 7th September, 1802.
1. Image No. 95, Jan B. is number 197 and is with the 2nd Majors, 1st Squadron. Born in Tyrnau, musician, age 23yrs/7ths
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JDVQ?i=94&cat=554848
2. Image No. 14, Jan B. is number 14 and is serving with the 1st Majors, 2nd Squadron. Born in Koros, I can't make out his profession, age 23yrs/7mnths
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JDJS?i=119&cat=554848
I had 'assumed' that both of these entries related to the same man, born in Koros with the recruitment taking place in Tyrnau, I'm now not so sure if this is correct!
I've searched through every film for both No. 2 Infantry and 8th Hussars and have collated 150 plus pages containing the name of Jan B. from 1799 to 1818, unfortunately I'm only guessing at the content of most entries.
The earliest record for him is in the Reserve Squadron/8th Hussars for January, 1799; between 1799 and 1805 there seems to be constant transfers but I can only find one man named Jan B. in either the 8th Hussars or 2nd Infantry at any one given time.
Jan B. is listed in the following document as a Recruit (half way down the list) on 18th December, 1799 and I read this to be a transfer from No. 8 to No. 2.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JNZK?i=665&cat=554848
In February, 1780 he returns to the 8th Hussars where he remains until the end of 1818 when filming of the records end. So it seems that if this is the same man then the recruitment document relates to the short period when he was with the 2nd.
Is it possible to identify from these 3 entries if any of the text gives a clue as to whether they are indeed the same man? I'd appreciate anything which might help me to be certain if I'm following the right man.
Once again, I truly appreciate your time.
Jillian
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Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 9:55 am
Post subject: Re: German Military Record Translation
| Jillian W wrote: | Hello Michael, Thank you so much for your help on the translation - it's really appreciated.
I don't wish to take advantage of your generosity but I would be grateful if you could take look at two Muster Lists for the 8th Hussars - both dated 7th September, 1802.
1. Image No. 95, Jan B. is number 197 and is with the 2nd Majors, 1st Squadron. Born in Tyrnau, musician, age 23yrs/7ths
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JDVQ?i=94&cat=554848
2. Image No. 14, Jan B. is number 14 and is serving with the 1st Majors, 2nd Squadron. Born in Koros, I can't make out his profession, age 23yrs/7mnths
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JDJS?i=119&cat=554848
I had 'assumed' that both of these entries related to the same man, born in Koros with the recruitment taking place in Tyrnau, I'm now not so sure if this is correct!
I've searched through every film for both No. 2 Infantry and 8th Hussars and have collated 150 plus pages containing the name of Jan B. from 1799 to 1818, unfortunately I'm only guessing at the content of most entries.
The earliest record for him is in the Reserve Squadron/8th Hussars for January, 1799; between 1799 and 1805 there seems to be constant transfers but I can only find one man named Jan B. in either the 8th Hussars or 2nd Infantry at any one given time.
Jan B. is listed in the following document as a Recruit (half way down the list) on 18th December, 1799 and I read this to be a transfer from No. 8 to No. 2.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JNZK?i=665&cat=554848
In February, 1780 he returns to the 8th Hussars where he remains until the end of 1818 when filming of the records end. So it seems that if this is the same man then the recruitment document relates to the short period when he was with the 2nd.
Is it possible to identify from these 3 entries if any of the text gives a clue as to whether they are indeed the same man? I'd appreciate anything which might help me to be certain if I'm following the right man.
Once again, I truly appreciate your time.
Jillian |
Hi Jillian,
You’re welcome.
I had a look at these lists.
(1) Jan from the “Assent-Liste” was born in Tirnau and a student by profession.
(2) Jan from image no. 95, number 197, was also born in Tirnau and a student by profession. I see no hint about him being a musician. His rank was “Gemeiner” or GI, he was furloughed and on foot.
(3) Jan from image no. 14, number 14, was born in Koros and a musician by profession. His rank was “Trompeter” or trumpeter, he was mounted.
(4) Jan from image 666, half way down the list, was born in Trinau, a student by profession, his rank was recruit.
