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a4u2fear



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
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Location: NY/USA

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:36 pm      Post subject: need help! Mathias Zulke and Marianna Pankoska
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I'm getting closer. Dave you know some of this tale.

A bunch of my ancestors when married said they were from Debno, which can be found in the Mogilno parish records. All of the marriages and deaths were also in Debno. However, I could never find my direct great grandmother's birth record in these same records in Debno.

So i went back and looked for her youngest siblings births in Debno Mogilno. I found some of them, in 1838, 1835 and 1828 in Debno Mogilno. Great! I searched these until 1819 and did not see any others. In this time, there were 2-3 kids who I should have found. I know this from the marriage/death records. But nothing.

This is good news! I think. They must have been from somewhere else. Where? Who knows. Not the Mogilno parish.

So the parents of these kids - Mathias Zulke and Marianna Pankoska, their marriage is not listed on the Poznan project. I never found it. And they definitely got married well after 1800. Because of this, I have no idea where to search. Every single one of my ancestors I have found in the 1800 poznan project.

Now i'm getting closer, but still no end in sight?

Any thoughts? Thanks
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:45 am      Post subject: Re: need help! Mathias Zulke and Marianna Pankoska
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a4u2fear wrote:
I'm getting closer. Dave you know some of this tale.

A bunch of my ancestors when married said they were from Debno, which can be found in the Mogilno parish records. All of the marriages and deaths were also in Debno. However, I could never find my direct great grandmother's birth record in these same records in Debno.

So i went back and looked for her youngest siblings births in Debno Mogilno. I found some of them, in 1838, 1835 and 1828 in Debno Mogilno. Great! I searched these until 1819 and did not see any others. In this time, there were 2-3 kids who I should have found. I know this from the marriage/death records. But nothing.

This is good news! I think. They must have been from somewhere else. Where? Who knows. Not the Mogilno parish.

So the parents of these kids - Mathias Zulke and Marianna Pankoska, their marriage is not listed on the Poznan project. I never found it. And they definitely got married well after 1800. Because of this, I have no idea where to search. Every single one of my ancestors I have found in the 1800 poznan project.

Now i'm getting closer, but still no end in sight?

Any thoughts? Thanks


Hi,

I spent a little time looking at the Poznan Project marriages.

What do you think of this one? There is marriage #20 in Mogilno in 1815 for "Matthias Cilka" and "Marianna ?" where the indexer obviously could not read the bride's surname.

Are these some of the siblings' marriages? Is anyone missing? :

Mogilno, marriage 26, 1836, Martinus Jaskiewicz to Christina Zulke (father Matthias Zulke, mother Marianna Pankoska)

Mogilno, marriage 28, 1843 Joannes Liebner to Catharina Zulke (father Matthias Zulke, mother Marianna Pankau, could that really be Pankoska?)

Niestronno, marriage 8, 1843 Martinus Zulke (father Matthias Zulke, mother Marianna Pankoska) to Catharina Graczyk

Mogilno, marriage 11, 1847, Adalbertus Mahlke to Marianna Zuhlke (father Matthias Zulke, mother Marianna Pankoska)

Niestronno, marriage 4, 1864, Andreas Zulke (parents not listed) to Catharina Superczynska

Can you give me a link to where you are looking at the birth records, and your great-grandmother's name?

Best,
Sophia


Last edited by Sophia on Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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a4u2fear



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia

You’ve got me thinking. It could be them. In most cases the Z in Zulke is written and it looks like a C and the u has two dots over it so I’m this marriage record the name is written poorly and fading so could be Cilke or Zulke but the year of 1815 is in the right time line and his age matches when I found his death certificate. So I think at least for now it’s them. They had kids from 1816-1838 so that’s a good start.

I need to start in 1815 and start in births to find their first two kids. Why the kids in the 1819-mid 1820s aren’t found who knows they might’ve moved. My specific ancestor was Christine Zulke approx 1819 birth

Thanks you got me in the right direction
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:06 pm      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
Sophia

You’ve got me thinking. It could be them. In most cases the Z in Zulke is written and it looks like a C and the u has two dots over it so I’m this marriage record the name is written poorly and fading so could be Cilke or Zulke but the year of 1815 is in the right time line and his age matches when I found his death certificate. So I think at least for now it’s them. They had kids from 1816-1838 so that’s a good start.

I need to start in 1815 and start in births to find their first two kids. Why the kids in the 1819-mid 1820s aren’t found who knows they might’ve moved. My specific ancestor was Christine Zulke approx 1819 birth

Thanks you got me in the right direction


Hi,
I'm not sure what your knowledge is of Polish pronunciation and German pronunciation, so forgive me if I'm telling you something that you already know. It is not just faded writing or poor handwriting. These are two forms of the same surname, in my opinion. The sound of a German saying Zülke would be very much like a Pole saying Cylke. From there, it is not much of a stretch for the spelling to morph to Cilka (although to a Pole it would change the pronunciation very much). I do think you should consider adding Cylke and Cilka to your search strategy.
Best of luck in finding the missing kids!
Sophia
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 am      Post subject:
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Thanks Sophia I didn’t know that. Great info. I better find these kids!
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:44 am      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
Thanks Sophia I didn’t know that. Great info. I better find these kids!


I hope that you are able to find the kids you are looking for. It is possible that you had looked for them earlier, by scanning through those pages of baptisms and looking for them by first name, followed by looking to see if the father was Matthias Zulke and the mother Marianna. Now you are retracing your steps, open to the possibility that the father's surname will appear as Cylka or some such spelling.

But what if they still are not there? I would like to add that marriages were typically in the parish of the bride. The wedding for Matthias Cilka to Marianna (surname unspecified) is in the same place as where you have found the younger childrens' births and also later on their marriages, so this is presumably where Marianna was from. However, it does not mean that the early years of Matthias and Marianna's married life also had to be in this place. If their marriage record does not tell you where Matthias was from, you might just do a search of the Poznan marriages for all Cylka and again for all Zulke and see if there is a cluster of them in another church. In particular, I think if you can see where the Cylka and Zulke women are being married, it would be a good clue as to where to search for the older kids you seek, with the hypothesis being that in the years after they were married, Matthias and Marianna lived in the place that he was from.

Hope this helps.
Sophia
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:40 pm      Post subject:
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looking and looking. their marriage in Debno/Mogilno did not specify where Mathias was from unfortunately

I have searched and knocked off Mogilno and Gniekowo searching for the oldest kids birth records. Gniekowo had a bunch of Cylke Culke Zulke marriage matches in poznan, and there were plenty of those kids in there in the years I searched, but no direct matches to the parents/kids names I am searching for.

need some luck
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