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aantolak

Joined: 17 May 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: Antolak family in Odrowaz

Hi Shellie,

I do not know very much at all about my Polish side only from what I found on the Ellis Island ship records so I don't know which Odrowaz they would be from : ( Here's all I know and I'm dearly hoping either you or someone here might know where to look next!! I can't read the person or address my grandmother listed on the ship record as to where/who she was going to live with in Chicago, not that the information would possibly help me find her Polish roots. My grandfather, at the time was 18, joined his mother in Chicago a couple of years after she arrived.

My great-grandmother;
First Name: Anna
Last Name: Antolak
Ethnicity: Austria, Ruthenian (on the original ship record Galacia or something similar is written over Austria and Ruth is written over Polish)
Last Place of Residence: Odrowaz
Date of Arrival: Nov 16, 1904
Age at Arrival: 46y Gender: F Marital Status: W
Ship of Travel: Frankfurt
Port of Departure: Bremen

And her son my grandfather:
First Name: Klemens
Last Name: Antolak
Ethnicity: Austria, Polish
Last Place of Residence: Odrowar
Date of Arrival: Mar 10, 1906
Age at Arrival: 18y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Patricia
Port of Departure: Hamburg

Thank you so much Shellie, you are a gem!
Anita

Shellie wrote:

aantolak wrote:

Hi Shellie,

I've read most of your posts and thought I could ask you for some help. The information I have is from Ellis Island ship records, my grandfather coming over from Odrowaz at 18..but the country is listed as Austria and race set to Polish. I found his mother's ship records too (Anna) and she also lists Odrowaz, country Austria but for race the record originally listed Polish but then that was crossed out and Ruth was added on top. Any thoughts on that? Do you think Odrowaz "Austria" is the same as Odrowaz Poland?

Also wanted to ask if you knew of anyone in Odrowaz who would be willing (for hire of course) to visit the Catholic Church there to search records of my family? I doubt there will ever be a way I can travel there myself. Any other thoughts or ideas would be awesome.

I don't know why but for some reason I feel such a connection to my father's side and want to know more.

Thank you so much,
Anita Antolak Shotkoski

Hi Anita,
There are many other people here who can describe the Austria issue better than me, but here is my best try: Poland as a country has been divided and re-devided among other countries over the years. There have been 3 major times that the country that we call Poland was divided by conquering nations. This is commonly referred to the Partitions of Poland. If you look around on the internet, you can find some cool maps that show the boundries from these partitions compared with the outline of today's Poland.

The 3rd time Poland was divided, it was divided among Prussia, Russia and Austria/Hungry. Austria Hungry often refers to the Austro-Hungarian empire. Many times it is just referred to simply as "Austria." Galicia was the named given to a big a section of land given to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. And Galicia is where many of our Polish villages were located. Because Poland did not become a "real" country again until 1918, your ancestor may have been listed as "Austrian" or "Austro-Hungarian" on his ship manifest.

It becomes really confusing for people who are just getting started with their research. Many people are puzzled when they find documents that state their Polish grandparents were from "Austria." It took me a while to figure it out too.

This site is a good place to start understanding:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~atpc/heritage/history/historic-geography.html

I will be glad to try and help you find some info about your grandparents. Do you have any thoughts about which village named Odrowaz your family was from? There are about 3 villages named Odrowaz that I found when I was searching for my family. If you would like to post what you know about your family, maybe someone will recognize the name and can provide you with some clues. If you don't want to share your family info, send a personal message and I'll email you with what I know.

I look forward to hearing from you!
Shellie

Shellie
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Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:50 am Post subject:

Hi Anita!
I had some information from my family records obtained during a Forefather's Traces Tour with Zenon in 2009. If I have the correct Klemens Antolak, he was born 19 Nov 1887, son of Stanislaw Antolek and Anna Brękus. Maternal grandparents: Jan Brękus and Marianna Wicher. Paternal grandparents: Jan Antolak and Regina Sproch. There was another record in the same house (163) for Michal Antolak, same parents and grandparents, but paternal grandmother's surname looks like Mastalarz (I'm not at all confident that this is spelled correctly).

