ron.bolesta.522
Joined: 24 Feb 2025
Replies: 16
Location: Downingtown, PABack to top |
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 12:41 pm
Post subject: Seeking help to translate Polish document
Can you help translate 4 old latin files. They are each 4 or 5 lines long. They are Bolesta family members from the village of Bolesty Poland in the early 1800's. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you
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ron.bolesta.522
Joined: 24 Feb 2025
Replies: 16
Location: Downingtown, PABack to top |
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 5:58 pm
Post subject: seeking help in translating old latin
Hi Dave
I have been trying to find the correct link to post to you. I hope this is correct. I have 4 or 5 small 4 or 6 line clips thta I am hoping you might be able to translate for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. It deals with my great great great grandmother Marcella Bolesta in the early 1800s. The first file is Agnes Bolesta
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2895
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2025 10:06 am
Post subject: Re: Request for translation - Two birth records in Latin
| bigmakusa wrote: | Dave would appreciate it if you could translate the attached two birth records written in Latin from the Karpowicze parish in Podlasie:
Thanks |
Hi,
The translations follow.
Wishing you successful research,
Dave
Translations:
1824 Record
Far Left: The village of Karpowicze; Next Col.: 3
Body of Entry: In the Year of Our Lord 1824 on the twenty-third day of the month of December I, Jan Kuldinski of the Order of Preachers*, superior of the parish church of Karpowicze, baptized an infant by the name of Adam, born on the twelfth day of the current month and year, a son of the legitimate marital union of the industrious** Józef, the son of the late Jan and actually the grandson of Maciej, and of Krystyna from home (i.e. née) Swistunowna***, spouses Wasilewski. The sponsors were the industrious** Kazimierz Cymbar, a married man, with Maryanna Swistunowna***, a maiden, both from the village of Karpowicze.
Notes: *Order of Preachers i.e. the Dominican Order. When the pastor was a member of a mendicant order such as a Dominican or a Franciscan the parish house served as a friary and the pastor served the pastor of the parish while at the same time being the superior of the community of friars residing in the house. Thus the title “superior”.
**laboriosus/industrious: an adjective used to describe an individual as a peasant.
***-owna: old feminine suffix used for women which describes the lady in terms of “daughter of”. The masculine singular form of the surname is obtained by dropping the suffix. In contemporary Polish Krystyna’s maiden name would simply be the same as her father’s surname, Świstun,
1822 Record
Far Left: The village of Karpowicze; Next Col.: 3
Body of Entry: On the twenty-second day*** in the year 1822, I, who is above, baptized an infant by the name of Jan, the son of the legitimate marital union of the upright* Wawrzyniec Wasilewski and of Krystyna from home (i.e. née) Swistunowna**. The sponsors were Kacper Jakowski with Petronela Cymbarowna**.
Notes: *Honestus/upright: an adjective usually used for a farmer from a village or small town.
** -owna: old feminine suffix used for women which describes the lady in terms of “daughter of”. The masculine singular form of the surname is obtained by dropping the suffix. In contemporary Polish Krystyna’s maiden name would simply be the same as her father’s surname, Świstun.
***The month is most certainly named in earlier records on the page..
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2895
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2025 10:10 am
Post subject: Re: Seeking help to translate Polish document
| ron.bolesta.522 wrote: | | Can you help translate 4 old latin files. They are each 4 or 5 lines long. They are Bolesta family members from the village of Bolesty Poland in the early 1800's. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you |
Hi,
The 1809 and 1811 records are in Polish, not Latin. Translations of the 1815 & 1817 records follow. Regarding the 1819 screenshot, please see the comment below.
Wishing you successful research,
Dave Nowicki
Translations:
1817 Entry
Bolesty
In the Year of Our Lord 1817 on the fourth day of November, I, Józef S..cki(?) , the superior (pastor), baptized an infant by the name of Józef, born yesterday, a son of the legitimate marital union of the Noble* Adam Bolesta and Marcela from home (i.e. née) Bolescunka**. The sponsors were the Nobles Franciszek Bolesta and Zofia Jakubowska.
