PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Kozlowski Research
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author
Message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:09 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
Ok, I finally figured out how to view them, I think. What would I look for next to the number of the record: Gabin? or Mikolaja?


Hi,

Here are some hints and examples of how to search the Family Search films to look for records you need.

Record of Józef Leszkiewicz (not your Józef) Just an example of what Leszkiewicz & Józef look like in Russian: https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/62/1571/0/1.1/5/skan/full/6O7d7D7YSQWndz0jjsWv1w Leszkiewicz is the word before the parenthesis at the end of line 3 and Józef is the first word in line 15. Something which is helpful is that the names often are written in Polish (our alphabet) are in parentheses following the Russian version.

An example of what birth index looks like in Gąbin records on Family Search: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXN-5DBY?i=443&cat=200458
The letter you want which corresponds to the English & Polish letter L is found in the column on the far right and follows the letter which corresponds to our letter K (and actually looks like it). The letter you want begins on the third line from the top. There is no Leszkiewicz in this particular index. The column before the names gives a running total number and the column after the names gives the Akt (Record) Number. When you find a record which you want to see you need to go back to the image on the film which contains the proper Akt (Record) Number. The indexes are only in Russian.

The film you want is number 2084394 and the items on the film are numbers 3-5. Films which have an image of a camera can be viewed online from the comfort of home. Films with a camera and a key can be viewed online only at a Family History Center or affiliate public library. (This has something to do with the contract between Family Search and the place where the records are housed. The key indicates that there is a restriction imposed by the original contract.

This whole process is not anywhere easy like typing a name into a database search and getting results with links and all that kind of good stuff. The biblical process you need to follow (seek & you shall find—a joke) is time consuming and tedious but if and when you get results personal satisfaction should follow.

Wishing you the best of luck,

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:32 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Thanks again so much! Super helpful! I spent a couple hours looking through that reel today and I couldn't find anything that was close. I will have to keep searching. It looks like there's several books for each year? Maybe I'll need to look at the locked files at a family center. Thank you for the tip on how the Russian letters look different. That was super helpful! and the examples of how "Leszkiewicz" looks written in Russian. Here I thought a Capital L would be easy to spot, but not so much in Russian. I love the trill of the hunt though! haha
View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:52 am      Post subject: KLIMAS hometown
Reply with quote

I'm looking for the hometown for my Klimas ancestors. Here is the list I've gathered from several documents

LISZECZ - typed from Death Record for Joseph Klimas
LINCHETZ - transcribed from New York arrival passenger list for Andrew Klimas
LIN. KONIN - typed from Naturalization for Joseph Klimas
LISAC, KALISZ - handwritten from WWI record for Joseph Klimas
LASZTOCZ - transcribed from Hamburg departure passenger for Andrew Klimas
LISIEC - typed on husbands naturalization form for Lousie Klimas

I found two other people that were looking for ancestors with different last names that were both from Liszecz as well. One wrote (Liszecz, Liszec or Leachets)

Let me know what you think! Smile



Klimas home town.PNG
 Description:
 Filesize:  53.33 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Klimas home town.PNG


View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 pm      Post subject: Re: KLIMAS hometown
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
I'm looking for the hometown for my Klimas ancestors. Here is the list I've gathered from several documents

LISZECZ - typed from Death Record for Joseph Klimas
LINCHETZ - transcribed from New York arrival passenger list for Andrew Klimas
LIN. KONIN - typed from Naturalization for Joseph Klimas
LISAC, KALISZ - handwritten from WWI record for Joseph Klimas
LASZTOCZ - transcribed from Hamburg departure passenger for Andrew Klimas
LISIEC - typed on husbands naturalization form for Lousie Klimas

I found two other people that were looking for ancestors with different last names that were both from Liszecz as well. One wrote (Liszecz, Liszec or Leachets)