I had a similar finding with my grandfather - his grandmother was shown with one surname and then another surname in my great-uncle's record. I later found out that one of the surnames was actually the surname of the grandmother's MOTHER. I've seen it happen several times since then - enough times to post a query about it, but I still don't have a good answer.

Does any of the information in this sketch sound familiar to you?

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aantolak

Joined: 17 May 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject:

SHELLIE!! You are such a doll to spend time researching the records you have for me!!! I'm pretty sure this is the same Klemens although I've found U.S records stating a birthdate of Nov. 23rd 1889 (WW2 Draft card) (not sure if he was trying to make himself a year or so older); the Draft card in dated April 1942 and he was claiming he was 52, which I'm not sure if that would make him too old for service. Other records I've found all 'date' him as being born 1888-1889...but the actual day date confuses me. His headstone says 1888. There couldn't possibly be another family with the same names and dates so close as Klemens with mother Anna..right? Should I be concerned that this is possibly not the same Klemens? From the Ellis Island records I find Anna as his mother, and at that time (1904) she was widowed.
How spectacular it is to find additional records! Oh, I should note too, on Klemens WW2 Draft card he lists Nowytarg Poland as his birthplace, is this anywhere near Odrowaz? You had mentioned before that there are 3 different Odrowaz town locations..does this new info put us in the same Odrowaz area? Klemens wife, Antoinette (Swiatek) from what I think to be the correct Ellis record lists that she too was from Odrowaz...would you have any records of the Swiatek family? Pretty sure she came over as Antonina Swiatek and somehow her name eventually ended up at Antoinette here in the US. I also found she possibly had a brother either Martin or Marcin Swiatek.
I am so excited to find your records...you say they are part of your family records so does that make us related somewhere along the line and/or are these records from the beautiful Church you've posted pictures of here in the past? Is there a 'place' to access these old records where I can continue to research?
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Anita

Shellie
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject:

Hi Anita,
I'm happy to help you. I don't worry too much about years because for many of my family the years were different on various records. I think that many others have experienced this too when searching for clues about their ancestors. I think that searching for some evidence from your family about Klemens' father's name would be a logical next step. Have you found anything that might help you determine whether his father's name was Stanislaw? Klemens death record? Social security application? Marriage license application if he married Antoinette?

Do you have a good image you can share of the ship manifests for Klemens or his family members? It is interesting to see that Anna came over in 1904. A widow - who was she headed to see? And why did Klemens stay behind until 1906? Maybe some members here can voice their opinions on the information shown on those records. Perhaps if you search for an arrival for Michal, you might find some additional clues.

You said: There couldn't possibly be another family with the same names and dates so close as Klemens with mother Anna..right?
Well........ yes it is possible. Klemens is not the most common first name, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this happening. Anna of course is a very common name. Again, if you can find a document in the US showing Klemens' father's name, you'll be much closer to claiming this as your grandfather's birth. A bit difficult if his mother arrived in the US a widow.

If you found a record showing your grandfather was from Nowy Targ, then you have a good chance that your grandfather's village was the Odrowaz that I visited in 2009 with Zenon on my Forefather's Traces Tour. It's sort of like him saying that he was from Nowy Targ county rather than referring to his village (a much smaller place and probably less well-known). I am happy to share my information with you. I don't have a complete set of records but from what I do have, there are few Antolak or Świętek names. Odrowaz was the parish church for a few nearby villages, including Zaluczne and Dzial, so don't rule out the possibility that your family is from one of these villages.

aantolak

Joined: 17 May 2010
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject:

Shellie! Thank you so much for your responses! You've really helped me a great deal! I looked for Michal Antolak and found him at Ellis Island in 1909!! The ship records I can't attach (seems they lock it down to prevent someone from copying) but it did say he was joining his mother Anna in Chicago..just like Klemens did in 1906. Michal was only 17 in 1909 according to the record. Also, Michal lists he was from Maniowy, Aust., I'm hoping that is another town near Odrowaz.

