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a4u2fear



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
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Location: NY/USA

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:09 am      Post subject: Documents in Multiple Online Locations
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I recently found a relatives death notice in two places.

Once on genealogiawarchiwach and on a microfilm on familysearch

The microfilm, I'm not sure the best way to describe it, is a page from a church book that has say 25 names on a page and lists the persons name and a few other minor notes of information. Seems to be a bare bones death register as the individual is just a one-liner on the church book page

the notice from genealogiawarchiwach, is a single page and is dedicated solely to that person and is much more detailed.

I have found most of my relatives information on microfilms, but it appears I may be missing out as some of these items may be recorded more than once (like in genealogiawarchiwach) in another location.

Can someone please explain why they are recorded twice? Is there a way to know if and when something may be found on genealogiawarchiwach? It appears the search engine only works on exact spelling of names. i.e. if the Register has Dorothea Badowska and I search for Dorothea Badoska it won't show up - very frustrating.
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marcelproust
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:53 pm      Post subject: Re: Documents in Multiple Online Locations
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a4u2fear wrote:
I recently found a relatives death notice in two places.

Once on genealogiawarchiwach and on a microfilm on familysearch

The microfilm, I'm not sure the best way to describe it, is a page from a church book that has say 25 names on a page and lists the persons name and a few other minor notes of information. Seems to be a bare bones death register as the individual is just a one-liner on the church book page

the notice from genealogiawarchiwach, is a single page and is dedicated solely to that person and is much more detailed.

I have found most of my relatives information on microfilms, but it appears I may be missing out as some of these items may be recorded more than once (like in genealogiawarchiwach) in another location.

Can someone please explain why they are recorded twice? Is there a way to know if and when something may be found on genealogiawarchiwach? It appears the search engine only works on exact spelling of names. i.e. if the Register has Dorothea Badowska and I search for Dorothea Badoska it won't show up - very frustrating.


Please show me these two documents you write about.

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If you would like to show your appreciation for the arduous and time-consuming translations, you can do it at my PAYPAL account using this email: [email protected]
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:18 pm      Post subject:
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:22 pm      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
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I think the first document is a Civil Registry Office document and the second is an entry in the parish book

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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:53 pm      Post subject:
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The civil register is great for more detail...how can I assume these exist and/or are used for a region? Is there anyway to know?

Thanks for the discussion
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:51 pm      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
The civil register is great for more detail...how can I assume these exist and/or are used for a region? Is there anyway to know?

Thanks for the discussion


Hi,

In order to best understand the two records it is very helpful to put them into historical context. It is true that the document in German is a civil registration record and the Latin document is an ecclesiastical record. After the Congress of Vienna in 1815 redrew the borders of European countries the regions of current woj. Kujawsko-Pomorskie and Wielkopolskie which fell under Prussian rule used Catholic and Lutheran parish records as civil vital stats records. These records were parish based and the format was dictated by the civil government. The ecclesiastical death record you posted was the same form used when parish priests acted as civil registrars. In 1874 reunified Germany adopted a system of civil registration, no longer parish based, but composed in freestanding registry offices by registrars who were not members of the clergy. The language switched from the Latin used by Catholic parish priests to German and the format changed from the columnar form to a “fill in the blanks paragraph” style. RC priests generally continued to use for ecclesiastical records the same columnar form they had used when they acted as civil registrars. Such German records ceased to kept when Poland regained independence after WWI. Rather than looking at the civil record as containing more information than the ecclesiastical record it would be more accurate to say that each record contained some common data but each contained information not found in the other. The Latin record not only gives the date of death, but also the date of burial. It states that her husband was a fisherman and gives her cause of death—“old age”—rather generic but the record is not a physician’s death certificate and 78 qualified as “old age”. The civil (German) record names the informant (Adam Badowski) and states that Dorota (the Polish version of the Latin and the German versions of her given name) was born in Gniezno to Ignacy & Antonina Raczynski. When the informant was literate the record contained his/her signature. That was not the case in this record.

Here is the translation of the Latin record. The translation of the Latin headings could be of value to you as a template for such death records. Attached is a PDF doc which Elżbieta graciously shared some years ago. It translates the printed German text of the civil death record. It seems to me that using both records in tandem provides more available information than can be found in either record alone.

I’ve found that German civil registrations are much less commonly available online than the Latin records available on Family Search. As far as I know, civil registrations, when they exist, are housed in state archives. Whether they can be found online depends on what the individual archive has done to date. The only way to tell is to search for the archive which hold the record.

Here is the translation of the Latin record:
Col. 1: Numerus = Number (in order for the year): 63
Col. 2: Annus et Mensis = Year and Month: June 8, 1902
Col. 3: In quo loco = In which place (place of death): Padniewko
Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen = First and Surname: Dorota Badowska
Col. 5 Aetas = Age
Col. 5a: Annus = Year(s): 78
Col. 5b: Mensis = Month(s): blank
Col. 5c: Dies = Day(s): blank
Col. 6: Conditio = Condition/Status/Occupation (of the deceased): Wife of a fisherman
Col. 7: Conditio seu Professio Patris = Condition or Profession of the Father: Blank
Col. 8: Cognomen = Surname
Col. 8a: Patris = of the Father: Blank
Col. 8b: Matris = of the Mother: Blank
Col. 9: Masculi = Males
Col. 9a: Legitimi = Legitimate: Blank
Col. 9b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank
Col. 10: Feminae = Females
Col. 10a: Legitimae = Legitimate: Blank
Col. 10b: Illegitimae = Illegitimate: Blank
Col. 11: Morbus = Disease: Old age (senectus)
Col. 11a: Dies sepulturae = Date of Burial: June 11
Col. 12 Unde putet curato personam defunctam esse eandem sicut ipse relatum = How did the curate know that the deceased person was the same as was reported: Blank
Col. 13: Adnotationes = Notations: Blank

Hope this helps you.

Dave



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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:29 pm      Post subject:
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this is great information. thank you dave!
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