Let me know what you think! Smile


Hi,

The place which fits best is Lisiec. None of the other spellings fit any place in Poland. There were three villages with that name all in the same area: Lisiec Wielki, Lisiec Mały, and Lisiec Nowy. The RC parish for all three is in Lisiec Wielki. (Cf. Attachment). During the 19th Century they were in powiat Koninski (of Konin) of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) aka Russian Poland. Konin is just north of Kalisz and after WWI the law court for those villages was in Kalisz. Here is a link to the parish records for Lisiec Wielki on Family Search https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=69308&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Poland%2C%20Pozna%C5%84%2C%20Lisiec%20Wielki%20(Konin)%22&subjectsOpen=491937-50

Today the villages are all in woj. wielkopolskie, pow. Koniński, gmina Stare Miasto. Of course just because someone said that they were from Lisiec they may not have been born there but only lived there before leaving Europe but with a little luck that also may be their place of birth.

Wishing you good luck with this search,

Dave

PS I don't know why the last part of the link is different from the rest of it.



Screenshot_2020-01-21 Skorowidz miejscowości Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej z oznaczeniem terytorjalnie im właściwych władz i ur[...].png
 Description:
 Filesize:  14.81 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Screenshot_2020-01-21 Skorowidz miejscowości Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej z oznaczeniem terytorjalnie im właściwych władz i ur[...].png


View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:40 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I was wondering/thinking that as well. The only other thing is I came across a book titled: "A Field of Bones": What I Knew of Linchitz, My Ancestral Home". I found out that Linchitz was the Yiddish pronunciation of Łęczyca. That wouldn't be considered a part of Kalisz, would it? I think you're correct that the Lisiec is probably more accurate. Also, 2 of my other 4 great grandparents are also from that same area (as you know). I'll look through the index and see if I can find anything! As always. Thank you!!
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:21 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
I was wondering/thinking that as well. The only other thing is I came across a book titled: "A Field of Bones": What I Knew of Linchitz, My Ancestral Home". I found out that Linchitz was the Yiddish pronunciation of Łęczyca. That wouldn't be considered a part of Kalisz, would it? I think you're correct that the Lisiec is probably more accurate. Also, 2 of my other 4 great grandparents are also from that same area (as you know). I'll look through the index and see if I can find anything! As always. Thank you!!


Hi,

No, that would not be near/in Kalisz.

The parish of Lisiec Wielki is not indexed on Geneteka so it looks like you may have to search the fun way by looking through internal indexes in the books. Attached is an example of the surname Klimas in Russian. Here is a link to where records for the parish are according to Geneteka https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=4336

Wishing you good luck,

Dave



Screenshot_2020-01-21 Search archives.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  43.31 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Screenshot_2020-01-21 Search archives.png


View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:45 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Question on the index. What does it mean when neither set of numbers is in numerical order? Which one is the record number? I'm looking up my 2nd Great grandmother Teofila Szymanski. It looks like there are two born in 1869 and I'm not sure which once she is and I'm confused on the numbering. Can you shed some light on this for me (re: the numbering?) Smile


Example of Index.PNG
 Description:
 Filesize:  152.7 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Example of Index.PNG


View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:57 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
Question on the index. What does it mean when neither set of numbers is in numerical order? Which one is the record number? I'm looking up my 2nd Great grandmother Teofila Szymanski. It looks like there are two born in 1869 and I'm not sure which once she is and I'm confused on the numbering. Can you shed some light on this for me (re: the numbering?) Smile


Hi,

Without seeing the entire page I can’t say for certain which column of numbers is which. One column probably gives a running total of all the birth akts (records) from the year and not just those records for a particular letter of the Cyrillic alphabet and the other column gives the akt (record) number. I would look up the number first in one column and then in the other column to try to figure out which is which.

Anyway, I don’t see the given name Teofila on the sample you posted. Cf the attachment for an example of what the name looks like.

