Tina_C
Joined: 5 Days ago at 5:20 am
Replies: 4
Location: DenmarkBack to top |
Posted: 5 Days ago at 6:10 am
Post subject: Maria Michalowska/Michalzowska born 1893/97 in Grabki
Hello,
I am Danish and just recently disovered that my maternal great-grandmother was Polish! I have been looking into my family's history, but it is very difficult to find information about my great-grandmother and her parents/siblings/relatives.
The problem is that in Danish archives, her name is spelled in many different ways. First she is listed as Maria and then later Marie (which was more common in Denmark). From my understanding of Polish names, she could even originally be called Marianna?
Her last name is listed as Michalowska, Michalska, Michalzowska and several variants of this. Probably due to Danish ears not being used to hearing Polish names and getting them wrong when writing them down... 
Her birthdate is also different in various Danish documents such as churchbooks and censuses: 10 May 1897, 16 May 1897, 16 May 1893, 23 May 1893! Even the churchbooks do not agree... Her death certificate states 16 May 1897.
What I know for a fact:
She came to Denmark around 1915 to work on farms, mostly as a milk maid. She met a man called Jens Johansen (my maternal great-grandfather) and married him in 1921 and had 4 children: Else, Holger, Gunnar and Oluf. She died in November 1945.
In the Danish churchbook with her wedding to Jens her birth place is listed as Grabki, Poland. She was baptised in Szydlow 26 June 1897. Here her parents are stated to be Martin and Valeria - I presume the Polish names would be Marcin and Waleria? Her father was a carpenter according to the churchbook entry listing her death.
I have tried searching Geneteka, but I cannot see a scan of the only result I found in Swiętokrzyskie province:
Marianna Michalczewska, born 1893 Szydłów, Grabki, parents Marcin and ?
Is there any way to find out her precise name and birth date? I would of course also be very interested in knowing if she had any siblings.
I appreciate any help I can get which can point me in the right direction. 
- Tina
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1668
Location: NorwayBack to top |
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 588
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Posted: 5 Days ago at 7:44 am
Post subject: Re: Maria Michalowska/Michalzowska born 1893/97 in Grabki
| Tina_C wrote: | Hello,
I am Danish and just recently disovered that my maternal great-grandmother was Polish! I have been looking into my family's history, but it is very difficult to find information about my great-grandmother and her parents/siblings/relatives.
The problem is that in Danish archives, her name is spelled in many different ways. First she is listed as Maria and then later Marie (which was more common in Denmark). From my understanding of Polish names, she could even originally be called Marianna?
Her last name is listed as Michalowska, Michalska, Michalzowska and several variants of this. Probably due to Danish ears not being used to hearing Polish names and getting them wrong when writing them down...
Her birthdate is also different in various Danish documents such as churchbooks and censuses: 10 May 1897, 16 May 1897, 16 May 1893, 23 May 1893! Even the churchbooks do not agree... Her death certificate states 16 May 1897.
What I know for a fact:
She came to Denmark around 1915 to work on farms, mostly as a milk maid. She met a man called Jens Johansen (my maternal great-grandfather) and married him in 1921 and had 4 children: Else, Holger, Gunnar and Oluf. She died in November 1945.
In the Danish churchbook with her wedding to Jens her birth place is listed as Grabki, Poland. She was baptised in Szydlow 26 June 1897. Here her parents are stated to be Martin and Valeria - I presume the Polish names would be Marcin and Waleria? Her father was a carpenter according to the churchbook entry listing her death.
I have tried searching Geneteka, but I cannot see a scan of the only result I found in Swiętokrzyskie province:
Marianna Michalczewska, born 1893 Szydłów, Grabki, parents Marcin and ?
Is there any way to find out her precise name and birth date? I would of course also be very interested in knowing if she had any siblings.
I appreciate any help I can get which can point me in the right direction.
- Tina |
Hi Tina and Barb,
Tina, welcome to the forum.
Barb, great find! I did see the marriage year for Marcin and Waleria on Geneteka. Is this record online?
