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mattyj1202



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Replies: 43
Location: Caldwell, NJ

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:04 pm      Post subject: Need A Second Eye: Polish Death Record in Russian
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Hi all,

I've done extensive research, but since Russian characters aren't something I'm totally comfortable reading, I need a hand...

I'm looking for the death record of my great-great-grandfather, Jakub Kutner. From a Lodz census record from 1903-1931, it is noted that he died 3 November 1905 (approx 66 years old), but it doesn't indicate where. From what we can tell, he and his family lived in Lodz for quite some time and at least 4 of his children were married there (either at NMP parish or sw. Krzyz parish), but we're not certain they lived in Lodz when Jakub died. We know that he was born in Kolonia Lipicze on 24 June 1839 to parents Chryzostom Kutner and Magdalena Bednarz.

Would someone(s) mind please searching Lodz 1904-1906 death records for Roman Catholic parishes and let me know if you locate the record? Please note that I've seen the last name spelled Kutner, Hutner, Chutner, (Kubner and Chulner also), so it might be one of those spellings. Jakub's wife was Marianna Roszak, and we know that she survived him and was alive in 1906.

Similarly, I would love to locate Marianna (Roszak) Kutner's death record. She was alive in 1906, and after that, we don't have any records that mention her. She was born April 18, 1850 in Gonice (Staw Parish), so she would've been at least 56 years old in 1906...

Any help would be very much appreciated - I feel like we may just be overlooking it...

Thank you!

Matt
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marcelproust
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:00 pm      Post subject: Re: Need A Second Eye: Polish Death Record in Russian
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mattyj1202 wrote:
Hi all,

I've done extensive research, but since Russian characters aren't something I'm totally comfortable reading, I need a hand...

I'm looking for the death record of my great-great-grandfather, Jakub Kutner. From a Lodz census record from 1903-1931, it is noted that he died 3 November 1905 (approx 66 years old), but it doesn't indicate where. From what we can tell, he and his family lived in Lodz for quite some time and at least 4 of his children were married there (either at NMP parish or sw. Krzyz parish), but we're not certain they lived in Lodz when Jakub died. We know that he was born in Kolonia Lipicze on 24 June 1839 to parents Chryzostom Kutner and Magdalena Bednarz.

Would someone(s) mind please searching Lodz 1904-1906 death records for Roman Catholic parishes and let me know if you locate the record? Please note that I've seen the last name spelled Kutner, Hutner, Chutner, (Kubner and Chulner also), so it might be one of those spellings. Jakub's wife was Marianna Roszak, and we know that she survived him and was alive in 1906.

Similarly, I would love to locate Marianna (Roszak) Kutner's death record. She was alive in 1906, and after that, we don't have any records that mention her. She was born April 18, 1850 in Gonice (Staw Parish), so she would've been at least 56 years old in 1906...

Any help would be very much appreciated - I feel like we may just be overlooking it...

Thank you!

Matt

can You please attach the łódź census record You mentioned in your post?

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]


Last edited by marcelproust on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mattyj1202



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Location: Caldwell, NJ

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:02 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you, Marcel - hope you're well!

M
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:21 pm      Post subject:
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mattyj1202 wrote:
Thank you, Marcel - hope you're well!

M


can You please attach the Łódź census record You mentioned in your post?

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]


Last edited by marcelproust on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mattyj1202



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Location: Caldwell, NJ

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:34 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Marcel,

Sure - here is a link to the PDF that contains Lodz census records for Jakub, his children, and their families:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wn1c6hqo1sp9hak/AACwSZgqvd6y1rHnQBGquFRva?dl=0

You'll see the documentation for Jakub's death on the first page, row 1, far right column notation.

Thanks!

M
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:08 pm      Post subject:
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mattyj1202 wrote:
Hi Marcel,

Sure - here is a link to the PDF that contains Lodz census records for Jakub, his children, and their families:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wn1c6hqo1sp9hak/AACwSZgqvd6y1rHnQBGquFRva?dl=0

You'll see the documentation for Jakub's death on the first page, row 1, far right column notation.

Thanks!

M


i have checked 3 Łódź parishes without any result. i think you should email Łódź State Archives. They will make a research for You.

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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mattyj1202



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Location: Caldwell, NJ

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:24 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks, Marcel. To confirm, which 3 parishes did you check? You checked all the spelling variations I mentioned?

I've actually already contacted the Lodz State Archives, but I had only asked them to check the "Kutner" spelling, so this double check is helpful. If we cannot locate it this way, I'll be reaching out to the Lodz Civil Registry to see if they can locate these records.

As always, thank you!

M
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:48 pm      Post subject:
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mattyj1202 wrote:
Thanks, Marcel. To confirm, which 3 parishes did you check? You checked all the spelling variations I mentioned?

I've actually already contacted the Lodz State Archives, but I had only asked them to check the "Kutner" spelling, so this double check is helpful. If we cannot locate it this way, I'll be reaching out to the Lodz Civil Registry to see if they can locate these records.

As always, thank you!

M


i have checked year 1905:

1) http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryki.php?op=sy&ar=3&zs=1563d
2) http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryki.php?op=sy&ar=3&zs=1564d
3) http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryki.php?op=sy&ar=3&zs=1562d

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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mattyj1202



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:53 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks, Marcel - spelling variations as well?
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:09 pm      Post subject:
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mattyj1202 wrote:
Thanks, Marcel - spelling variations as well?


Kutner/Hutner/Chutner

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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mattyj1202



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:33 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you very much, Marcel - I appreciate it!
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Natalia



Joined: 03 Jun 2019
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:21 pm      Post subject: Re: Need A Second Eye: Polish Death Record in Russian
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mattyj1202 wrote:
Hi all,
Similarly, I would love to locate Marianna (Roszak) Kutner's death record. She was alive in 1906, and after that, we don't have any records that mention her. She was born April 18, 1850 in Gonice (Staw Parish), so she would've been at least 56 years old in 1906...
Any help would be very much appreciated - I feel like we may just be overlooking it...
Thank you!
Matt


Hello.
Most likely, this is the record of Marianna Kutner's death.
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=3&zs=1562d&sy=1907&kt=21&plik=2155-2160.jpg

2156.
Łódź. It happened in the city of Łódź on the 2nd /15th/ of October 1907 at 9 a.m. Appeared Stefan Kutner and Józef Kowalczyk, day laborers, of age, from Łódź, and declared that yesterday at 9 p.m. died in Łódź Marianna Kutner, widow, residing with her children, 59 years old, born in the district town Turek, to unknown by names parents to witnesses. After eye belief about Marianna Kutner’s death this act was written down and was read to the declarants.

Natalia
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mattyj1202



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:41 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Natalia,

That’s it - thank you so much! Great find!

A few people have searched, but any chance you see Jakub’s death record in 1905?

MJ
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Natalia



Joined: 03 Jun 2019
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:04 pm      Post subject:
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By the way, 311 isn't 3 November. Then in Russia the correct date format was 3 November 1905 or 3.XI.1905. Probably, 311 is the number of record about Jakub's death in some book that was keeping in the administration or police station of the area where Jakub Kutner lived. In this census document that you attached there is a number 2880/905. That is there were at least 2880 entries in the book, and most likely the entry number 311 was made at the beginning of the year.
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mattyj1202



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:45 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Natalia,

This is a very interesting observation. Any thoughts about how I can find out what book/document this 311 number may be referencing? It seems likely now that Jakub didn't necessarily die in 1905, but Marianna's death record from 1906 notes that she's a widow, so Jakub predeceased her.

Any further help you can offer would be outstanding - these leads are significant.

Thank you!

Matt
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