Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:48 pm
Post subject: Deciphering a Marriage Record
Hi everyone,
I started researching about 10 years ago, hit a brick wall and now I'm picking up where I left off. I have a marriage record from St. John Cantius Church in Chicago from 1913. These are my paternal grandparents and I'm having trouble with the birthplace of my grandfather. It looks like Zabudowice but i don't think I'm reading it correctly. Can anyone take a look at the document and let me know what they think, not only the place of my grandfather's birth but any insights to any of the text would be greatly appreciated. Also the last name of Zengielewicz has been spelled many ways but most common I've seen is Zengelewicz.
Thank you so much for your time.
Michelle
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:23 pm
Post subject:
Michelle,
I also read it as Zabudowice, but was not able to find the place anywhere. The record mentions Kr. Pol. wich stands for Królestwa Polskiego, that is, Kingdom of Poland, so at least you have something to narrow your search. It also mentions Dyec. which refers to Diocese Grodzisk. Once again, the information doesn' help much, because there are many places named Grodzisk and Grodzisko, even in what was the partioned area know as Kingdom of Poland.
Gilberto
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neilfan2PolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Replies: 50
Location: IllinoisBack to top |
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:24 am
Post subject: Marriage record
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Michelle
I also looked and could not find Zabudowice in any of my gazetteers. If you look on the Polish Genealogy of America website [pgsa.org] you will find the marriage listed. You will also find the family history film number that the record is on. That record will probably give you the parents of the couple and perhaps the town will be more recognized. hope this helps.
carole |
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:35 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Carole, I have the original marriage certificate from the LDS film libraries and that it where I came up with Zabudowice. When I did the google search , I did find some references but I don't read Polish, I have tried a translation program but that is marginally helpful. I guess I am closer than I was yesterday.  My grandfather is a great mystery. We have record of him in the US but he ending up leaving Pennsylvania and his wife and 8 small children back around 1930. I found him back in Chicago on the 1930 census in a boarding house at the age of 39 and nothing after that. My dad and aunt always said he died at the age of 39 of lockjaw so the fact that the trail ends there holds true to the story.
I've found another interesting road to go down. Other than my relatives here in the states, we have never seen our current surname (Zingelewicz) anywhere and believe me I've searched. We have seen his surname spelled Zengelewicz a number of times and once with his signature, when I googled the name, there is a .pdf of Jewish names in the city of Kutno Poland. Also, there is a lottery list of names and again there is Zengelewicz. There was a Jewish ghetto there during the war but unfortunately a majority of the the population was sent to the Chelmno Concentration Camp. Wondering if this is where he came from, or if these are relatives of his. My aunt always said we were "part Jewish" even though he was married in a Catholic church and their kids were/are all Catholic.
He is my most interesting grandparent by far.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:13 am
Post subject:
Michelle,
I was given these links when I asked about my grandfather's naturalization records:
The Cook County Archives holds Declarations of Intent and Petitions
for Naturalization:
http://www.cookcountyclerkofcourt.org/?section=RecArchivePage&RecArchivePage=6000
They have an online database for Declarations of Intent:
http://www.cookcountyclerkofcourt.org/NR/default.aspx
Cook County Vital records index on line:
http://www.cookcountygenealogy.com/Default.aspx
There is a Wincenty Zengelewicz in the database for Declarations of Intent (I'm pretty sure that is how the surname is spelled in this index). I forgot to check his marriage record that you attached to see if your grandfather had a birthdate on it. This record had Wincenty's birthdate as 9/27/1885, he arrived in the US 11/28/1907. He was born in Poland-Russia in ZAWODOWIC. I didn't find a town like that either. This is an index, so that was how the indexer read the town name. If you think this is your grandfather, I'm sure you'll want his papers. I have been told it's cheaper to get them from the county than from the National Archives. You would want his Declaration of Intent too. If I remember correctly, that is supposed to have the most genealogical information in it.
I also should mention that the village names that I am familiar with, such as Zaluczne, were not deciphered correctly (I know it can be difficult), and therefore not indexed correctly in this database, so you would be better off seeing the handwritten writing before looking for a town. I agree that the town on the marriage record looks like Zabudowice. I did find a town in Poland that was spelled Zbludowice, and I know that the marriage record didn't look like that, but it still made me wonder a little...
