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a4u2fear



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 96
Location: NY/USA

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:00 pm      Post subject: Casper/Kasper/Gaspar
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I'm trying to figure out the name in the attached marriage record.

To me, it's Gaspar. Poznan project listed it as Casparus.

Gaspar is not listed as a searchable name on poznan project. Is it a real polish name? Is it common?



In the second attachment it's written again as I see it, Gasper, similar "G" as in Grzybowo. It does not appear to be a "C" like in Cath (catholic)



mary birth to gasper badoski and josepha derlinska 8026334 img5.png
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mary birth to gasper badoski and josepha derlinska 8026334 img5.png



possible kasper badoski to joseph derlinska marriage img 507 film 8023475.png
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marriage
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possible kasper badoski to joseph derlinska marriage img 507 film 8023475.png


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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 458

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:16 pm      Post subject: Re: Casper/Kasper/Gaspar
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a4u2fear wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the name in the attached marriage record.

To me, it's Gaspar. Poznan project listed it as Casparus.

Gaspar is not listed as a searchable name on poznan project. Is it a real polish name? Is it common?



In the second attachment it's written again as I see it, Gasper, similar "G" as in Grzybowo. It does not appear to be a "C" like in Cath (catholic)


Hi,

On another thread, recently, Dave Nowicki just discussed this name. I will quote him here:

"The name Kacper is the Polish version of the name of one of the magi of legend (Casper, Melchior, and Balthazar), like in the seasonal song “We three Kings of Orient are…”. Gasparus is the Latin version and the English is Caspar, with the more usual modern English spelling of Casper (like in Casper the friendly ghost). Another English version is Jasper. The name, along with Melchior & Balthazar often was given to babies born in the early weeks of January, near the traditional date of the Feast of the Epiphany—January 6." Thanks, Dave, for being so knowledgeable and so quotable!

Your reading of the letter G is absolutely right.

Best,
Sophia
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a4u2fear



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 96
Location: NY/USA

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:06 pm      Post subject:
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This is great news! Thanks Dave and Sophia. After I posted this I figured it was two different people and was going to dismiss it but this is big
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1939
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:16 pm      Post subject: Re: Casper/Kasper/Gaspar
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Sophia wrote:
a4u2fear wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the name in the attached marriage record.

To me, it's Gaspar. Poznan project listed it as Casparus.

Gaspar is not listed as a searchable name on poznan project. Is it a real polish name? Is it common?



In the second attachment it's written again as I see it, Gasper, similar "G" as in Grzybowo. It does not appear to be a "C" like in Cath (catholic)


Hi,

On another thread, recently, Dave Nowicki just discussed this name. I will quote him here:

"The name Kacper is the Polish version of the name of one of the magi of legend (Casper, Melchior, and Balthazar), like in the seasonal song “We three Kings of Orient are…”. Gasparus is the Latin version and the English is Caspar, with the more usual modern English spelling of Casper (like in Casper the friendly ghost). Another English version is Jasper. The name, along with Melchior & Balthazar often was given to babies born in the early weeks of January, near the traditional date of the Feast of the Epiphany—January 6." Thanks, Dave, for being so knowledgeable and so quotable!

Your reading of the letter G is absolutely right.

Best,
Sophia


Hi Andrew & Sophia,

To amplify the stuff about Kacper...In Latin there were three spellings of that name during the 19th Century—Gasparus, Gaspari, m.; Caspar, Caspari, m.; and Casparus, Caspari, m. There were also several spelling variations in Polish. In a sense, the spelling of Latin and Polish names is very similar to what happens with English given names. A good example would be the name Catherine. Some women spell the name Katherine, others spell it Kathryn, and still others spell it Cathryn. Even though Kacper is not one of the top ten most popular Polish male names it is listed as an option on the Poznan Project, but it is listed, as you wrote, as Capar(us)/Kacper rather than Gasparus/Kacper. Variations in the spelling of Post-Classical Latin words was extremely common. The word used to designate the top class peasant farmer, Cmetho/Cmeto, had 7 or 8 spelling variations in Latin used in Poland during the late Middle Ages. It sort of staggers the imagination that such a short word could have so many spelling variations.

On another, but related, topic...Polish frequently used diminutive forms for given names. Kacper was the formal version but his friends and relatives may have called him Kaspruś/Kacpruś or Kasparek/Kacparek. Nothing unusual. Just like Andrew can be known as Andy or Drew. Of course, we would have no idea what diminutives our Polish ancestors used except, perhaps, for some later ancestors whose diminutive name could be learned from letters sent by family members.

It seems to me that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that the Kacper Badoski who married Józefa Derlińska in 1826 was the father of Wincenty with his wife Klara. It appears that he was widowed twice (in 1816-17 and again c. 1826. At age 60 he was certainly not too old to father a child. (One of my ancestors, whom I like to call “the stud” married in 1806 and had 12 children with his first wife. He became a widower in 1843 and married for a second time two years later when he was 65 and had two more sons with his second wife after his middle 60s.) I believe that you can nail it down by locating the death records of his first two wives.

Wishing you continued successful research,

Dave
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