Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - question about births after the death of the father

Author

Message

mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron

Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 989

Back to top

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: question about births after the death of the father

Hello,

I recently had a birth record translated by Ryszard as follows:

No. 399
Mlawa

It came to pass in the city of Mlawa on 16/28 December, 1885, at 1:00 PM. Appeared Emma Srednicka, age 50, midwife residing in Mlawa, in the presence of Walenty Sztembork [?], age 30, and Jozef Bugajski, 36 [or 37?] years of age, both laborers residing in Mlawa, and presented us with a female infant, declaring that she was born in Mlawa on October 4/16 of this year at 6:00 PM of Ewa Krygier, widow, age 32, residing in Mlawa, and an unknown father. At holy baptism today by Fr. Konstantin Br _ _[?], vicar of Mlawa, the child was given the name of MAGDALENA. Godparents were Tomasz Dobrowolski and Ludowika Pry_ _ska. This act read aloud to the illiterate and signed only by me. Rector of Mlawa parish, registrar of civil acts. Official signature of Fr. Marcin Swidzinski [?]

I'm guessing that if a child is born after the father is deceased, it would still list the name of the father followed by the word, "deceased". If I am understanding this record correctly, Ewa was widowed at the time of the birth, but the father of Magdalena was not Ewa's deceased husband. The father is "unknown". Is that a correct interpretation? What was the convention for recording the birth of a child after the father was deceased? Would they list the name of the deceased father or not? Is Magdalena born of Ewa and her deceased husband or by another, unknown man according to this translated record?

Thanks for your help in understanding this,
Cynthia

EANWhitson
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Replies: 370

Back to top

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject:

You know, I've had this happen to me. The best way to know is to find the death record of who you think the father should be. In other words, I found older siblings and in all those records, I found the name of the father. When I found my direct ancestor's record, like you, I didn't see a father listed. Look for deaths between the last sibling that lists a father and the record of your ancestor. What I found is that my ancestor's (sibling's) father died 33 months before my ancestor was born. I have no idea who his father is, so my line ends there, but I could follow his mother's line a bit farther. The interesting thing is that the birth record shows his last name as his mother's, but his marriage record and death record takes the surname of the father that died 33 months before he was born.

mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron

Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 989

Back to top

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject:

I see what you are saying, EANWhitson, but that approach will not work for me. I don't know the name of the father. I am doing some "reverse engineering" with two infant death and birth records to uncover clues to finding the home village of the Krygier / Kryger family.

Thanks for sharing what you learned. I'm glad it worked for you.
Best,
Cynthia

EANWhitson
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Replies: 370

Back to top

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject:

I guess I don't understand. You don't know the name of the father. I didn't either. That's the end of the ancestral line.

If you are trying to find Ewa's maiden name, you may want to search for a marriage in the area of a Ewa to a Krygier. If you find that, then you might be able to find other children and the years born.

The other thing is to find a Krygier death. He obviously died before Ewa and it will list Ewa as his widow.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Krygier may not be Ewa's name. It may be her married name. If it is her married name, the Krygier's may not be ancestors. Either way, a marriage record is of importance to you. I've seen these things go either way. The other thing is to try to find Ewa's death record. It may also mention her late husband and/or her parents.

mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron

Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 989

Back to top

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:10 am Post subject:

Hi EANWhitson,

Here is what I know: the mother of the deceased infant, Ewa Krygier, was married to unknown Krygier. Her maiden name is Pryjomska. She was a widow at the time her baby Magdalena was born in Mlawa. Her baby then died several months later in Uniszki Zawadskie. The age of the mother Ewa is not shown in either the birth or death record. The father is not named in either record. There are no other records for birth, marriage, or death naming Ewa Pryjomska and a male Krygier in Uniszki or Mlawa.

My G-grandmother is Paulina Krygier who married my G-grandfather Jan Lelinski. I have been trying to find Paulina's village of birth so I can hopefully trace that branch of my family. Paulina and Jan's marriage record name a Prussian village that the translators at PO have only been able to partially translate. The best guess is Fraciszkowo. I checked the parishes of Zuromin and Chamsk that are suppose to cover Franciszkowo records. I found no Krygiers at all. At this point, I am trying to locate clues from other Krygier records in Uniszki Zawadskie to trace their origins. I found Paulina's brother Gottlieb marriage, death, and children's birth records,but none of them indicate his village of birth. That leaves my last record for Krygier - Ewa Krygiers little girl, Magdalena, birth and death to try to trace the movements of this family.

I don't even know for sure if Ewa was married to one of Paulina's brothers. That is what I am trying to find out, but I don't have a location. Ewa was in Uniszki when her daughter died, Mlawa when her daughter was born, before that is not known.

That's where I am so far. After Magdalena's birth record was translated, I noticed the record said "father unknown" instead of "father deceased" so I am trying to understand the conventions of record keeping in such circumstances at that time.

Best,
Cynthia

EANWhitson
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Replies: 370

Back to top

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:10 am Post subject:

Ahhhhh, gotcha. You are already doing all the things I would do.

I am assuming you've checked the Geneteka index (I know they don't have many records in the Prussian partition). What about the Poznan project? It indexes some marriages. You might get lucky.

I also have family like that - they moved around and I've only been able to find them because of Geneteka's index. They moved more often and farther than I ever expected. My other lines that are farther west in Poland (also Prussian partition), well, I'm right with you in not being able to find them.

I realize that some of the links I'm showing might not help you at all, but they are oddball things I've found along the way and who knows? Maybe you'll get lucky. Since they are indexes, it's pretty easy to look through. Always a chance.

I have no idea if this would help you or not, but a researcher in Poland gave this link to me. It did help me find at least two people when I had no other place to look. http://www.szpejankowski.eu/index.php/metryki-wykazy-osob/102.html

I found a marriage totally by chance on this list. It has something to do with nobility (and I had no clue any of my family was). http://www.katalogszlachty.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=36:indeksy&Itemid=55&layout=default

And here is Mlawa records online. (You may already have seen this.) Click on it and it shows different town records that may not be indexed yet. I know it's a royal pain, but when you have time, you may want to search out indexes if they have them in the years you are thinking. Again, a lot of work, but at least it's online. http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/

Much luck to you!

PolishOrigins Forum