Here is a site which Gilberto shared about four years ago with the blurb from Polish Roots. I’ve found given names in Cyrillic with their Polish equivalents quite helpful given my rudimentary ability with Cyrillic. The attachment is from that list.
http://www.kf.vu.lt/…/…/katalikisku_vardu_rusinimas_1901.zip
If you’re dealing with documents in Russian and wonder how Polish first names generally are spelled in the Cyrillic alphabet, Waldemar Chorążewicz posted a note to the Facebook Polish Genealogy group with this link. It downloads a zip file that contains scans of pages from a handwritten booklet listing given names used by Roman Catholics and their Russian spellings. Masculine names appear on the first eight pages, and feminine names follow. The handwritten book is signed “M. Strunojcie”—which appears to be a Polonized form of a Lithuanian surname—and is dated 28 May 1931. As best I can tell, M. Strunojcie copied by hand a booklet issued by the Russian Ministry of Interior Affairs in St. Petersburg in 1901. It was presumably meant to insure that priests keeping records would spell given names borne by Catholics appropriately, and consistently, in Russian script

My ability to read Cyrillic is rather basic and self-taught so I certainly make no claim to any real degree of expertise.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Dave



D64F0960.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  59.92 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

D64F0960.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:31 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

It is ALL super helpful!! Thank you!! I was able to find my great grandfather's marriage record by contacted the woman you suggested and I found out that he and that Aleksander Leszkiewicz are indeed brothers! Very cool! Thank you for your patience and your willingness to share your knowledge with me!
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:11 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
It is ALL super helpful!! Thank you!! I was able to find my great grandfather's marriage record by contacted the woman you suggested and I found out that he and that Aleksander Leszkiewicz are indeed brothers! Very cool! Thank you for your patience and your willingness to share your knowledge with me!


Hi,

Think nothing of the willingness to share what I’ve learned. It is my pleasure to do so. That was something I learned from my maternal grandfather. (When I was growing up we lived in the same house with our maternal grandparents and I learned a lot from them.) Frequently he used to say to me: “Darmo otrzymałeś, darmo dawaj.” (What you freely received, give freely.) It was one of the guiding principles by which he lived. It was only later that I learned that he was paraphrasing a line from one of the Gospels. Anyway, I’ve been fortunate that most of my formal education through grad school was paid for by scholarships and so in my view freely sharing what I’ve learned is just the right thing to do. Whatever patience I have came from my years as a teacher. In short...none of the above is a biggie.

What you learned from your great-grandfather’s marriage record is cool. BTW did the record shed any more light on his place of birth and baptism to confirm where he was from in Europe.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:51 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I love that quote/saying from your Grandpa! So neat that you got to know them so well. I grew up two states away from my grandparents and only would see them on Easter weekend every year. I wish I could have hung out with them more.

The marriage register from Evanston was really bare bones. Just had their parents names and the two witnesses names and that's it. But that's at least confirmation of Jos Leszkiewicz parents! Smile

I just found a really cool document (Canadian boarder crossing) for my Klimas family through my other Rakowski great grandparents that were also married in that same church in Evanston. In the Evanston records it said the bride (Louise Klimas) mother's name was Marianna Blaszczyk! The censuses said that my great grandmother's mother's name was Josephine Klimas and I could never find anything at all on her. (The Klimas' lived with the Rakowski's so I knew thier names)

So I searched Marianna Klimas and found out that she came over to America with not only with my great grandmother (Louise) but her two sisters as well! One of the daughters is also named Marianna, so maybe that's why she decided to start going by Josephine?

It also states Lisiec as the town. I wonder if there's a town that doesn't exist anymore near that Liseic nowy/wielki/maly area? It's puzzling that it's just listed as Lisiec on so many different documents. Also, I found the ship manifest as well and those Canadian's have MUCH nicer handwriting than New Yorkers! haha. But, that boarder crossing document also listed her place of birth Tuliszkow, which is right in the area that we're thinking.



Klimas Canadian Boarder Crossing.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  412.22 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Klimas Canadian Boarder Crossing.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:57 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
I love that quote/saying from your Grandpa! So neat that you got to know them so well. I grew up two states away from my grandparents and only would see them on Easter weekend every year. I wish I could have hung out with them more.