Notes: *Nobilis/Noble: Being a noble was the result of being of szlachta blood. Not all nobles were equal. Some were extremely wealthy whereas others were no more wealthy than well to do peasants. There existed various classes of nobles. Those recorded simply as “Nobles” were of the lowest level. They were either leaseholders or owners of a parcel of land. The next level of nobility were those members of the szlachta/gentry who were classified as generosus/well-born, who were owners or partial owners of a village. Although another branch of the Bolesta clan may have been the owners or partial owners of the village of Bolesty there is no documentary evidence to support the notion that your Bolesta relatives were of that level of nobility.
**The -cunka suffix is an old variant feminine suffix which required some euphonic modifications to the masculine singular form of the surname, which in this case was Bolesta. Although I’m familiar with how such euphonic changes came about I see no benefit to explaining the details of the process. In contemporary Polish her maiden name would simply be the same as her father’s surname, Bolesta.
1815 Entry
Bolesty
In the Year of Our Lord 1815 on the 14th day of April I, Jan Chilkiewicz , the superior (pastor), baptized an infant by the name of Jan, born today, a son of the legitimate marital union of the Nobles* Adam and Marcela from home (i.e. née) Bolestowna**, spouses Bolesta. The sponsors were the Nobles Jan Zawudzki with Zuzanna Zawudzka.
Notes: * Nobilis/Noble: cf. Note for above record.
**-owna suffix is another old feminine suffix, The masculine singular form of the surname here is obtained by dropping the suffix and adding the letter “a” to the stem of the surname. In contemporary Polish her maiden name would simply be the same as her father’s surname, Bolesta.
1819 Screenshot
1819 Maryanna Screenshot: The screenshot cut off part of the record. FYI Screenshots are among the worst ways to post a record for translation. A download is a much better option and a download together with the link to where the record is found online is even better. When a downloaded image exceeds the size allowed for attachments on the PO forum the link method solves that problem. Screenshots are pathetic and a source of aggravation for the translator. If you would like a translation of the 1819 entry please use one of the above options.
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2025 6:20 pm
Post subject:
Can someone translate this for me please 
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2895
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 3:55 am
Post subject:
| isamaricela wrote: | | Can someone translate this for me please |
Hi,
As you will see from the translation the amount of Latin to be translated is minimal. Given names of individuals are in Latin but Surnames and Place Names are in the vernacular. I translated the given names into their Polish version which is time and place appropriate. Obviously there is also an English version for the given names. Jan=John; Eliasz=Elias; Matrona is identical in Polish & in English; Bazyli=Basil; Katarzyna=Catherine; Mikołaj=Nicholas; Kosma=Cosmo.
It requires very little knowledge of Latin in order to understand the text. The use of a few Latin tools makes translating the important info found in such records a good DIY project. There are various Latin genealogical word lists floating around on the internet and years ago I compiled a list of Latin given names with their English and Polish versions which I will once again attach as a PDF document. There obviously are given names in Latin as used in other countries which are not included because they were very rarely used in Poland during the 19th Century and earlier. A good example would be Terentius, Terentii, m., Terrence, which was commonly used in Ireland but possibly never used in Eastern Europe.
I would encourage you to give DIY translating a try.
The translation follows.
