PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Author
Message
mroder



Joined: 09 Jun 2020
Replies: 8
Location: UK

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:30 am      Post subject: Waldemar Roder from Niespodzianka, Lesmierz, Lodz
Reply with quote

Hi, I'm hoping someone maybe able to help me with my search.

I am trying to locate any records of my grandfather or any of his family pre 1943 which is when he arrived in the UK. I have managed to get a copy of army records from the MOD which state that he was from Niespodzianka, Lesmierz, Lodz. His name was Waldemar RODER and his date of birth is listed as 02 March 1928. The records also state his fathers name as Ludwig RODER and his mothers name looks like Lidia although the records state he could not remember her maiden name.

This is all I have ever managed to find as I seem to draw a blank everywhere I look.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
View user's profile
Send private message
mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron


Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 754

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:38 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hello,

The military record is a great start. Did you also collect all of his family records from the UK such as: marriage, death record, immigration record, etc.?

It is unclear from what you wrote in your original post what you actually have. You mentioned you obtained military records - what do the records say? In what army was he serving? Was he a POW? Was he a displaced citizen that came to the UK from a Displaced Persons Camp? Where did he enlist in the military (in the UK or Poland or elsewhere?)

Have you seen variations on his surname (Roder) such as: Rader, Ruder, Roeder, Wroder, Rode, etc.

Also, what faith tradition was his family? Roman Catholic? Jewish? Evangelical?

Knowing more information such as the above will guide you (and us) as to where to look to find information.

Finally, since his birth record is recent (1928), due to privacy policies in Poland, you will probably not find it in any public database. You will have to make a request for a search of the record from either the civil records office or the church (if he was Catholic). They will ask you to provide proof of relationship to him. You might be able to accomplish this yourself via email or postal mail, or you might want to hire a genealogy researcher in Poland (such as the folks here at Polish Origins) to help you with it.

FYI, from what I can gather: Leśmierz [ˈlɛɕmjɛʂ] is a village in the administrative district of Gmina Ozorków, within Zgierz County, Łódź Voivodeship, in central Poland.

There are some parish books online for the administrative district of Ozorków but they only go up to 1913 at the latest. Also, you will notice there are Roman Cathilic, Evangelical, and Jewish records listed for Ozorków. Here is a link in case you want to try and look at them for the Roder family name - but the records will be written in Russian Cursive. I checked the books and I did not see any records for Roder (I did see some for Rode):

https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/pow-368

Perhaps other members of the community can add to or correct what I have said here.

BTW, it may also be helpful if you could post an image of the military records you have to this thread so we can see them. We might be able to see clues that your eyes missed....

Wishing you best of luck in your search,
Cynthia
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
mroder



Joined: 09 Jun 2020
Replies: 8
Location: UK

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:32 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Cynthia

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and give me some suggestions.

I have his marriage record and death record from here in the UK but it offers no further information on him from before he arrived here. He refused to speak to us of his life in Poland and all we know from him is that he was rounded up by the germans as a child and sent to a labour camp and never saw his parents or siblings again.

The only records I have are from the MOD as I have never found anything else. I also wrote to the Civil Regisrty Office in Ozorkow but had a reply from them telling me that had nothing on him.

I cannot recall seeing anything that told me me the faith of the family although I could be wrong.

I will dig out the records for him tomorrow and attach them to my post.

Once again thank you
View user's profile
Send private message
mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron


Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 754

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:31 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Have you tried getting his immigration records?

If he was in a labor camp, then he was likely processed through one of the European Displaced Persons centers before being accepted by the UK for entry.

I am also wondering if he changed his name after immigrating. Any evidence of that possibility?

Cynthia
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
mroder



Joined: 09 Jun 2020
Replies: 8
Location: UK

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:02 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Cynthia

I have no evidence of him changing his name any where.

I have attached all the information I received from the MOD. This is the only information I have ever managed to find on him anywhere and am at a bit of a loss as to where to go next.

Perhaps someone who has more knowledge than me of these things would kindly take a look and I would be so grateful of any suggestions

Thank you
Michelle



war records PDF.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  war records PDF.pdf
 Filesize:  2.59 MB
 Downloaded:  121 Time(s)

View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 661

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:50 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

mroder wrote:
Hi Cynthia

I have no evidence of him changing his name any where.

I have attached all the information I received from the MOD. This is the only information I have ever managed to find on him anywhere and am at a bit of a loss as to where to go next.

Perhaps someone who has more knowledge than me of these things would kindly take a look and I would be so grateful of any suggestions

Thank you
Michelle


Hi Michelle and Cynthia,
Great document! For sure we now know he was Roman Catholic. Even though you will not likely find his birth record online, you might be able to get his parents' marriage record, or perhaps his father's birth record, in the catholic records that are online for Ozorkow.
Michelle, have you had this fully translated? I can understand parts of it. But here on the forum you can request a full translation.
Sophia

P.S. I think I read his mother's name as Julia, rather than Lidia.
View user's profile
Send private message
mroder



Joined: 09 Jun 2020
Replies: 8
Location: UK

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:47 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi

They look like great documents to me but I cant read a word Laughing

I have not had them translated, the only bits I know are the ones Ive done myself using google translate although the handwriting is very difficult to decipher if you dont know the language.

How do I go about getting them fully translated as that sounds amazing?

PS now that you have said it the name also looks more like Julia to me too

Thank you for taking the time to look at them for me
View user's profile
Send private message
mroder



Joined: 09 Jun 2020
Replies: 8
Location: UK

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:50 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I also have this document that his employers here in the UK wrote to be read at his funeral. Although there is some limited information on it I have no idea how true any of it was as it was just things people had heard over the years


6.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  98.33 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

6.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron


Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 754

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:02 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hello,

All you have to do is post the PDF file in the forum entitled: "Polish Records Translation" and in the subject line request a full translation of the document. There is no charge for the translation, although some volunteers who do the translating request a donation if are so inclined.

