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CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:31 pm Post subject: Help Me Get Started? :(

Hello!

We have had very little luck locating any sort of documentation for our Polish ancestors. My great grandfather likely came to the US in the 1910s through NY from we believe Warsaw.

Here is what we have been able to find so far, if you can help would be SO appreciated!

My maternal grandfather was named Nathan Gross, he was born in NY, USA in 1925. His mother (my maternal great grandmother) was named Hannah Garron, born in 1904. We believe she was from Lithuania, and we also believe her name used to be Hannah Feinberg. It is possible that Hannah Garron's parents, who died before WWII, lived in Vilnius or Vilno. Her parents' names appear to be Fainberg, Nochim and Gertel (my maternal great great grandparents).

Hannah was married to my maternal great grandfather, Isse Gross, who was born in approximately 1896. We have been told he is from Warsaw area. His original last name was Perlstein, before it got changed to Gross in NY. He likely went to NY in the 1910s.

Isse's parents (my maternal great great grandparents) were Bella and Solomon Perlstein.
There is a death certgificate for a baby dated 2/25/1909 in Warsaw that was born to Zelman and Bejla Perelsztejn -
Bella Perelstein in Vilno, Strasuna Str 23, and a Szolom Perlsztejn in the Wilno ghetto.

If you are able to help direct me in the right direction, I would be so grateful!
- C

BarbOslo
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject:

Hi Sophia & Trish,
Do you manage to find a Manifest? We need confirmation of the original surnames.

-Barb

CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:58 pm Post subject:

Hi,
Sorry was this meant for me? I am not sure what a Manifest is.
We have a wedding certificate for Isse and Hannah, and this has all the original surnames on it.

BarbOslo
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:08 pm Post subject:

Hi,
No, this message was to Sophia and Trish. I meant ship's manifest. Can you share with us the documents you mentioned?

-Barb

CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:15 pm Post subject:

This is the link, let me know if this does not work. I need to ask my mom if she has any other documents.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2468-3C6

BarbOslo
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:36 pm Post subject:

It looks difficult. I see he was born in Russia. It is not detailed. In addition, you mentioned that the family changed their surname. It is important that we manage to find the ship's manifest. This can give us information about place of birth, the family in Poland / Russia.
-Barb

CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 5:00 pm Post subject:

Any suggestion on where to look for ship Manifests? I searched through Ellis Island documents but found nothing that was clearly for either of my grandparents. They came in through NYC, but we aren't sure which ship or processing center.

At the time my great grandfather lived in Poland, it wasn't an independent country yet - it was divided among the Russian Empire, the German Empire (Prussia), and the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Here is what I believe may be the ship's manifest for my great grandfather, but I am not completely sure. I don't know how to figure out when or where he changed his name.

It... Perlstein.png

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Sophia
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:10 am Post subject:

CLPolish2024 wrote:

Hi C and Barb,

I may have a chance later today to see if I can find a ship manifest for him, but for now I can at least tell you that this one you posted is not the right one. I am attaching links so that you can see both pages of the manifest cited in the cover sheet you provided:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TC-XQZW-R?view=index&action=view&cc=1368704

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TC-XQZC-Q?view=index&action=view&cc=1368704

He is on line 7, which you can see is crossed out. The cross-out was a way of indicating that someone did not sail. Beneath the cross-out line, you can see that this man, named Itzak Perlstein, lists Leib Perlstein as one of his parents. Also, you see that he was headed to his brother in Toronto, Ontario. I don't think that Toronto matches up with what you were expecting, despite the positive notes of him being a Jewish man coming from Wilno.

Let's see what else we can find on him. My initial thought is that we should be looking for Isadore Gross on a manifest, but we can look at other Isadore Perlstein's as well. However, I really think our starting point for research should be census records, particularly from 1930 and 1940, followed by going back in time to the 1920 and possibly the NY 1925. For this purpose, C, could you please tell us where the family lived? Brooklyn, for example, or Manhattan? Can you give us names of their children so that we can be sure we are finding the right family?

