Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:42 pm
Post subject: i have a polish document and need help
i have a polish document that i think is his birth certificate. but it is dated in 1933 when he was born in 1911. furthermore, in 1933 he was living in france so why is the document written in polish in 1933?
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2950
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: i have a polish document and need help
| rebeccasieb wrote: | | i have a polish document that i think is his birth certificate. but it is dated in 1933 when he was born in 1911. furthermore, in 1933 he was living in france so why is the document written in polish in 1933? |
Rebecca,
The certificate is dated September 18, 1933 because that is the date it was issued and it is in Polish because it was issued in Poland and thus was issued in the language of the place where he was born. He would have requested a birth certificate and it was sent to him in France from Poland. (Please keep in mind that a birth certificate is a transcription of information contained in a volume of a birth register.) The attached map shows the village where he was born (Tapin) and the place (Radymno) where his birth was recorded. The certificate is an extract from the birth records of the district of Radymno Vol. V, page 110, #112. Box 2 gives his date and location of birth (December 15, 1911 in the village of Tapin). Box 3 gives the date and place of circumcision (December 22, 1911 in Tapin). Box 4 gives his name (Leib) and his gender (male). Box 5 is missing (i.e. torn or cut off of the certificate). Box 6 gives his father's name and his occupation (farmer in Tapin). Box 7 gives his mother's name and the name of her father and his occupation (farmer in Tapin). The remaining boxes list witnesses and notations. The certificate concludes with the date and place the cert. was issued (Sept. 18, 1933 in Radymno) followed by the signature of the person (rabbi ?) who acted as registrar with the registry seal affixed. I'm not familiar enough with Jewish names to attempt to list those---sorry. If you would like a complete translation, please post your request in Polish Records Translations.
Hope this helps a bit.
Wishing you success in your research,
Dave
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:48 pm
Post subject:
WOAH!! Thank you so much! So he requested it in france so it was sent to him from poland? Is that why there are french stamps on it on the top right corner and on the bottom?
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:49 pm
Post subject:
Also do you know why he would request this type of document? I know he left france in 1938....
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:54 pm
Post subject:
In addition to Dave explanation.
The birth certificate is in Polish. Nobody ever will consider foreign certificate without translation by *assermented* translator, and without stamps of competent tribunal. Much less in France, because foreigner will be recorded in the national civil registry. Everything is checked.
The French stamp on your Polish record has "TRADUCTION" and "TRIBUNAL" on visible part, and in the center the name and address of translator in Paris. Clearly your relative needed to translate his birth certificate for French authorities, probably to obtain an official French document, such as ID card for example, or for marriage.
Nothing new. Even when two French persons marry in France today, they must present their birth certificates. If a French national marry an American, the US birth certificate must be translated by *assermented* French translator, with plenty of stamps.
BTW, to avoid any potential cheating, French authorities ask always for certificates issued less than 3 months ago. If older, it is no longer valid.
One of the biggest achievements of European Union is that we have now common "international" BMD certificates, which means both France or Poland alike can print copies on multilingual form (translation agreed once for all for 28 countries and all necessary languages) - the content of civil records are just names, dates, and places, put on that printed form. No translator needed anymore.
Best,
Elzbieta
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