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BarbOslo
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 3:14 am Post subject:

Hi Tiago,
We are several who help.
Manifest, and the document you uploaded confirms the places where Eugenia and Apolonia were born. I will check which archive I need to write to for more information.

-Barb

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BarbOslo
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 3:46 am Post subject:

Hi again,
I sent a question to the National Archives in Krakow, Tarnow Branch. I hope to receive an answer within 2 weeks.
-Barb

tiagogorski

Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:39 am Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Unfortunately, I found nothing that could lead me further. Marian was born in 1899, Eugenia in 1900. I cannot find her birth record. I am not sure if Olpin is Ołpiny in (Lesser Voivodeship). There are over 600 km between the birthplaces of both. He was born Catholic, she Jewish. Later they belong to the Evangelical-Augsburg Church.
Marriage records are central to this search. They married between 1917-1924. I would say closer to 1924. Where? Not where he came from. It could be Olpin, where Eugenia was born or Kamien, where the first child was born. Where is Kamien located? Not necessarily in Lublin Voivodeship. Several places are called Kamien in Poland. We also have the birth of two children in the area of Wlodzimierz Wolynski (today's Ukraine). And finally, emigration to Brazil in 1931. A lot of moving.
It will not be an easy job to solve this puzzle.

-Barb

Yeah Barb, it is really tricky given the different locations we have information. My great-grandfather (Mariano) was taken prisoner of war and released after a while with the option of fighting for Poland, and my great-grandmother (Eugenia) was repairing soldiers' uniforms at the time, that's how they met, but considering it was wartime, it could have happened anywhere.

I got a birth register for Eugenia from a relative, I just received it by email this morning.

The certificate was sent by Archiwum Glowne Akt Dawnych, and it indicates that she was born in Olpiniu, and the certificate is from Wlodzimierz, signed by Pastor A. Schoen.

I don't know if this document helps much in the research. But is another confirmation that she was born in Olpin.
After some research I found that Olpin is the Yiddish pronucion of Olpiny: Ołpiny ([ɔu̯ˈpinɨ]; Yiddish: אלפין Olpin)

Was Jewish birth registration done in the same way as other religions at that time? Is really difficult to find anything related to Eugenia or her parents.

best!
Tiago

Certidao de Nascimento de Eugenia Gorski 1.pdf

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Eguenie Reichmann = Birth Record in Wlodzimierzu

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Certidao de Nascimento de Eugenia Gorski 1.pdf

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Tiago Gorski

BarbOslo
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 10:58 am Post subject:

Hallo,
It is the confirmation that Eugenia was baptized in 1927 in Dabrowa Cholopecz (the same place where her son Jozef was baptized).
It is not her birth record. She was baptized in the Synagogue, I think.

If you look in the last column, there is an annotation that she was born in Olpien province Stolin (Polesie). Olpien /Stolin (Polesie) is far from Ołpiny (Lesser Voivodeship).
I think it is not Ołpiny but Olpień (Stolin/Polesie, today Belarus) that is the correct place.
It will be interesting to see what the archive in Tarnow answers?
Jewish registration was similar.
-Barb

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tiagogorski

Joined: 23 Nov 2024
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Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 1:00 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

That is a good new information, that is why I was not finding any records of her and her parents in Poland. With this new information propably they married in the region and their first daugher (Apolonia Gorski) was born in belarus or maybe ukraine as well.

Did you make the request to the Archive in Tarnow already? If so lets see what they say, but with less expecations.. If not, I would suggest to not focus on the region of Olpiny-Tarnow given this new info you provided. Sorry for the confusion on this.

By any chance do you know online archives in belarus that I can research? I will also try to find something online.

Thanks best regards.
Tiago Gorski
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Tiago Gorski

tiagogorski

Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 1:50 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Barb,

The document of the ship that arrived in Buenos Aires with the familiy, indicates that Apolonia Gorski (First Daugther) was born in Polesien (doc attached). We cannot find this place during research, and talking to relatives we heard that she was born in Kamien, but this information seems wrong, and we have a connection with Eugenia birth place Olpien province Stolin (Polesie). Probably this reagion is were we may find any type of marriage record if it really exists.

best
Tiago Gorski

Apolonoa Gorski - Polesien.jpg

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Tiago Gorski

BarbOslo
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 6:13 pm Post subject:

Tiago,
I don't see anything online.
I'm a member of a site called Radzima.org. Found this there:
https://www.radzima.org/eng/object_comm/synagoge-1087.html
Yes, I emailed the archive this morning, but cancelled the order now.
Other useful page:
https://polesie.org/4355/o-pracy-panstwowego-archiwum-obwodu-brzeskiego/
Will write an email to this archive tomorrow.
-Barb

tiagogorski

Joined: 23 Nov 2024
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:37 am Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Thanks Barb.

