J-Gen-Expert
Joined: 04 Jul 2025
Replies: 8
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:44 am
Post subject:
Thank you for catching my error. I apologize for my having confused Harriet and Helene. I should have been more careful!
Just so you know, I am actually working on detailing out the family tree connections of 3 Altholz (Altholtz) clans and their ancestral origins (Dukla / Krosno / Cheblia / Jaslo). I got in touch with an elderly Shoah survivor Meilech (Max) Hirschhorn z"l (1907 - 2010) back in 1993 and obtained a lot of Altholtz (Altholz) family tree data from him, plus got in touch with USA Altholtz (Altholz) members of that branch. As such I compiled (and recently updated) an extensive family tree of that branch.
Max Hirschhorn was born in Dukla. He was the son of Mindel Altholtz and Yossel Hirschhorn. Mindel was the daughter of Yisroel Altholtz & Tzivia Gartner who were born circa 1839 or earlier, based on their oldest known offspring, Avrum Mordechai (Max) Altholtz's birth year (1858). He died in NYC in 1908. D NYC/M 1908 # 7769 3/5/1908. His death record is not yet digitized. He is buried at Washington Cemetery. FindAGrave has a photograph of his tombstone!
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/165350777/max-altholtz
The interesting thing about the Polish (actually old Austro-Hungarian Empire) birth records is that they included the names of the maternal grandparents and their town and occupations and whether or not they were still living! I already came across several Altholz / Altholtz birth records from other parts of Poland but determined directly from the birth record data that the maternal grandparents were from Dukla.
I also discovered and extensively documented a huge branch of the Altholtz (Altholz) clan from Brzozow (based on the Brzozow censuses and circumstantial evidence, that their matriarch was from the Altholtz / Altholz clan). If my hypothesis is correct that I will be be able to include their family circle of 2,000+ (!) descendents which I shall redesignate as Altholtz Clan # 4!
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J-Gen-Expert
Joined: 04 Jul 2025
Replies: 8
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:52 pm
Post subject:
I apologize for the mix up. I am simultaneously working on detailing out Ella Kleiner's father's Josef Altholz's family tree and the Mechel Altholz family tree. I am also in touch with a descendent of Mechel's clan.
They've gone a long way in researching and documenting their Mechel Altholz descendents clan, as well as writing up the details of their Shoah survivor parent's WW2 and DP camp experiences and starting over in the USA.
Their excellent articles were published by the Forward and even included stunning old black-and-white family photos. Moreover, at least 2 members of their clan were interviewed and videotaped. Those Shoah survivor interviews were well done, quite interesting and very informative!!!!!
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 2:03 pm
Post subject:
| J-Gen-Expert wrote: | I apologize for the mix up. I am simultaneously working on detailing out Ella Kleiner's father's Josef Altholz's family tree and the Mechel Altholz family tree. I am also in touch with a descendent of Mechel's clan.
They've gone a long way in researching and documenting their Mechel Altholz descendents clan, as well as writing up the details of their Shoah survivor parent's WW2 and DP camp experiences and starting over in the USA.
Their excellent articles were published by the Forward and even included stunning old black-and-white family photos. Moreover, at least 2 members of their clan were interviewed and videotaped. Those Shoah survivor interviews were well done, quite interesting and very informative!!!!! |
Very cool! I am so happy to hear about all of your research on the Altholz lineage in this region. Happy to continue talking in PM if you have any questions or just think I could be of some help in piecing things together.
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J-Gen-Expert
Joined: 04 Jul 2025
Replies: 8
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 2:39 pm
Post subject:
I apologize for the mix up. I am simultaneously working on detailing out Ella Kleiner's father's Josef Altholz's family tree and the Mechel Altholz family tree. I am in touch with a descendent of Mechel's.
Mechel's clan is extensively documented. They also published articles in the Forward about their parents' Shoah survivor experiences as well as the DP camps as well as how they got to the USA and started over. The aforementioned articles incude stunning old black-and-white family photos. Also at least 2 of their clan's Shoah survivors were interviewed and videotaped for posterity. Well done, very interesting and informative interviews.
Altholz / Altholtz Clan # 3: Incidently, back in 1993 I got in touch with an elderly Shoah survivor from Dukla, Max Hirschhorn z"l (1907 -2010) who shared what he knew first-hand about the Dukla Altholz / Altholtz clans. He had a vivid and excellent memory. He was the son of Mindel Altholtz and Yossel Hirschhorn. His maternal grandparents were Yisroel Altholtz and Tzivia Gartner (born circa 1839 or earlier, based on their oldest known offspring Avrum Mordechai (Max) Altholtz's birth year of 1858). He died in 1908 and is buried in Washington Cemetery. FindAGrave has an excellent photo of his monument:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/165350777/max-altholtz
I have thoroughly documented Altholtz / Altholz Clan # 3 based on personal interviews as well as federal census data, Ellis Island records, naturalization records, obituaries, old newspapers, announcements, miscellaneous sources and a lot of Google searches. It's fairly up to date.