I tried looking in the Cook County Vital records to see if their was a death record for Wincenty. I just tried a couple different spellings of the surname. I'm not sure that index is complete. The database for naturalization records is not near complete.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:48 am
Post subject:
Now I see that his marriage record has his birth year as 1889? Well, I also see on his draft registration card that his birthday was September 27, 1884 (that is too common to have a variety of years in records!) and his wife's name was Alexandra, and he was born in Poland-Russia. So now I do believe that is your grandfather in the Declarations of Intent index!
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:08 am
Post subject:
| Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | Michelle,
There is a Wincenty Zengelewicz in the database for Declarations of Intent ... He was born in Poland-Russia in ZAWODOWIC. I didn't find a town like that either.
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Michelle,
Thanks for Cheri information I was able to find the place. See map attached. Notice Grodzisko just 2 miles North.
Also, I have searched some polish sources and have not found the surname spelled as Zengielewicz or Zengelewicz. I believe it was
Zygielewicz (with and without a dot over Z) or Zyngielewicz.
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:47 am
Post subject:
Thank you so much Cheri and Gilberto for your generosity and knowledge to help me futher this along. I was stuck on that Marriage Certificate since it was written in Polish at a Polish Catholic church, I thought it would be more correct than other documents. I have learned that I must keep an open mind and not rule out anything. Thank you for showing me that and for finding more information about him. Again, what you do to help others on this site is incredible and I hope someday with more experience and knowledge that I can help someone too.
Michelle
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:45 pm
Post subject:
Michelle,
Another finding:
That Wincenty Zengelewicz Cherie found in the database for Declarations of Intent declared he arrived on November 28, 1907, through Antwerp.
I have just checked the passengers lists in EI database and found out he was listed as Vincenti Dzingelewitz. Mother's name is Anna (match).
Last place of residence looks like Abudowna and place of birth - on the next page of the manifest - is too much lightenend, but also looks as Abudowna.
Since Dzingelewitz is misspelled (Dzingelewski, according to http://www.herby.com.pl/indexslo.html) I believe Abudowna is misspelled, too. Names are too much similar not to be the same person.
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:14 am
Post subject:
This is amazing Gilberto. My family and I are amazed. The funny thing is, I have Dzingelewicz written down in my notes from 10 years ago and here he is on the Marion from Antwerp. I agree with you, too many coincidences for it not to be him. For once, the travel dates on his Declaration match the ship's registry. I have ordered his naturalization papers from the Chicago Court, I'm curious to see if there is anything about his wife, although I have found her travel docs and those for her brother and sister, everything lines up there too. I'm anxious to go to the next step of trying to find informtion in Poland for my family.
I'm still working on my maternal grandparents (Kloszewski and Arczewski?), I have their marriage certificate from 1910 and I'm told my grandfather came from Lwow but they are proving to be a bit more difficult prior to that. Learning from you, Cherie and the others, I'm sure I can find them just as we've located my paternal side.
Since I never met my grandparents and did not grow up in the Polish section of town like my relatives, it is great to find out where we came from and I will be traveling to Poland in the next 3 years or so to take a look and where we started.
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:47 pm
Post subject:
Michel,
That manifest shows that Vincenti was going to meet his step brother Jozef Woslowicz. Therefore, Jozef was already in the USA by then. However, when I searched EI database again, I found out a Josef Woleszcwiz who arrived not in 1907, but in 1908. At first, I though it was another Jozef, mainly because he declared he hadn't been in the USA before. However, when I looked at his birth place/last resindence there it was: Sabudowna/Sobudowna.
Abudowna, Sabudowna, Zabudowice, etc, they all seem to me as misspellings of the correct name. Josef also declared he was going to meet a brother, but I can't read the name, though it seems to start with 'W". Did you consider ordering the LDS films for Zadowice? It will definitely answer lots of questions.
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:40 am
Post subject:
Hi Gilberto,
I am going to order the LDS films for Zadowice and see what turns up. I live in Phoenix Arizona and have access to a number of Family History Libraries. I am going to order those today because I can't wait to see what I find out or at least can rule something out.
Good news on the maternal side. I found the ship's manifest for my maternal grandfather. I was searching under his full surname which he used most often, never thinking he would have used the shortened version on his arrival. But there he was Jan Kloss (instead of Kloszewski), meeting his brother Antoni Kloss and going to Erie, PA. It is him and I am happy to finally be making progress on this side of the family also.
I need to get a copy of the ship's manifest the one online is too difficult to read the place of birth. My mother says he was from Lwow but I'm not sure.
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