I'll also send an email to Archiwum Główne Akt Dawnych, which sent the Eugenia record to a relative years ago, to see if they have more information about Marian Gorski (Great Grandfather) and Josef Gorski (Grandfather). With some lucky Mariano was also baptized in the Church in Wlodzimierz, and maybe we can find a marrage record.

At least we are managing to narrow down the search areas based on the information we have.

I found this contact of the Archiwum: [email protected]

Existe algum tipo de redação formal necessária neste tipo de solicitação, e ela deve ser escrita em polonês? É a primeira vez que faço uma solicitação como essa.

I've also found records of prisioner of Marian Gorski as a result of his participation on the great war. I'm going to open a new topic about this, so as not to mix it up with the research we're doing here.

Best!
Tiago
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Tiago Gorski

BarbOslo
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:02 pm Post subject:

Hi,
Wow. I see you found Julianna's death record in Prenzlau. Did you know that Franz and Julianna moved to Germany? Did you find Franz's death record too? Good job!
-Barb

tiagogorski

Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:41 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi,
Wow. I see you found Julianna's death record in Prenzlau. Did you know that Franz and Julianna moved to Germany? Did you find Franz's death record too? Good job!
-Barb

Hey Barb, yes! Found both. We know Franz and Julianna went from Poland to Prenzlau-Germany, but we don't know the reason. What we know is that after Mariano fought the soviet-polish war, and met his wife, Eugenie, he did all the way to Germany to find the parents in Prenzlau. As you know this took some years, and he got there with 3 childrens and 2 more were born in Prenzlau, before he came to Brazil.

So the Mariano road map is something like this: Olpin (Stolin/Polesie), Wlodzimierz-Wholynia, Prenzlau and then emigrated to south america.

Mariano's nephew, his sister's son (we think he had two sisters), once came to Brazil to visit him, and he lived in Berlin, so we know that part of the family is there, and I'm trying to make that connection too. Unfortunately, I only know this nephew's name by hearsay, so it's hard to find more information.

abraço!
Tiago

Franz Gorski Obito.jpg

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Franz Gorski - Death Record Prenzlau

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Juliane Gorski Obito.jpg

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Juliana deatch record Prenzlau

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Tiago Gorski

BarbOslo
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 6:43 pm Post subject:

Marianna Jung nee Gorski, who lived in Berlin, verbally informed about the death. Sister ?
I see that Franz and Julianna had a daughter named Marianna born 3.02.1902.

Last edited by BarbOslo on Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total

tiagogorski

Joined: 23 Nov 2024
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 7:02 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Marianna Jung nee Gorski, who lived in Berlin, verbally informed about the death. Sister ?
I see that Franz and Julianna had a daughter named Marianna born 2.03.1902.

Yes, the information I have is that the names of the sister and brothers are: Hans, Marianna and Martha, but I don't know anything else. Where did you find the info about Marianna?

abraço!
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Tiago Gorski

BarbOslo
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 7:51 pm Post subject:

B-Gorska Marianna, 1902.jpg

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tiagogorski

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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:41 am Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Yes, the information I have is that the names of the sister and brothers are: Hans, Marianna and Martha, but I don't know anything else. Where did you find the info about Marianna?

abraço!

I found her in the parish Wielki Komorsk. No.29.
-Barb[/quote]

Many Thanks Barb! It's incredible the amount of information that appeared and how the dots are gradually connecting.
I could find her death record in Berlin, which says that Herbert Walter Jung was her husbund.

If we look at the "Status Parentum" column, it seems to be a "2º" which may indicate that Marianna was the second child, is that correct? If so, we know by a fact that Mariano was born in 1899, so Martha and Hans were born after 1902.

I'm drafting the email to Archiwum Główne Akt Dawnych, any suggestion or formal writting is required on this type of request? Do they accept email in english or only polish (I can do it via translator as well)?

Have a nice one!

best
Tiago

Registro Morte Marianna Jung (GORSKI).jpg

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Marianna Jung death record.

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Tiago Gorski

Sophia
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:07 am Post subject:

[quote="tiagogorski"]

If we look at the "Status Parentum" column, it seems to be a "2º" which may indicate that Marianna was the second child, is that correct?

/quote]

Hi Tiago,
That is not correct. It looks like 2º but in fact it is "do" which is an abbreviation for the word "ditto" which means the same info applies in this row as in the row above it.
Best regards,
Sophia

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