Probable Altholz / Altholtz Clan # 4 (I think): There appears to be a Brzozow branch of the Altholtz / Altholz clan whose matriarch's maiden name (not recorded in the Brzozow censuses or Brzozow vital records) may have been Altholtz (based on circumstantial evidence) . According to some of their descendents z"l they were related to the Altholtz / Altholz clan. Moreover, a grandson's NYC death record listed his mother's maiden name as "Althaus". So it appears that his maternal grandmother, enumerated by the 1869 Brzozow census, was probably an Altholtz. The grandson's parents emigrated to the USA during the 1880s. His mother died in Central Islip (Suffolk County) in 1906. It could take up to 8 months to obtain a copy of her death record which hopefully should list her mother's maiden name. If my hypothesis is correct and I'm able to confirm the Altholtz connection that will add more that 2,000 descendents (including spouses). Back in those days children didn't automatically inherit their father's surname unless their parents were legally married (ritual marriage Ketubahs didn't satisfy the requirements). Otherwise the offspring were "nieslubne" and in accordance with laws in effect at that time inherited their mother's family name. If the parents subsequently obtained a civil ceremony and provided proof of marriage as well as the father and mother appeared in person at the place where the birth records were originally recorded, the offsprings' birth records would be amended accordingly, along with the father's name written in, as well as remarks noted thereon as to the place, date, documentation Akt #s. Many couples at that time only had ritual marriages. It wasn't until the 1930s that someone could fill out and file an affidavit and self-declare their father 's name and switch from the mother's surname to the father's surname.
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J-Gen-Expert
Joined: 04 Jul 2025
Replies: 8
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:06 pm
Post subject:
I apologize for the mix up. I am simultaneously working on detailing out Ella Kleiner's father's Josef Altholz's family tree and the Mechel Altholz family tree. I am in touch with a descendent of Mechel's.
Mechel's clan is extensively documented. They also published articles in the Forward about their parents' Shoah survivor experiences as well as the DP camps as well as how they got to the USA and started over. The aforementioned articles incude stunning old black-and-white family photos. Also at least 2 of their clan's Shoah survivors were interviewed and videotaped for posterity. Well done, very interesting and informative interviews.
Altholz / Altholtz Clan # 3: Incidently, back in 1993 I got in touch with an elderly Shoah survivor from Dukla, Max Hirschhorn z"l (1907 -2010) who shared what he knew first-hand about the Dukla Altholz / Altholtz clans. He had a vivid and excellent memory. He was the son of Mindel Altholtz and Yossel Hirschhorn. His maternal grandparents were Yisroel Altholtz and Tzivia Gartner (born circa 1839 or earlier, based on their oldest known offspring Avrum Mordechai (Max) Altholtz's birth year of 1858). He died in 1908 and is buried in Washington Cemetery. FindAGrave has an excellent photo of his monument:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/165350777/max-altholtz
I have thoroughly documented Altholtz / Altholz Clan # 3 based on personal interviews as well as federal census data, Ellis Island records, naturalization records, obituaries, old newspapers, announcements, miscellaneous sources and a lot of Google searches. It's fairly up to date.
Probable Altholz / Altholtz Clan # 4 (I think): There appears to be a Brzozow branch of the Altholtz / Altholz clan whose matriarch's maiden name (not recorded in the Brzozow censuses or Brzozow vital records) may have been Altholtz (based on circumstantial evidence) . According to some of their descendents z"l they were related to the Altholtz / Altholz clan. Moreover, a grandson's NYC death record listed his mother's maiden name as "Althaus". So it appears that his maternal grandmother, enumerated by the 1869 Brzozow census, was probably an Altholtz. The grandson's parents emigrated to the USA during the 1880s. His mother died in Central Islip (Suffolk County) in 1906. It could take up to 8 months to obtain a copy of her death record which hopefully should list her mother's maiden name. If my hypothesis is correct and I'm able to confirm the Altholtz connection that will add more that 2,000 descendents (including spouses). Back in those days children didn't automatically inherit their father's surname unless their parents were legally married (ritual marriage Ketubahs didn't satisfy the requirements). Otherwise the offspring were "nieslubne" and in accordance with laws in effect at that time inherited their mother's family name. If the parents subsequently obtained a civil ceremony and provided proof of marriage as well as the father and mother appeared in person at the place where the birth records were originally recorded, the offsprings' birth records would be amended accordingly, along with the father's name written in, as well as remarks noted thereon as to the place, date, documentation Akt #s. Many couples at that time only had ritual marriages. It wasn't until the 1930s that someone could fill out and file an affidavit and self-declare their father 's name and switch from the mother's surname to the father's surname.
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