The marriage register from Evanston was really bare bones. Just had their parents names and the two witnesses names and that's it. But that's at least confirmation of Jos Leszkiewicz parents! Smile

I just found a really cool document (Canadian boarder crossing) for my Klimas family through my other Rakowski great grandparents that were also married in that same church in Evanston. In the Evanston records it said the bride (Louise Klimas) mother's name was Marianna Blaszczyk! The censuses said that my great grandmother's mother's name was Josephine Klimas and I could never find anything at all on her. (The Klimas' lived with the Rakowski's so I knew thier names)

So I searched Marianna Klimas and found out that she came over to America with not only with my great grandmother (Louise) but her two sisters as well! One of the daughters is also named Marianna, so maybe that's why she decided to start going by Josephine?

It also states Lisiec as the town. I wonder if there's a town that doesn't exist anymore near that Liseic nowy/wielki/maly area? It's puzzling that it's just listed as Lisiec on so many different documents. Also, I found the ship manifest as well and those Canadian's have MUCH nicer handwriting than New Yorkers! haha. But, that boarder crossing document also listed her place of birth Tuliszkow, which is right in the area that we're thinking.


Hi,

I certainly do consider myself fortunate to have known and spent time with three of my four grandparents. (My paternal grandfather died in Chicago when my dad was not quite 11 years old.) My paternal grandmother lived in the same neighborhood where we and my maternal grandparents lived so I saw her regularly. My mother went back to work after I was born and so my maternal grandparents cared for me and for my younger brother during the day while my parents worked. My brother and I were just talking last week about how good a childhood we had...But enough about that.

Maryanna/Maria/Mary was hands down the most common female given name in Poland and among immigrants. Perhaps she was given a middle name at birth or Josephine may have been her Confirmation name so your idea about using Josephine to distinguish herself from her daughter may be accurate.

Although RC priests were required by church law to keep baptismal, marriage, and burial records it was not specified what info was to be included. Religious publishing houses printed registers with headings for various bits of information to be included but it really was up to the parish priest what exactly he decided to enter. Depending on how detail oriented the priest was the entry could contain a wealth of info or, as in your case, just the bare bones. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, ‘Life is like a marriage register. You never know what you are going to find there.’ Every bit of info does help.

I don’t believe that there was another Lisiec besides Wielki, Mały and Nowy. Liciec Wielki was the largest and most populous of the three and was the most important since it was the site of the parish church. It is not really surprising that on English records the place is simply known as Lisiec. Immigration documents contained information written by immigration officials, which, in turn, depended on what they were told orally. Just as here in the States, in Europe there were overlapping levels of administration for any given area. When asked where are you from a person here could say Evanston or Cook County (or Chicago since Evanston borders Chicago, which is generally more well known than Evanston) or Illinois. The same was true in Europe. One could be quite specific and say Lisiec or be a bit more general and say Tuliszków since that was a more populous place or Konin since that was the powiat where Lisiec was located or even Warsaw since that was the gubienrna (province) in which all the other places were located. Then again it is possible that Maryanna/Josephine actually was born in Tuliszków and 38 years later was living in Lisiec. The upside is that records from Lisiec and from Tuliszków are available on Family Search. The downsides are that neither place’s records are indexed on Geneteka and that the online records can only be viewed at a Family History Center or an affiliate library—a bit less convenient, but doable.

Attached is a map of powiat Koninski from 1907 which shows the various places. Note that Lisiec has a cross on the circle which indicates that it was the site of a parish church.

I hope you are enjoying the search.

Dave



21.Koninski.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  127.3 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

21.Koninski.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:58 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Great info! love the map! (it's a bit off...but I'll let it slide since they didn't have satellite technology back then. haha)

I asked marcelproust to translate the Franciszek Rakowski Jr. marriage record I found in the Zagarow records (I actually found one! hooray!) and it said that his father, Franciszek Rakowski Sr. had already passed away when he got married in 1889. It said his mother was living in Cienin Koscielny at the time he got married.