My understanding is Jan, the student from Tirnau, was in Ferdinand Infantry No. 2 before 18 December 1799, then transferred to Nauendorf Husaren Regiment No. 8 in December 1799 (4), recruited from Ferdinand Infantry No. 2 on 22 January 1800 und transferred to Ferdinand Infantry No. 2 on 7 February 1800 (2) where you find him in the “Assent-Liste” (1).
Jan (3), the musician from Koros, seems to be another person.
Hope that helps.
Michael
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Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 39
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:50 pm
Post subject: German Military Record Translation
Hello Michael,
I now realise that I should have posted my query a long time ago; I've spent a long time searching the records for Jan B. in the cavalry and now I have 2 men both with the same name, serving in the same regiment, at the same time and who are the same age.
I haven't found an Assent-Liste for Jan B. from Koros so will go through the earlier records once again just in case I missed it.
I'm so grateful for your help Michael, and appreciate your knowledge.
Best wishes.
Jillian
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Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 39
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:06 am
Post subject: German Military Record Translation
Hello Michael,
I have now rechecked the FS films for the 8th Hussars and it seems that the Assent-Liste has not survived for the man I am researching.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JFW8?i=71&cat=554848 - the extract '1799 Reserves' is one of the earliest references to Jan B. I'm guessing that the 11th December, 1798 is the date he enlisted but I really can't make sense of anything else.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99VM-J4GB?i=1010&cat=554848 - the extract '1818 Staabs' contains one of the last references to Jan which is under the heading of "Crepirt". I can read, "..... Divisions Trumpeter Johann Belliczay Musician No. 25 .................................... 9 years ................5th ..........................." I wondered if this may relate to the issue of a replacement horse which was 9 years old?
I would really appreciate a translation of these two paragraphs when you have time.
Jillian
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Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 5:58 am
Post subject: Re: German Military Record Translation
| Jillian W wrote: | Hello Michael,
I have now rechecked the FS films for the 8th Hussars and it seems that the Assent-Liste has not survived for the man I am researching.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VM-JFW8?i=71&cat=554848 - the extract '1799 Reserves' is one of the earliest references to Jan B. I'm guessing that the 11th December, 1798 is the date he enlisted but I really can't make sense of anything else.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99VM-J4GB?i=1010&cat=554848 - the extract '1818 Staabs' contains one of the last references to Jan which is under the heading of "Crepirt". I can read, "..... Divisions Trumpeter Johann Belliczay Musician No. 25 .................................... 9 years ................5th ..........................." I wondered if this may relate to the issue of a replacement horse which was 9 years old?
I would really appreciate a translation of these two paragraphs when you have time.
Jillian |
Hello Jillian,
The challenge with these records is often to find a starting point. My understanding is, the first of your records belongs to a copy of the Assent-Liste for the 8th Husars, starting with image 59. Then you get detailed monthly reports of “Zuwachs” or increase, “Abgang” or departure, “Commandierte et Absente” or absentees. In January 1799 image 72 lists Jan B. under “Zuwachs” as a new trumpeter, replacing a departure. He was enlisted on 11 December 1798 in Presburg by a certain von Fontany (I am unsure about his function, but he is mentioned in the next entries too). He was mounted (you see the two columns: 1 M[ann] 1 Pf[erd]). The word “Reserve” refers to the five names listed beneath it, neither to Jan nor to the two names “Im Regiment angeworben” or recruited within the regiment. I see no additional information about Jan.
The second list is related to Jan’s horse. It’s from the December 1818 report for the 8th Husars, listing the departure of “1 Pferd”, that “crepirt”, a word used for the death of an animal. It was Jan’s “Dienstpferd” or charger, a 9 year old “Apfelschimmel” or apple grey. The key message from the nota is, the charger’s fur was sold. As you already read, Jan was Divisions Trumpeter.
Best regards,
Michael
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Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 39
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 1:15 pm
Post subject: German Military Translation
Michael, Thank you so much for all the information - I do appreciate the translations/explanations of the headings used within the records.
I had read that trumpeters were issued with grey horses to make them more distinguishable on the battlefield but I wasn't sure if that really was the case.
Now that I understand more about these records I will re-read them in the hope of discovering even more.
Thank you so much.
Jillian
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