I haven't found anything more about Michal, it's like he disappeared because from what I remember I never saw him in a Census report for Anna while she was in Chicago..and then not on the one I found for Klemens after Anna moved to Wisconsin to be with Klemens family when she got older either. I'll need to double check those again.

I, too, was wondering why/how Anna could leave these boys and come to America without them, I'm assuming it was a financial issue but geez loueez I don't think I could have left my children behind for any reason, it makes this more interesting. I wish I could read the ship record for Anna where is states who she is destined to join in Chicago but I can't make it out on the record, maybe it's not so important; the only part I think I can read is Marcella (?) can't read the last name. If you are ever on Ellislsland.org maybe you can make it out, it's not like it's faded, it's just the person's handwriting is horrible!

I have a copy of the Marriage License for Klemens and Antoinette but it does not list the parents names. Perhaps there is an actual Church record, the Church was St. Aldabert in Chicago and the Priest who signed the License first name was Stanislaw! lol Maybe I can call them to find out if they keep the old records. Also, I looked at the Wisconsin vital records site and from what I read I didn't 'qualify' to request a death certificate for Klemens et al. : (

I can't believe my luck in finding someone who actually has some kind of record for my relatives...you've actually been there too!!! Oh my! Perhaps one day I'll be able to find more info on Stanislaw and the rest of the folks you listed in the family tree above. I appreciate any of the records you have time to share. I'm glad Klemens listing Nowy Targ on the WW2 record helps link to Odrowaz. Sure wish I could go there and visit every Church in the area to search more for all the branches of the family, I love this stuff!

Here is the basics for Michal's immigration, of course the actual manifest lists more info including destination to his mother Anna Antolak:

First Name: Michal
Last Name: Antolak
Ethnicity: Austria, Polish
Last Place of Residence: Maniowy, Aust.
Date of Arrival: Mar 03, 1909
Age at Arrival: 17y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Gneisenau
Port of Departure: Bremen
Manifest Line Number: 0016

Thank you thank you thank you Shellie! Thank you for helping me!
Anita

PolishLibrarian
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:22 am Post subject:

Hi Anita~ I took a look at the Ellis Island records. You're right - deciphering who Anna was going to is very difficult. I might guess it says aunt, but because of the over-writing it is hard to tell. What I thought was interesting was that according to Michal's record it appears he was traveling with Jozef Klapacz (who was going to Passaic, NJ). It appears that Jozef's nearest relative in the country he was leaving was his wife Maria Kopacz in Maniowy and below him is Michal who's nearest relative is his cousin Maria Kopacz. Maniowy is a village just a little east of Nowy Targ on the north side of Jezioro (lake) Czorsztynskie (a man-made lake on the Dunajec River). So it seems that Anna left her son Michal with a relative when she came to the US 5 years earlier. Also note that the 2 people above Jozef were from Odroważ and were also going to Chicago. Odroważ is maybe 11km west of Nowy Targ (as the crow flies) and Maniowy is about 16 km east of Nowy Targ, so all in the same general area.

And in the "small world" category my grandmother's older sister and her husband married in Mpls. and in about 1916 moved to Weyerhauser in Rusk County WI where Klemens was living in 1942. They may have actually known one another - there was a large community of Galician Poles living in that area.

Good news - I have found the marriage record at St. Adalberts. Klemens father is Stanislaus Antolak and his mother is Anna Brenkus (I would expect this should be Brękus). Antonina's father is Joannes (Jan) and her mother is Maria Stoch (or Stach). Both Klemens and Antonina are from Odroważ.

I tried to attach the image by using the Add an Attachment box but it didn't complete loading. The file size is 1.47 MB so it's within the limits. What's the best way to do this? Or I can try to send it to you separately.

Shellie
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Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:24 am Post subject:

PolishLibrarian wrote:

I tried to attach the image by using the Add an Attachment box but it didn't complete loading. The file size is 1.47 MB so it's within the limits. What's the best way to do this? Or I can try to send it to you separately.