Wishing you success,
Dave
Translation:
Col 1: Mensis = Month & Day of Wedding: November 1, 1874
Col. 2: Numerus Domus = House Number: 14
Col.3: Nomen = Name (of the groom):Jan Poniuch, son of the late Eliasz and Matrona (née) Szepak
Col. 4: Religio = Religion
Col. 4a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b: Aut Alia = Or Another: Blank
Col. 5: Aetas = Age: 22
Col. 6: Coelebs = Bachelor: Checked
Col. 7: Viduus = Widower: Blank
Col. 8: Nomen = Name (of the bride): Maria Lachowicz the daughter of Bazyli and of Katarzyna (née) Biłoniżka
Col. 9: Religio = Religion
Col. 9a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 9b: Aut Alia = Or Another: Blank
Col. 10: Aetas = Age: 19
Col. 11: Coelebs = Maiden: Checked
Col. 12: Vidua = Widow: Blank
Col. 13: Testes = Witnesses
Col. 13a: Nomen = Name(s): Mikołaj Lachowicz; Kosma Niedźwiedz
Col. 13b: Conditio = Condition/Status/Occupation: farner from Kropien; farmer from Zukowo(?)
The long text at bottom of the entry is legal housekeeping required by the Austrian Empire and has little, if any, genealogical value. The first part states that the groom received permission to marry from the minors’ and orphans’ court (instantia pupilaris) on October 30, 1874. The next section is in Ukrainian and is the statement of the father of the bride granting consent for his daughter to marry, The final section states that Jakub Kurczewicz, the pastor of the Greek (Eastern) Rite Catholic parish (Today known as the Ukrainian Rite Catholic parish) of Kropien and Zukowo(?) blessed the marriage.
All locations are in present day Ukraine.
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 11:56 pm
Post subject: Latin Marriage records
Dave,
Please translate two attached marriage records for Andreas Chojnacki. The record number is 9 in both documents.
herb43
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2895
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Latin Marriage records
| herb43 wrote: | Dave,
Please translate two attached marriage records for Andreas Chojnacki. The record number is 9 in both documents.
herb43 |
Hi Herb,
The two records you posted each contain the same information. It is the format which is different. One is in the short paragraph form and the other is in the columnar format. The short paragraph form is the ecclesiastical entry, which is the original and was written by the parish priest. As the original, it holds primacy for the accuracy of the content. The columnar format record is a civil copy made by a hired scribe from notes provided by the pastor of the parish. Scribes generally only worked on an occasional basis and often created the copy for the entire year at one fell swoop. This repetitive task was tedious and prone to error and it was rare that anyone proof read the scribes copy which was to be submitted to the Prussian civil authorities. As a copy it does not enjoy primacy for the accuracy of the content. Thus the names of the two witnesses in the civil copy should be considered to be an error. That, of course, is just a standard part of textual criticism which applies to texts from antiquity up until the present time.
The translations follow.
Wishing you success,
Dave
Short paragraph record: Far left col.: The name of the village: Podwiekowo(?)
Body of Entry: In the same year (1835) on the 20th day of September after the three proclamations of the banns had been made beforehand on three consecutive Sundays, the 11th, 12, & 13th Sundays after Pentecost, and since no impediment stood in the way, I blessed the marriage between the industrious* Andrzej Choynacki**, a bachelor, twenty-seven years of age, of the Catholic religion, and Anna Marcinkowska, a maiden, twenty-two years of age, of the Catholic religion, in the presence of Jakub Bugoniewski and Józef Choynacki**.
Notes: laboriosus/industrious: an adjective used to describe an individual as a peasant.
**Choynacki: The usual spelling prior to the 20th Century Polish spelling reforms. The current spelling of the surname is Chojnacki.
Columnar Format Record
Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the year): 9
Col. 2: Dies et Mensis Copulationis = The Day and Month of the Marriage: 1835 September 20
Col. 3: Nomen Sacerdotis Benedicentis Matrimonium = The Name of the Priest blessing the Marriage: As above
Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Copulatorum, demominato domicilii, status artis vel conditionis vitae, mentio trium promulgationum et quos nullum adfuit impedimentum = The First Name and Surname of those marrying, (their) place of residence, status of art or condition of life, mention of the three announcements of the banns and whether an impediment was present:
Andrzej Choynacki, a servant, a commoner; and Anna Marcinkowska, a maiden, a commoner from Podwiekowo (?); as above: The banns were announced and no impediment stood in the way.