Sophia

CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
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Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 6:51 am Post subject:

Wow, this is amazing detective work Sophia - I am very impressed! And am learning a lot, thank you.

This should be a NY census with Isse Gross in it - it is from the Bronx.
We believe he changed his name from Perlstein as soon as he got to NY, but perhaps that is not true? He may have changed it already while in Poland / Russia.
His wife was Hannah Garron, who was Hannah Feinburg before marrying, and their son Nathan Gross.

They were related to a family with the name of Olesky.

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Trish
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:26 pm Post subject:

Sophia wrote:

CLPolish2024 wrote:

Hi C, Barb, and Sophia,

This is the other manifest that Sophia posted of Ytzik Perlstein (Itzak per manifest Sophia posted). He is on Line 3. He is going to go see his brother David in New York.

I saw the 1925 New York State Census. I am trying to find other records on the family.
Regards,
Trish

Name Ytzik Perlstein
Gender Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality Hebrew
Marital Status Single
Age 17
Birth Date abt 1896
Birth Place Russia
Other Birth Place Wilna
Last Known Residence Wilna, Russia
Departure Port Antwerp, Belgium
Arrival Date 8 Jul 1913
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Residence Place Russia
Final Destination New York City, New York
Height 5 Feet, 6 Inches
Hair Color Brown
Eye Color Brown
Complexion Fair
Person in Old Country Leib Perlstein
Person in Old Country Relationship Father
Person in Old Country Residence Wilna Schaninowska
Person in US David Perlstein
Person in US Relationship Brother
Father
Leib Perlstein
Sibling David Perlstein
Ship Name Zeeland

1913 Manifest, Page 1, Line 3.jpg

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1913 Manifest, Page 2, Line 3.jpg

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CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:43 pm Post subject:

I have seen this one as well, it does not appear to be my relative sadly. Thank you for contributing to this Smile

Sophia
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:47 pm Post subject:

Hi C and Barb and Trish,

Well done, Trish, finding the matching manifest for the Itzak Perlstein who seems to have waited one week and changed his destination to Brooklyn rather than Toronto. What seems off to me is that the marriage record for Isadore and Hannah is showing them marrying in Manhattan. So that would mean arriving in NY in 1913 and going to a brother in Brooklyn, marrying in 1924 in Manhattan, and then in the 1925 census being in the Bronx.

Sophia

CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 1:15 pm Post subject:

They are all quite close together in NY - could it be that unusual to have that amount of movement in the span of 10 years?

Also - this was not the name of Isadore's father, as far as I know his father's name was Solomon Perlstein. In the Manifest his father is listed as:
Person in Old Country Leib Perlstein
Person in Old Country Relationship Father

So perhaps this is not the correct person? What is the best way to be sure?

Trish
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:18 pm Post subject:

Hi Everyone,

I found information on Isse and Hannah's marriage. This matches what "C" has for information on the family.

Regards,
Trish

Name Isse Gross
Sex Male
Age 28
Birth Year (Estimated) 1896
Birthplace Russia
Marital Status Single
Race White
Father's Name Solomon
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Bella Perlstein
Mother's Sex Female
Spouse's Name Hannah Garron
Spouse's Sex Female
Spouse's Age 20
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1904
Spouse's Birthplace Russia
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Race White
Spouse's Father's Name Nochim
Spouse's Father's Sex Male
Spouse's Mother's Name Gertel Feinberg
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 8 Jul 1924
Event Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States
Event Place (Original) Manhattan, New York
Source Details cn 19995

CLPolish2024

Joined: 12 Nov 2024
Replies: 16
Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject:

Thank you for your hard work Smile

This one my mother stumbled upon a few weeks ago on I think FamilySearch. Where we struggle is finding anything that goes back to Poland, when they were over there. Or anything related to the name change!

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