If you send the message to me at my personal email address, I'll reduce it and post it.
Shellie

OK - Here it is! See the last entry shown on the image.

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Last edited by Shellie on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:39 am; edited 2 times in total

Shellie
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:27 am Post subject:

Such great news Anita! Our friend the PolishLibrarian confirms that Klemens father was Stantislaw so we have the right guy!!!

Also, this is interesting. Anna’s Ellis Island record is hard to read. I took some screen shots and cut and pasted some important parts of the ship manifest into one image for us to examine. I hope that when you click on it, you can see the information clearly.

If I am reading this correctly Anna was headed to Chicago to a cousin? Marcela? Czepiel at 149 17th Street. Czepiel is a surname that is important to several members here!

Look at the passenger below Anna: Jozefa Bielanska, also from Odrowaz. Headed to see an acquaintance? Jozef Mrozek at W. 17th St, 781? In Chicago.

There is also an added notation that says “uncle Jacob Gall” but it is not clear which of these 2 passengers the note refers to. There are also several members here who are interested in the Gal / Gall surname.

Now, even more interesting. Since Anna was the first passenger on this page, I flipped backward to the previous page and found at the end of that page 2 more passengers from Odrowaz.
Wiktoria Dzielawa? The surname is hard to read, but this is my best guess based on the surnames I already know from Odrowaz. Wiktoria was headed to see…… Marcelina? Czepiel at 149 17th Street, same as Anna.

Also traveling with them was Marcela Mroczek, headed to her father Jozef Mrozek – same as the passenger beneath Anna’s entry!

So, more helpful clues for you Anita!!!

PS: I included passenger #3, Jan Leja from Stare Bystre because I remember reading in another post that someone was interested in the surname Leja from village Stare Bystre…..

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jkoloj

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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: Antolak family in Odrowacz--Polish obituaries found

Anita,
Don't know if you have pursued this angle already, but there are several obituary names that I found in the PGSA database (from the old Polish daily newspaper in Chicago) that might be of interest. I have found many links to family members after I obtained the obituaries because they typically list surviving relatives by name and their family relationship. For example, the Polish terms for Aunt and Uncle are different, depending on which side of the family they are from..."stryj" = uncle on father's side or "wuj" = uncle on mother's side. That can help research down the road.

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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject:

Hi Anita,
Yes, jkoloj is right, you might be surprised what you could find from obits. It is really helpful to dig for information about other relations, because you could end up finding more about your direct line. You wrote:
"I can't read the person or address my grandmother listed on the ship record as to where/who she was going to live with in Chicago, not that the information would possibly help me find her Polish roots."
You might be surprised what you could learn from doing further research on that person. It IS very hard to read the relationship to the person she is going to in Chicago. It doesn't look like daughter, but that is one relationship that I considered - that she could have been going to a married daughter.

You wrote: "I, too, was wondering why/how Anna could leave these boys and come to America without them, I'm assuming it was a financial issue but geez loueez I don't think I could have left my children behind for any reason, it makes this more interesting." I think you are right to assume that it was for financial reasons. Most of our families could not afford to emigrate together. One had to go and earn enough to send for the next family member.

You wrote: "Also, I looked at the Wisconsin vital records site and from what I read I didn't 'qualify' to request a death certificate for Klemens et al. : (" I didn't look at the Wisconsin vital records site, and you now have Klemens father's name, so that isn't an issue. I would just like to say that as a granddaughter, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't let you pay for a record. Sometimes it's the difference between a certified and an uncertified copy. You would only need an uncertified copy for genealogical purposes. I know that in one state that I have sent for records, a great aunt had to "become" my great grandmother in order for me to be allowed to pay for a copy (and in order for me to satisfy my curiousity)...