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=13sk&rid=S&search_lastname=michal*&search_name=marcin&search_lastname2=&search_name2=wal*&from_date=1887&to_date=1887
Regards,
Trish
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1668
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: 5 Days ago at 10:33 am
Post subject:
Trish, can you tell me what year they got married?
-Barb
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 588
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Posted: 5 Days ago at 10:45 am
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Trish, can you tell me what year they got married?
-Barb |
Hi Barb,
I blame this new computer for the wrong link. Haha
Marcin and Waleria married in 1887. Record #4. It's a different Parish. It's Pierzchnica.
Year: 1887
Record #4
Groom: Marcin Michalczewski
Groom's Parents: Józef, Marianna Gajewska
Bride: Waleria Pędzik
Bride's Parents: Wojciech, Wiktoria Czajecka
Parish:Pierzchnica
Warm Regards,
Trish
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1668
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: 5 Days ago at 11:19 am
Post subject:
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1668
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: 5 Days ago at 12:47 pm
Post subject:
Date: January 23, 1887
Place: Parish Przechnica
Groom: Michalczewski Marcin, a bachelor, 32 years old, born in the village of Holendry parish Chmielnik, living with his parents in Przechnica, the son of Józef Michalczewski and Marianna née Gajewska the Michalczewski spouses.
Bride: Pendzik Waleria, a miss, 22 years old, born in the village Stawy parish Imielno, living with her parents in Strojnów, a daughter of Wojciech Pendzik and Wiktoria née Czajecka the Pendzik spouses.
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Tina_C
Joined: 5 Days ago at 5:20 am
Replies: 4
Location: DenmarkBack to top |
Posted: 4 Days ago at 2:01 am
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Date: January 23, 1887
Place: Parish Przechnica
Groom: Michalczewski Marcin, a bachelor, 32 years old, born in the village of Holendry parish Chmielnik, living with his parents in Przechnica, the son of Józef Michalczewski and Marianna née Gajewska the Michalczewski spouses.
Bride: Pendzik Waleria, a miss, 22 years old, born in the village Stawy parish Imielno, living with her parents in Strojnów, a daughter of Wojciech Pendzik and Wiktoria née Czajecka the Pendzik spouses. |
Hi Barb and Trish,
Thanks for your help and quick replies!
I find it a bit difficult to navigate in documents I cannot read at all so I tried using Gemini to read and translate, but I'm not sure its results can be trusted? How do you read/translate the churchbook entries? Gemini was very adamant that Marianna's mother's name was Rozalia and that Marcin married a Wiktoria, and it was clear that it thought everyone else was wrong.
Incidentially, I've located Marcin and Waleria on MyMeritage which children listed as Adolf and Josef, no Marianna. However, I've come across many family trees with missing members including my own relatives which I know should be in those family tress. Perhaps she is missing because she left Poland and never returned.
- Tina
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 588
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Posted: 4 Days ago at 8:15 am
Post subject:
| Tina_C wrote: | | BarbOslo wrote: | Date: January 23, 1887
Place: Parish Przechnica
Groom: Michalczewski Marcin, a bachelor, 32 years old, born in the village of Holendry parish Chmielnik, living with his parents in Przechnica, the son of Józef Michalczewski and Marianna née Gajewska the Michalczewski spouses.
Bride: Pendzik Waleria, a miss, 22 years old, born in the village Stawy parish Imielno, living with her parents in Strojnów, a daughter of Wojciech Pendzik and Wiktoria née Czajecka the Pendzik spouses. |
Hi Barb and Trish,
Thanks for your help and quick replies!
I find it a bit difficult to navigate in documents I cannot read at all so I tried using Gemini to read and translate, but I'm not sure its results can be trusted? How do you read/translate the churchbook entries? Gemini was very adamant that Marianna's mother's name was Rozalia and that Marcin married a Wiktoria, and it was clear that it thought everyone else was wrong.
Incidentially, I've located Marcin and Waleria on MyMeritage which children listed as Adolf and Josef, no Marianna. However, I've come across many family trees with missing members including my own relatives which I know should be in those family tress. Perhaps she is missing because she left Poland and never returned.