Col. 5: Num copulati vel una pars eorum antea vinculo matrimonii obstricti aut obstricta fuit, num sub potestate patrentum vel tutorum existunt. = Whether one of them already had been bound by the state of matrimony or if not, whether they remained to this time under the tutelage of (their) parents or guardians: (Both) Emancipated (from paternal control)
Col. 6: Aetas = Age
Col. 6a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: 27
Col. 6b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: 23
Col. 7: Religio = Religion
Col. 7a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: Catholic
Col. 7b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: Catholic
Col. 8: Nomen et Cognomen Parentum = Given & Surname of the Parents
Col. 8a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: Choynacki
Col. 8b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: Marcinkowski
Col. 9: Num cum Consensu Parentum vel Tutorum vel Judicii Tutelaris Matrimonium Contractum Sit. = Whether the marriage was contracted with the Consent of the Parents or of the Guardians or of the Court of Guardianship: With Consent
Col. 10: Testes = Witnesses: Tomasz Walus and Ludwik Kiszowski --- this is a scribal error (cf. Introductory remarks.)
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2025 9:53 pm
Post subject:
Hi! Would anyone be able to translate this birth record from a parish in Iwonicz? Hugely appreciated! Largely confused because I haven't been able to find a translation for smemtho as an occupation.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2895
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2025 6:19 am
Post subject:
| cxtbol wrote: | | Hi! Would anyone be able to translate this birth record from a parish in Iwonicz? Hugely appreciated! Largely confused because I haven't been able to find a translation for smemtho as an occupation. |
Hi,
The reason that you were unable to find a translation for the word you transcribed as smemtho is because no such word exists in Latin. Notice the diacritic mark above a portion of the longhand word which resembles the circumflex accent in ancient Greek ~ or the tilde which is part of the letter eñe in Spanish as in mañana or Señor.
The diacritic is important because it signified that the word was contracted or in other words letters were omitted for the sake brevity of the script and those missing letters needed to be understood and supplied by the reader. The word written in full is semicmetho (also spelled semicmeto). The Polish version is półkmieć. The word as used in your record is an anachronism. It was one of the terms used in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for centuries as part of the old feudal vocabulary. The feudal system ended in Galicia aka Austrian Poland with the emancipation of the peasantry in 1848—a part of the events transpiring in Europe known as “The Spring of the Nations”. Finding the term used decades later is anachronistic. The diacritic with the same meaning in the father’s column and in the mother’s column over the word conjugum and in the mother’s column above the word legitimorum.
Diacritics are important in Polish and should not be ignored as they create distinct letters of the Polish Alphabet. The line at the top of the surname which appears like the crossing of a T is actually the Polish letter ł. In Polish the surname is Bołd rather than Bold. The dates of birth & baptism need to be coordinated with earlier entries in the columns on the far left. The info in those columns which is not of great genealogical import—the midwife: Maryanna Rygiel & Antoni Podgórski, the curate of the place, baptized him.
Translation of the father’s column: Paweł Bołd, a semi-self-sustaining farmer, the son of the marital union of Antoni Bołd and Teresa born of the father Tomasz Rygiel.
Translation of the mother’s column: Anna Telesz, the daughter of the legal parents Wojciech Telesz and Agata, born of the marriage of Adam Kielar.
As you can tell, one does not really need to be a Latin scholar to “translate” the data in the columnar format. The entries generally follow the same pattern and most of the information is names—given names in Latin & surnames in the vernacular (Polish). The use of a list of Latin given names and recognizing a very few other Latin words is all that is necessary. The attached vocabulary list of feudal social status terms should provide what is needed for records from Galicia prior to 1848.
Good luck with your research.
Dave
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Vocabulary Distinguishing Classes of Peasants, Nobles & Clergy 2022, 1 June.pdf |
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JGwizdowskiPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Replies: 233
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2025 6:43 pm
Post subject: Help needed deciphering 1865 marriage record
Greetings Dave!
When you are able and have some time, I could use your help with the attached marriage record from 1865. I'm able to pick out the names, but am unable to read/decipher/understand everything else.
I believe Nicolaus Maczka may be a sibling of my 2nd g.grandmother Marianna Maczka, about whom I've been unable to find any records. The groom's parents names are Antoni Maczka and Angnielis Urban. The rest is undecipherable to me and, I'm embarrassed to admit, It appears that the record is in a mix of Polish and Latin?
The relative ages and time-frames are consistent with what I might expect. My 2nd g.gmother Marianna married Wawrzyniec Jucha and this branch of my ancestry line has proven to be the final puzzle and most elusive in my research
I'm looking for any small bit of information within this record that can shed more clues for me to follow. I "think" I can see "Gwizdow" listed in the written information and another reference to "Maczka", but little else. Does it say where the groom was born? Anything about the parents? I am lost.
Greatly appreciate having your helpful and knowledgeable eyes to help me understand what information is hidden to me!
As always, thank you so much!
Joe
The link to the record is here, and is Scan #8, record no.10 on the right hand page...I tried to attach it to this post but couldn't get it to work.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/19914606
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2895
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2025 1:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Help needed deciphering 1865 marriage record
| JGwizdowski wrote: | Greetings Dave!
When you are able and have some time, I could use your help with the attached marriage record from 1865. I'm able to pick out the names, but am unable to read/decipher/understand everything else.
I believe Nicolaus Maczka may be a sibling of my 2nd g.grandmother Marianna Maczka, about whom I've been unable to find any records. The groom's parents names are Antoni Maczka and Angnielis Urban. The rest is undecipherable to me and, I'm embarrassed to admit, It appears that the record is in a mix of Polish and Latin?
The relative ages and time-frames are consistent with what I might expect. My 2nd g.gmother Marianna married Wawrzyniec Jucha and this branch of my ancestry line has proven to be the final puzzle and most elusive in my research
I'm looking for any small bit of information within this record that can shed more clues for me to follow. I "think" I can see "Gwizdow" listed in the written information and another reference to "Maczka", but little else. Does it say where the groom was born? Anything about the parents? I am lost.
Greatly appreciate having your helpful and knowledgeable eyes to help me understand what information is hidden to me!
As always, thank you so much!
Joe
The link to the record is here, and is Scan #8, record no.10 on the right hand page...I tried to attach it to this post but couldn't get it to work.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/19914606 |
Hi Joe,
Earlier when I tried to open the link the message “Portlet is temporarily unavailable” was all I got. Finally, now I was able to open the link so here is the down & dirty info and it does not look like there is much that can help you. Probably the reason you had difficulty with much of the data is due to the nature of the beast—the columnar format is not suitable for the addition of data not called for by the column headings, which makes the record much less than a pure joy to read. The way the data finds its way into the record is scattershot, like the register was placed on a wall and the scribe threw the data at it to see where it would stick without any real rhyme or reason. The Austrian government decided upon the columnar format soon after it took a share of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1772 (Ignoring the fact that it was in 1683 that Sobieski and the Polish hussars came to the aid of Austria as the Ottoman Turks were about to capture Vienna). The early registers had space for the neat entry of the required data. As time went by the government wanted more data included but did not bother to revise the format to provide space for the additional data which resulted in the scattershot entries such as we have here. I suppose you can tell that I’m not a fan although I’m fluent in both Latin and Polish. Now that I got that off my chest here is the real deal.
No, there is no info about the place of birth of the groom. The closest the record comes to that is that the bride who was residing in house #47 in Biedaczów was moving in to the groom’s residence in house #10 in Brzóza Stradnicka. Whether he was born there and/or whether his parents were still living there is an open question.