So here's a new thing to tackle. Frank Sr. and Frank Jr were Jewish (Frank Jr married a Catholic woman and married in a Catholic church.) Do you know what the Jewish Synagogues for the Cienin Koscielny area would be? (West of Konin, I believe?). My mom's older brother told her that Frank Sr was an Hasidic Jew that owned a store/shop that was burned down twice because he was Jewish. Are those Jewish records online as well? I know there's one Jewish website that I've seen, but it costs $100 membership to view records on it.

As always all help is greatly appreciated! Smile
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1971
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:25 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

lindqm2 wrote:
Great info! love the map! (it's a bit off...but I'll let it slide since they didn't have satellite technology back then. haha)

I asked marcelproust to translate the Franciszek Rakowski Jr. marriage record I found in the Zagarow records (I actually found one! hooray!) and it said that his father, Franciszek Rakowski Sr. had already passed away when he got married in 1889. It said his mother was living in Cienin Koscielny at the time he got married.

So here's a new thing to tackle. Frank Sr. and Frank Jr were Jewish (Frank Jr married a Catholic woman and married in a Catholic church.) Do you know what the Jewish Synagogues for the Cienin Koscielny area would be? (West of Konin, I believe?). My mom's older brother told her that Frank Sr was an Hasidic Jew that owned a store/shop that was burned down twice because he was Jewish. Are those Jewish records online as well? I know there's one Jewish website that I've seen, but it costs $100 membership to view records on it.

As always all help is greatly appreciated! Smile


Hi again,

Jewish records from Poland is beyond my range of knowledge. My experience is limited to translating Latin baptismal records of converts from Judaism to Catholicism. One of my dad’s boyhood friends was Chaim (Hyman) Abrams, who like my dad was born in Poland, but everything I know about him is from his life in Chicago. Hy was a lawyer and my mom worked as his secretary. My dad would stop at the law office to visit his friend, met my mom there, asked her out and married her. In total my mom worked for him for 50 years (but with some breaks). In the longest stretch she worked for Hy from just prior to my dad’s death for 35 years until Hy retired. Hy & his wife and my parents were lifelong friends. Although Hy’s father, who died in Poland, was a rabbi, Hy, especially later in life, considered himself a cultural rather than a religious Jew. However, my mom would go with him to temple for the high holidays and he took part in the Catholic weddings and funerals of our family. For all that, I really don’t know what sort of records were/are kept by Synagogues. According to the Słownik geograficzny it appears that the closest Synagogue to Cienin Kościelny was in Konin. Cienin Kościelny is west of Konin between that town and Słupca. I’m not sure who was responsible for the actual keeping of civil Jewish records in Poland. I’ve seen sites for Jewish research in Poland but don’t have the links. One link I know of is to the Federation of Eastern European Family History Studies. It has links to other sites: https://feefhs.org/search/google?keys=jewish+research However, I’m not familiar with those sites.

I know that some individuals have been researching Jewish records on the PO Forum. Perhaps a post on a new thread on the forum requesting help/advice/guidance would give you helpful info.

Sorry that I can’t help more with these questions.

Congrats on finding the marriage record.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
lindqm2



Joined: 12 Jan 2020
Replies: 44

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:46 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I think I'm going to concentrate on the Catholic documents first and then I'll post something on this forum elsewhere to get started on the Jewish ancestors. Thank you for sharing your stories! They are very fun to read.

My 4 great grandparents were all born in Poland, so I'm a bit farther removed from the Polish culture. I only met one of them. My grandparents were the first generation born in the US. My grandpa would pronounce my name, Marsha, as "Martcha" with a quick rolled "r" and I always assumed it was a "Chicago" accent. A week after my grandpa Leszkiewicz passed, when I was in my late 20s, I went to lunch with an older co-worker and her parents. Her father called me "Martcha" as well and I was shocked and asked if he was from Chicago because that's exactly how my grandpa pronounced my name and he said "no" and confusingly chuckled. A few minutes later, my co-worker jokingly asked me "was your grandfather Polish?" (Because most folks in MN are German or Scandinavian) and I said "Yes, he was!". I think that her parents were first generation Americans as well. It was heartwarming to hear my name pronounce like that, especially since my grandpa had just past and I hadn't seen him in 15 years.
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2020 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM