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Janiak and Sopczak Families
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Dave and Sophia,

You guys are so helpful! I am a little confused about my family tree right now.

So Wojciech Janiak (born 1880) was the son of Walenty Janiak (b 1831) and Jadwiga Strzelczyk (b.1839). Im confused about his grandparents since they married twice?

Walenty Janiak was the son of Kazimierz Janiak and Marianna Lipinska(?-1857), and his stepfather is Stanislaw Olszewski?

Jadwiga Strzelczyk is the daughter of Antoni Strzelczyk (?-1857) and Marianna Sobelewska z domu Grochalska. Does this mean her maiden name is Grochalska and she married again someone with the last name Sobelewska?

Thank you for you continued help! My pile of records for translation is building up!

Nick
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:55 pm      Post subject:
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Also, I found this attached record for a possible marriage for Kazimierz Janiak and Marianna Lipinska on Poznan project. The names are a little different but do you think it is them or should I look elsewhere? Im getting better at reading the Polish names but I still have a hard time! Thank you!

Nick



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nick3371



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Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:21 pm      Post subject:
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Actually, I found in the death record that her parents were Franciszek Lipinski and Katarzyna. I checked BaSia and Poznan for Kazimierz Janiak but didn't see anything. Any advice on where to look from here for the Janiaks?

Also, for Antoni Strzelczyk- the death record you gave shows his wife as Wiktora Grochalska, not Marianna Grochalska, Jadwiga's mother. I will have to get the whole document translated to better understand this but can you explain it? Is this a differen Antoni? Thank you!
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:32 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Hi Dave and Sophia,

You guys are so helpful! I am a little confused about my family tree right now.

So Wojciech Janiak (born 1880) was the son of Walenty Janiak (b 1831) and Jadwiga Strzelczyk (b.1839). Im confused about his grandparents since they married twice?

Walenty Janiak was the son of Kazimierz Janiak and Marianna Lipinska(?-1857), and his stepfather is Stanislaw Olszewski?

Jadwiga Strzelczyk is the daughter of Antoni Strzelczyk (?-1857) and Marianna Sobelewska z domu Grochalska. Does this mean her maiden name is Grochalska and she married again someone with the last name Sobelewska?

Thank you for you continued help! My pile of records for translation is building up!

Nick


Hi Nick,

You are correct that Wojciech Janiak was the son of Walenty Janiak & Jadwiga Strzelczyk. Walenty Janiak & Jadwiga Strzelczyk were married on September 21, 1856 in Wilczyn. Walenty Janiak was the son of Kazimierz Janiak and of Marianna Lipińska. At the time of the wedding Walenty’s father, Kazimierz, was deceased and his mother had married her second husband, Stanisław Olszewski. His mother died on December 11, 1857. She had been the daughter of the late Franciszek & Katarzyna Lipiński.

Jadwiga Strzelczyk was the daughter of Antoni Strzelczyk & Wiktoria nee Grochalska. Her father was the son of Andrzej & Jadwiga Strzelczyk. Her mother was the daughter of Józef & Marianna Grochalski. Wiktoria was a widow when she married Antoni Strzelczyk in the parish of Złotków on June 13, 1832. The surname of her first husband was Sobolewski. Jadwiga Strzelczyk’s birth & marriage records list her mother as Marianna. This error probably occurred in her birth record and was perpetuated in her marriage record when the parish priest looked up her baptismal record. The record of her father’s death and of the marriage of her parents record her mother’s name as Wiktoria, which is almost certainly her correct name.

Just to add to your growing stack of records the marriage record of Antoni Strzelczyk & Wiktoria nee Grochalska (1st husband Sobolewski) is attached.

I hope this info helps you to make sense of the tree.

Dave

PS I don't know how 2 copies of the marriage got posted. They are both the same so ignore the duplicate.



1832 Zlotkow #5 Marriage Antoni Strzelczyk & Wiktoria Grocholska widow Sobolewska.jpg
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:58 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Actually, I found in the death record that her parents were Franciszek Lipinski and Katarzyna. I checked BaSia and Poznan for Kazimierz Janiak but didn't see anything. Any advice on where to look from here for the Janiaks?

Also, for Antoni Strzelczyk- the death record you gave shows his wife as Wiktora Grochalska, not Marianna Grochalska, Jadwiga's mother. I will have to get the whole document translated to better understand this but can you explain it? Is this a differen Antoni? Thank you!


Hi Nick,

In my opinion the name of Jadwiga’s mother is Wiktoria. Maryanna is probably an error. All the records have her father being a shepherd and her parents living on the same manorial farmstead (folwark). The maiden name of her mother is consistent. It would seem to be too great a stretch for there to have been 2 Antoni Strzelczyks who were shepherds on the same farmstead married to 2 women of the same maiden name having a daughter Jadwiga who is of the correct age to both marry Walenty Janiak. Antoni Strzelczyk’s death record reinforces the connections. He was a shepherd who died on the same folwark and the record lists his survivors as his widow, Wiltoria nee Grocholska and 4 children—Jadwiga, Maryanna, Eleonora, & Józefa. It would be helpful to find the birth records of the other 3 daughters and of any other children who may have died young. Since Antoni frequently appears as a witness or as a godparent in records from Wilczyn it seems that the couple lived in the same place for close to 20 years and the parish of Wilczyn would be the logical place to look for the births of other children. Just because they don’t show up on a database like BaSia doesn’t mean that they were not born in the parish of Wilczyn. Keep in mind that records are indexed by volunteers and that the various databases are works in progress.

I would not discard the marriage you found from Piotrów Kujawski but I would not spend too much time & energy on it. It would just be a maybe for the future. To determine if it is connected to your family it would be helpful to find the birth record of your Marcjanna Lipinska. (Marcjanna and Maryanna are not the same name. The English for Marcjanna is Martine). Attached is the marriage record from Piotrów Kujawski for future reference.

I hope you are having fun with your research.

Dave



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Sophia
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:41 am      Post subject:
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Hi Nick and Dave,
Even after two cups of coffee, I can hardly keep up with you guys! The number of documents you have found is very impressive at this point.
Nick, try not to hurry through it too quickly. Sometimes there are little details worth making note of. I’m not sure if you noticed, on the ship manifest for Stefan Janiak (who is on line 4) headed to his father Walenty Janiak at 92 Salem Street, Boston, that there was another traveler, Franz Budny (line 5) and his destination (second page of the manifest) was his brother-in-law Wojciech Janiak, 84 Salem Street, Boston.
The other record where you see the Budny name is in the marriage of Wojciek Janiak to Teofila Sobczak, where one of the witnesses to the marriage is Marcin Budny.
It is always interesting to see emigration in terms of its “push factors” and “pull factors.” We focus sometimes on why someone left where they lived (economic factors, etc.) but once someone was established in North America, their “pull” to draw relatives to be with them was a very strong force.
Good luck assembling your tree!
Sophia
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:29 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you Dave and Sophia!

Your explanation definitely cleared things up-I will start searching for more records! Sophia, I would never have even noticed that connection-I'll have to look into it further. I'm sure ill be back soon with more questions! Thank you!

Nick
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:19 am      Post subject:
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Hi again!

So back to the Sobczak family for now... I am going to a FamilySearch accessible library sometime next week to try and find Teofila's birth record and any other family records not online.

I believe that I found her mother, Nepomucena Ligocka's birth record in 1857 in Wilków, Morzyslaw. I will post it to be translated, but I want to give Marcel a break since I've asked for so many and have many more. I'm trying to decipher the Polish records myself, but this one is a little confusing. I see that the husband is usually listed in the beginning but this records looks like Kerol Weloska? (word that begins with M?) Ligocki. Do you know what this part is saying? Do you see her mother's name anywhere in the record? I've had some luck reading other Polish records but this one is tough for me!

Nick
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:26 am      Post subject:
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:02 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Hi again!

So back to the Sobczak family for now... I am going to a FamilySearch accessible library sometime next week to try and find Teofila's birth record and any other family records not online.

I believe that I found her mother, Nepomucena Ligocka's birth record in 1857 in Wilków, Morzyslaw. I will post it to be translated, but I want to give Marcel a break since I've asked for so many and have many more. I'm trying to decipher the Polish records myself, but this one is a little confusing. I see that the husband is usually listed in the beginning but this records looks like Kerol Weloska? (word that begins with M?) Ligocki. Do you know what this part is saying? Do you see her mother's name anywhere in the record? I've had some luck reading other Polish records but this one is tough for me!

Nick


Hi Nick,
I took a look at the record you posted. I may be able to assist in reading the names, but as to how they all fit together in the context of the record... that's for someone fluent in Polish to help you with.
The underlined name is probably Karol Walczak. Then Maciej Ligocki.
The mother's name is Malgorzata. Her surname (Musiel?) I need more time to think about. You see the very same surname further down in the document, as Maryanna Musielowna, if I'm not mistaken.
What I'm doing, Nick, to help with the surnames, is going to the 1857 record book online and reading the indices of births, marriages and deaths. The handwriting there is quite good. This gives a sense of what families are in this parish. You'd do well to look at additional years. That is how I arrived at the name Walczak, which, frankly, does not look very clearly like Walczak as written in this record, but I think it could be.
Sophia
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:49 am      Post subject:
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Thank you Sophia!

I found a marriage record on Poznan project for Maciej Ligocki and Małgorzata Musiela.



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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:54 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Thank you Sophia!

I found a marriage record on Poznan project for Maciej Ligocki and Małgorzata Musiela.


That's great!
And from what you posted, you now also know that Maciej Ligocki was a widower, and his first wife's name was Teofila Szymanska.
You really are zooming along!
Sophia
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:00 am      Post subject:
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Nick,
One more detail for you to know (if you have not already seen it) since you are using the Poznan Project to search. In the drop-down menu for male given names, you might have noticed that Wojciech is not there. Except, it is. You have to look way up at the beginning of the alphabet, where they have made "Adalbert/Wojciech" a choice.
Way back when we started discussing your family, we talked about your Wojciech who became Archie. You mentioned there were some records with Adalbert. The reason for this is not that Wojciech is the Polish form of the name and Adalbert is the German form of the name. Rather, it has to do with the saint being honored by these names. Here is a good quick description:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adalbert
Best,
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:32 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
nick3371 wrote:
Hi again!

So back to the Sobczak family for now... I am going to a FamilySearch accessible library sometime next week to try and find Teofila's birth record and any other family records not online.

I believe that I found her mother, Nepomucena Ligocka's birth record in 1857 in Wilków, Morzyslaw. I will post it to be translated, but I want to give Marcel a break since I've asked for so many and have many more. I'm trying to decipher the Polish records myself, but this one is a little confusing. I see that the husband is usually listed in the beginning but this records looks like Kerol Weloska? (word that begins with M?) Ligocki. Do you know what this part is saying? Do you see her mother's name anywhere in the record? I've had some luck reading other Polish records but this one is tough for me!

Nick


Hi Nick,
I took a look at the record you posted. I may be able to assist in reading the names, but as to how they all fit together in the context of the record... that's for someone fluent in Polish to help you with.
The underlined name is probably Karol Walczak. Then Maciej Ligocki.
The mother's name is Malgorzata. Her surname (Musiel?) I need more time to think about. You see the very same surname further down in the document, as Maryanna Musielowna, if I'm not mistaken.
What I'm doing, Nick, to help with the surnames, is going to the 1857 record book online and reading the indices of births, marriages and deaths. The handwriting there is quite good. This gives a sense of what families are in this parish. You'd do well to look at additional years. That is how I arrived at the name Walczak, which, frankly, does not look very clearly like Walczak as written in this record, but I think it could be.
Sophia


Hi Nick & Sophia,

The marriage info confirms the parents of Nepomucyna as Maciej Ligocki & Małgorzata Musiela. (Kawnice is about 10 km west of Konin.)The birth record is most probably hers. However, as written it does have a problem. The underlined Karol seems to be an error. Here are the players in the record. (Players since Musiela/Musiel comes from the same root as Musiał like in Stan the man of baseball fame.)
The lineup (without the extra prose):
Maciej Ligocki, father & informant, age 40
Małgorzata Musiela/Musiel, mother, age 30
Nepomucyna Ligocka, child, born on May 3, 1857 at 4pm & baptized on May 10
Witnesses: Jan Grześczak (current spelling: Grzeszczak) & Tomasz Janiak
Baptismal sponsors aka godparents: the above mentioned Jan Grześczak & Maryanna Musiela/Musiel
Scratched from the lineup: The underlined Karol

Keep in mind that priests hired scribes to compose the civil copies of records. The scribe worked from notes the parish priest composed when arrangements were made for the baptism and the report of the birth was made. Multiple copies were made by the scribe which increased the chances of errors.

Sophia, could Wojtek, the Polish soldier bear from WWII, be related to any of the other Wojteks? (Ha, Ha)

Nick, since you are going to a Family History Library I would recommend that you make copies of the ecclesiastical records, which will be in Latin and most likely were composed by the parish priest himself—less chance for errors to creep in. The same recommendation applies to the Strzelczyk records from Wilczyn. The more evidence found, the more certain the conclusions.

I hope that you are enjoying the search for your ancestors.

Dave
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:08 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Dave and Nick,
Problem solved! If you go back to the book for 1857 for Morzyslaw, you see that the record you copied is Akt 24, but if you then look at Akt 25 the father's name is Karol Walczak. So, Dave, it is just as you said, a scribal error. As to your question about the family tree of Wojtek, the soldier bear, I have not yet started that research! However, I do recall reading an article about a statue of that bear being placed. Quite a brave bear, not to mention the courage of the soldiers who worked with him.
All the best,
Sophia
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