You might want to check out Ellis Island Gold and look for other members of your family (now that you know a number of surnames) that emigrated from Poland. At this site, you can search for as many letters as you want for a surname, a first name, or a town name. That way you can run across names that were either spelled wrong, or indexed incorrectly. You might want to look at Google maps to see where Odrowaz and Nowy Targ are, and become familiar with the surrounding towns in the area, because you may have relatives from those towns.

You might also try to connect with people that share your surnames. Check out the surname list on this site, or other Polish genealogical sites. If you haven't questioned all the cousins that you know, to see what they know, you should do that. My mom didn't know much about either of her parents' birth places, but her first cousin knew where her dad was born. I wonder if any of Michal's descendants are also searching for their roots. Best of luck!

babblingbrook

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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject:

Hello Anita,
my name is Bonnie Czepiel I had first used a fake name as I did not know re the site yrs ago and cannot seem to change it. Anyway, I have a relative that went to the same Marcela yet I could not even make out the Marcela for sure and I could not make out the relationship. If anyone can figure out the relationship I would appreciate the advice. Am thinking that this might mean we have a relation, rarely do people likely travel to someone they barely know. And now that the spelling is down due to your manifest we need to do research on this person!!!
First entry on the manifest. I have a ton of tangents going at the moment, have you found anything re this person, try if you would and i will try as fast as i am able to as well.
If you can send the whole page I can likely look at it better, the relation part. As a whole page might clarify it. I can only zoom in so much and do not have the whole page to make a comparison with. Will PM my email address.

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Richard Lubinski

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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: Antolak

I have Stanley Antolak b. 19 Dec. 1883, d. June 1996. Rokiciny, Poland
His wife Juzefa Maria Oczkowska b. Oct. 1895, Zebrzydowice, Poland
Son, Adam Jan Antolak b. 15 Dec. 1933, Rokiciny, Poland.
He married: Janina Anna Majchrowicz b. 10 May 1939, Rokiciny, Poland.

babblingbrook

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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject:

Hmm looking at it again the best I can it seems they both might say acqn. acquaintance on yours Anita. Though this could have been something to write with a language barrier vs trying to figure out a relationship in another language. As I said I doubt people would travel to unknowns. Can not figure out from mine going to the same person what the relationship is. Does not quite look like the relationship below that is cousin but maybe? the writing is bad. Any feedback welcome!

aantolak

Joined: 17 May 2010
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject:

Thank you all so much for your help! I truly am overjoyed at how many people have jumped in and helped me the past few days!

I am so fortunate Shellie and PolishLibrarian found the records they did and we were able to confirm we had the correct family and gave me knowledge about great and great-great grandparents I never knew! Amazing!!

Thank you to jkoloj, Cheri Vanden Berg, Richard Lubinski and Bonnie for your help and comments! I"m looking forward to finding more clues and as Bonnie thought perhaps long lost relatives!
Anita

aantolak

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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject:

babblingbrook wrote:

HI Bonnie, thank you for writing! I do not have a copy of Anna's record, I think Shellie was able to do a screen shot and captured the portions she posted. Shellie thought perhaps Anna was going to see cousin Marcela, I can't make it out at all. As for your record I'm thinking it says cousin as well, so we must be cousins of some sort!! Marcela certainly was a popular destination, wish we had more information about her...I didn't find a record for her at Ellis Island. It would be awesome someday to travel to Chicago and spend time at their library tracking down as much as we could about all of these folks!

I wonder if any of them ever thought anyone in the future would be so curious about them and their lives!! I'm amazed at the strength of all of these people. I could not imagine getting a group of any of my relatives together to forever leave my country, knowing I would never see my father, mother, or other various family again. At the same time, in my case, my g-grandmother Anna, leaving behind her two boys..not knowing if she would ever see them again..even if it was 'the plan' that they would join her someday I would think there's surely the uncertainty that 'something' could happen, whether financial or not, where you would not be able to be reunited again.
Perhaps leaving for a better life and country was 'the thing to do' back then..but to me it would be an extremely hard and brave thing to do. So thankful I am in the US and I wish I could somehow thank my ancestors!
Anita

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