What you see as "Gwizdow" is the name of the parish—Giedlarowa, which appears as a 3rd Declension Latin adjective—Giedlaroviensis. It connects to the priest who blessed the marriage who was the curate of the parish—not genealogically helpful info. The second time you see the surname of the groom is in what purports to be the statement of the guardian of the bride granting consent for Agnieszka to marry Mikołaj Mączka. Statements such as this are legal fictions. The guardian most likely did not make the statement as it appears in the entry. It is much more likely that the priest asked the guardian: “Jan, (who probably is a male relative of the bride’s late father) do you give consent?” and Jan responded “tak” ((yes). Don’t you just love a bit of fiction?
The date of the wedding was November 14, 1865. The parents of the groom were as you stated. The parents of the bride were the late Marcin & Anna née Brudniak. The groom was 28 and the bride was 23 and, of course, they were both Catholics and were both single.
The legal notes give the dates of the banns as the 21, 22, & 23 Sundays after Pentecost. Included is the license number and the permission of the “instantia pupillaris” (Orphans & Minors Court). None of the legalities are helpful at all for your purposes.
That’s all there is. I hope something in the entry is a helpful clue for you.
Dave
P.S. Another bit of fiction...The second in command of the Ottoman army cane to the general and said: “The Austrians are coming out of the city gates.” The general replied: “Bring me my red shirt.” Second in command asked: “Is the red shirt your lucky shirt?” The general replied: “No, but if I am wounded I don’t want the men to know.” Second in command says: “Sobieski and the Polish hussars are here.” The general replied: “Bring me my brown pants.” You can guess the rest.
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JGwizdowskiPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Replies: 233
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2025 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Help needed deciphering 1865 marriage record
Dave...I can't thank you enough for your always thoughtful and informative translations and reflections. Your prose is every bit entertaining as they are historically educational! I always learn something from you, and for that I am most grateful.
In her 1899 will, Marianna left parcels of land in Brzóza Stradnicka, so this leads me to think my theory is taking me in the right direction.
I'll keep this record to the side and, perhaps, I'll be able to tie it to another piece of the puzzle that is sure to come along.
Thank You VERY Much!!!
| dnowicki wrote: | | JGwizdowski wrote: | Greetings Dave!
When you are able and have some time, I could use your help with the attached marriage record from 1865. I'm able to pick out the names, but am unable to read/decipher/understand everything else.
I believe Nicolaus Maczka may be a sibling of my 2nd g.grandmother Marianna Maczka, about whom I've been unable to find any records. The groom's parents names are Antoni Maczka and Angnielis Urban. The rest is undecipherable to me and, I'm embarrassed to admit, It appears that the record is in a mix of Polish and Latin?
The relative ages and time-frames are consistent with what I might expect. My 2nd g.gmother Marianna married Wawrzyniec Jucha and this branch of my ancestry line has proven to be the final puzzle and most elusive in my research
I'm looking for any small bit of information within this record that can shed more clues for me to follow. I "think" I can see "Gwizdow" listed in the written information and another reference to "Maczka", but little else. Does it say where the groom was born? Anything about the parents? I am lost.
Greatly appreciate having your helpful and knowledgeable eyes to help me understand what information is hidden to me!
As always, thank you so much!
Joe
The link to the record is here, and is Scan #8, record no.10 on the right hand page...I tried to attach it to this post but couldn't get it to work.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/19914606 |
Hi Joe,
Earlier when I tried to open the link the message “Portlet is temporarily unavailable” was all I got. Finally, now I was able to open the link so here is the down & dirty info and it does not look like there is much that can help you. Probably the reason you had difficulty with much of the data is due to the nature of the beast—the columnar format is not suitable for the addition of data not called for by the column headings, which makes the record much less than a pure joy to read. The way the data finds its way into the record is scattershot, like the register was placed on a wall and the scribe threw the data at it to see where it would stick without any real rhyme or reason. The Austrian government decided upon the columnar format soon after it took a share of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1772 (Ignoring the fact that it was in 1683 that Sobieski and the Polish hussars came to the aid of Austria as the Ottoman Turks were about to capture Vienna). The early registers had space for the neat entry of the required data. As time went by the government wanted more data included but did not bother to revise the format to provide space for the additional data which resulted in the scattershot entries such as we have here. I suppose you can tell that I’m not a fan although I’m fluent in both Latin and Polish. Now that I got that off my chest here is the real deal.
No, there is no info about the place of birth of the groom. The closest the record comes to that is that the bride who was residing in house #47 in Biedaczów was moving in to the groom’s residence in house #10 in Brzóza Stradnicka. Whether he was born there and/or whether his parents were still living there is an open question.
What you see as "Gwizdow" is the name of the parish—Giedlarowa, which appears as a 3rd Declension Latin adjective—Giedlaroviensis. It connects to the priest who blessed the marriage who was the curate of the parish—not genealogically helpful info. The second time you see the surname of the groom is in what purports to be the statement of the guardian of the bride granting consent for Agnieszka to marry Mikołaj Mączka. Statements such as this are legal fictions. The guardian most likely did not make the statement as it appears in the entry. It is much more likely that the priest asked the guardian: “Jan, (who probably is a male relative of the bride’s late father) do you give consent?” and Jan responded “tak” ((yes). Don’t you just love a bit of fiction?
The date of the wedding was November 14, 1865. The parents of the groom were as you stated. The parents of the bride were the late Marcin & Anna née Brudniak. The groom was 28 and the bride was 23 and, of course, they were both Catholics and were both single.
The legal notes give the dates of the banns as the 21, 22, & 23 Sundays after Pentecost. Included is the license number and the permission of the “instantia pupillaris” (Orphans & Minors Court). None of the legalities are helpful at all for your purposes.
That’s all there is. I hope something in the entry is a helpful clue for you.
Dave
P.S. Another bit of fiction...The second in command of the Ottoman army cane to the general and said: “The Austrians are coming out of the city gates.” The general replied: “Bring me my red shirt.” Second in command asked: “Is the red shirt your lucky shirt?” The general replied: “No, but if I am wounded I don’t want the men to know.” Second in command says: “Sobieski and the Polish hussars are here.” The general replied: “Bring me my brown pants.” You can guess the rest. |
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"As long as we are remembered, we remain alive."
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Roman Kaluzniacki
Joined: 05 Apr 2025
Replies: 1
Location: Maryland, USABack to top |
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2025 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Latin Marriage records
| dnowicki wrote: | | herb43 wrote: | Dave,
Please translate two attached marriage records for Andreas Chojnacki. The record number is 9 in both documents.
herb43 |
Hi Herb,
The two records you posted each contain the same information. It is the format which is different. One is in the short paragraph form and the other is in the columnar format. The short paragraph form is the ecclesiastical entry, which is the original and was written by the parish priest. As the original, it holds primacy for the accuracy of the content. The columnar format record is a civil copy made by a hired scribe from notes provided by the pastor of the parish. Scribes generally only worked on an occasional basis and often created the copy for the entire year at one fell swoop. This repetitive task was tedious and prone to error and it was rare that anyone proof read the scribes copy which was to be submitted to the Prussian civil authorities. As a copy it does not enjoy primacy for the accuracy of the content. Thus the names of the two witnesses in the civil copy should be considered to be an error. That, of course, is just a standard part of textual criticism which applies to texts from antiquity up until the present time.
The translations follow.
<skip>
...
Col. 10: Testes = Witnesses: Tomasz Walus and Ludwik Kiszowski --- this is a scribal error (cf. Introductory remarks.) |
In this case we can easily confirm the scribal error. The listed witnesses were actually witnesses for the next recorded baptism in the original book.
Roman
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