- Tina |
Hi Tina and Barb,
Tina, please do not trust AI for genealogy. It could lead you to the wrong family.
Barb, are these all of the the children of Marcin and Waleria? Is Zofia their daughter? The spelling of the mother's (Waleria) surname is different. It also looks like Marcin was born in 1854. Marcin died in 1909.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=13sk&rid=B&search_lastname=Michalczewski&search_name=marcin&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=
Regards,
Trish
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1668
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: 4 Days ago at 1:34 pm
Post subject:
Hi Tina & Trish,
Here are the children I managed to find, though there may be more. I am including their dates and places of birth.
2.11.1887 Adolf - Grabki parish Szydłów
5.01.1890 Stanisława - Strojnów parish Pierzchnica
6.12.1891 Józef - Grabki parish Szydłów
16.11.1893 Marianna - Grabki parish Szydłów
abt. 1895 Julian, died 29.04.1919 - Kamionna parish Sokolina
abt. 1901 Jan - Piotrkowice, died 16.08.1914 - Kamionna parish Sokolina
27.02.1904 Józefa - Drugnia parish Drugnia
29.04.1907 Zofia - Skrobaczów parish Stopnica
Med venlig hilsen
-Barb
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Tina_C
Joined: 5 Days ago at 5:20 am
Replies: 4
Location: DenmarkBack to top |
Posted: Yesterday at 4:12 am
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Hi Tina & Trish,
Here are the children I managed to find, though there may be more. I am including their dates and places of birth.
2.11.1887 Adolf - Grabki parish Szydłów
5.01.1890 Stanisława - Strojnów parish Pierzchnica
6.12.1891 Józef - Grabki parish Szydłów
16.11.1893 Marianna - Grabki parish Szydłów
abt. 1895 Julian, died 29.04.1919 - Kamionna parish Sokolina
abt. 1901 Jan - Piotrkowice, died 16.08.1914 - Kamionna parish Sokolina
27.02.1904 Józefa - Drugnia parish Drugnia
29.04.1907 Zofia - Skrobaczów parish Stopnica
Med venlig hilsen
-Barb |
Thank you both, Barb and Trish, for all this interesting information! This certainly expands my family tree!
Trish, rest assured that I do not trust AI much in general so I will not rely on it for fact finding. I was merely curious as to what the text in the churchbooks said as it looked like a "story" and not just the few facts that I am used to from Danish churchbooks.
- Tina
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Tina_C
Joined: 5 Days ago at 5:20 am
Replies: 4
Location: DenmarkBack to top |
Posted: 14 hours ago at 4:18 am
Post subject:
Hi Barb,
Could I trouble you with asking for the direct archive link for this scan of the church record, if possible? I like to save as much information as possible including both links and scans. Hopefully this will also enable me to start checking records myself one day if I have a good starting point i.e. an example that I know is correct.
- Tina
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1625
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Posted: 13 hours ago at 5:05 am
Post subject:
| Tina_C wrote: |
I was merely curious as to what the text in the churchbooks said as it looked like a "story" and not just the few facts that I am used to from Danish churchbooks.
- Tina |
Hi Tina,
I want to answer this one part of your question about what is actually said in the "story" of the marriage record. Genealogy records sometimes are in a table format, where pulling information from them is simple, and other times they are in the paragraph format. The difficult part of the paragraph format is that the sentences are very long and it can be confusing to know what is being said. Because Polish and Russian are inflected languages, the names of people and places will have grammatical endings attached to them. For example, on another recent thread here on the forum, one sentence from a paragraph-format marriage record includes the name "Jozefem Grabowskim" and you need to subtract the endings to know that this means the man's name was Jozef Grabowski. For this reason, when Barb is helping people on the forum, she finds it more useful to them if she extracts the names, dates and places rather than giving the whole paragraph translation.
Since you are interested in the topic, I am attaching a link to an online guide that will give you very good examples of birth, marriage and death records. Scroll about halfway down the page and read her translation of a marriage record which is in the paragraph form. This will basically be what your record also says.
https://martamackowiak.com/en/how-to-read-polish-vital-records-written-in-russian/
Best regards,
Sophia
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