I think you will get much more out of it when translated.

Cynthia
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
mroder



Joined: 09 Jun 2020
Replies: 8
Location: UK

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:44 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hello

Thank you so much for your help Cynthia. I have now requested a translation

Michelle x
View user's profile
Send private message
mcdonald0517
PO Top Contributor & Patron


Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 754

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:29 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Michelle,

I did notice from the military records that he kept identifying "Stanislaw Dobrzynski of Orzokow" as the person to notify in case of accident. That could be another family to try to locate in Poland and connect with them.

I did find a 1905 birth record for Stanislaw Dobrzynski in Orzokow - perhaps he was an uncle or cousin. Here is the link in the Geneteka database for the record:

https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=05ld&rid=403&search_lastname=Dobrzynski&search_name=Stanislaw&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=

Best,
Cynthia
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
Piotr Zelny
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Replies: 61
Location: Sanok

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:30 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Michelle

I tell you something, although I didn’t know your grandfather Waldemar I think that he had great sense of humour. I was searching for Niespodzianka village, then checked Ozorków and Leśmierz and names of districts (parts) of these two towns, then their vicinity, further vicinity and nothing, no Niespodzianka anywhere. I checked the register of settlements in Poland from 1931, there were just three villages of this name then but in other regions of the country. He provided the name of exact region: gmina Leśmierz in county of Łęczyca, so it couldn't be those villages. And then I understood. Niespodzianka in polish stands for “surprise”. He was joking, hehe. Did you know him, was he always like that? In the document which you provided, on page 3 (next page), paragraph X, there is written place of his residence: village Maszkowice, gmina (the lowest administrative unite) Leśmierz, county Łęczyca. There you must search for information on your amusing grandfather. It might have been that he wasn’t completely sure of his precise place of borne, there might be many reasons.

There you are, the books of residents of the village of Maszkowice (1873 – 1931):
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/52/24/0/2/523?q=maszkowice+XARCHro:39+50+52&wynik=7&rpp=15&page=1#tabJednostka
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/52/24/0/2/524?q=maszkowice+XARCHro:39+50+52&wynik=8&rpp=15&page=1#tabJednostka

In 1931 Maszkowice belonged to the parish of Modlna. The vital books of this parish are in the State Archive in Łódż. But the books finish on the year of 1913. There you may find records of your grand…graeatparents.
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/search?q=modlna%20XTYPEro%3Apra&order=

The vital books from the period when your grandfather was borne (1928) may be in the Registry Office in Ozorków or in the parish archive in Modlna.

Good luck
Piotr
View user's profile
Send private message
Piotr Zelny
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Replies: 61
Location: Sanok

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:25 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I checked geneteka datebase, no records of Roder family in Modlna, at least till 1913. They could have come to Maszkowice from other suprising place.
Cynthia has already found Stanislaw Dobrzynski in Ozorków, so this is another clue. I'd check the books of residents of Maszkowice, check vital books from 1928 (in baptismal record can be place of origin of parents) and look for contact with the family of Dobrzyński from Ozorków.

Piotr
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 661

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:08 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

mcdonald0517 wrote:
Hi Michelle,

I did notice from the military records that he kept identifying "Stanislaw Dobrzynski of Orzokow" as the person to notify in case of accident. That could be another family to try to locate in Poland and connect with them.

I did find a 1905 birth record for Stanislaw Dobrzynski in Orzokow - perhaps he was an uncle or cousin. Here is the link in the Geneteka database for the record:

https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=05ld&rid=403&search_lastname=Dobrzynski&search_name=Stanislaw&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=

Best,
Cynthia


Hi Michelle, Cynthia and Piotr,
Excellent find, Cynthia! For Michelle, who may not be familiar with how to navigate this, you can see the image of that birth/baptism record here:
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=3&zs=1610d&sy=1905&kt=1&plik=118-123.jpg#zoom=1.75&x=1771&y=1835
It is entry number 123. It is written in Russian, but the most important names are also written in Polish. The child's name is Stanislaw Dobrzynski .... but ... it is possible that the spelling was meant to be Dobrzanski (with accent over the A) because if you look at the writing in the margin, you will find a note added by the priest at the time of Stanislaw's marriage, and there his surname is given as Dobrzanski. Cynthia, if you go back to Geneteka and search that spelling of the surname, there are other people in that church with that name. Just to complete this - - Stanislaw's father was Ludwik Dobrzynski, his mother was Maryanna Brzedkow, and in the margin note, his wife was Stefanja Kopalska. Any of these three family names could be the link to Waldemar Roder.
Best regards,
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 661

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:17 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

mroder wrote:
Hi Cynthia

I have no evidence of him changing his name any where.

I have attached all the information I received from the MOD. This is the only information I have ever managed to find on him anywhere and am at a bit of a loss as to where to go next.

Perhaps someone who has more knowledge than me of these things would kindly take a look and I would be so grateful of any suggestions

Thank you
Michelle


Hi again Michelle,
I want to comment on one particular part of the document. It consists of 8 pages, and I want to draw your attention to the 7th page, in the box for question 22. What is written there is that Waldemar made an error with writing his surname (this refers back to your page 6 where it asks for "nazwisko i imiona"). As you see on page 6, he first wrote "Waldemar Roder" and then realized he was supposed to put the surname first, then given name, so he did a cross-out and a correction. I am saying this, just to be plain that the wording for question 22 is not any indication of him having actually changed his name (which was a really good question that Cynthia had asked). This is how I interpret it.
Best regards,
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2021 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM