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Janiak and Sopczak Families
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:26 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Dave and Nick,
Problem solved! If you go back to the book for 1857 for Morzyslaw, you see that the record you copied is Akt 24, but if you then look at Akt 25 the father's name is Karol Walczak. So, Dave, it is just as you said, a scribal error. As to your question about the family tree of Wojtek, the soldier bear, I have not yet started that research! However, I do recall reading an article about a statue of that bear being placed. Quite a brave bear, not to mention the courage of the soldiers who worked with him.
All the best,
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

The statue of Wojtek is in Edinburgh, Scotland. After the war that was where his group demobilized and he mustered out. (If I remember correctly, he ended up with the rank of corporal.) He then ended up in the Edinburgh zoo where he died in 1963. There are several YouTube videos starring Wojtek.

Dave
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:41 pm      Post subject:
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You guys are too funny! I did enjoy learning about Wojtek the bear-something I've never heard of before!

I keep getting father farther and farther back in my family tree. For now I'm looking for direct ancestors and then will look for siblings. There's so much to learn! I am having trouble with finding anything on Kazimierz Janiak married to Martianna Lipinska. Any advice on where to look?

I'm really enjoying my research. I've been doing genealogy for many years but this is the first time looking into my Polish roots and it's very interesting to hear all of your tips and background information. I appreciate your help!

Thanks,

Nick
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:22 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
You guys are too funny! I did enjoy learning about Wojtek the bear-something I've never heard of before!

I keep getting father farther and farther back in my family tree. For now I'm looking for direct ancestors and then will look for siblings. There's so much to learn! I am having trouble with finding anything on Kazimierz Janiak married to Martianna Lipinska. Any advice on where to look?

I'm really enjoying my research. I've been doing genealogy for many years but this is the first time looking into my Polish roots and it's very interesting to hear all of your tips and background information. I appreciate your help!

Thanks,

Nick


Hi Nick,
When you say you are having trouble finding anything on Kazimierz Janiak, and Marianna Lipinska, does it mean you cannot find any other Poznan Project entries? Or are you actually looking at indices in church books?
It's possible that records exist that have not been indexed on the Poznan Project. It is also possible that the images of church records you need are for years that are not online.
The approach is to see, from whatever your last record of each person is, what place they are said to have been from, and look there.
Sophia
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:05 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Sophia!

I went back through the books for all the possible Parishes for the possible date (~1831) of Walenty's birth and didn't find anything. I also looked through the death records between that date and the date of his mother's death, since she had remarried by then, and didn't find a death record for Kazimierz. But I think I was looking in the wrong parishes....

In the marriage record for Walenty and Jadwiga Strzelczyk which Dave attached, I believe it says he was born in Gradowice? Apologies if one of you has already said this, I went back and checked but didn't see anything. Lots of information to keep track of!

I looked up Gradowice on Kartenmesiter ( http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=32824) and I believe its in the parish of Wielichowo? Though the entry says 1905 next to Wielichowo- does that mean it was in a different parish before 1905? If so how would I find out which parish?

I'm currently going through what I think are the correct records from the archive. If it is the correct parish, could one of you post the link to the corresponding parish book from the archives? I think I have it, but I've gone through the wrong records in the past! Also, would you be able to post the link from FamilySearch that shows what records are available. Again, I just want to make sure I have the correct one, especially before going to the FamilySearch library. I may be looking in the wrong place!

Thank you!

Nick
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:25 pm      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Hi Sophia!

I went back through the books for all the possible Parishes for the possible date (~1831) of Walenty's birth and didn't find anything. I also looked through the death records between that date and the date of his mother's death, since she had remarried by then, and didn't find a death record for Kazimierz. But I think I was looking in the wrong parishes....

In the marriage record for Walenty and Jadwiga Strzelczyk which Dave attached, I believe it says he was born in Gradowice? Apologies if one of you has already said this, I went back and checked but didn't see anything. Lots of information to keep track of!

I looked up Gradowice on Kartenmesiter ( http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=32824) and I believe its in the parish of Wielichowo? Though the entry says 1905 next to Wielichowo- does that mean it was in a different parish before 1905? If so how would I find out which parish?

I'm currently going through what I think are the correct records from the archive. If it is the correct parish, could one of you post the link to the corresponding parish book from the archives? I think I have it, but I've gone through the wrong records in the past! Also, would you be able to post the link from FamilySearch that shows what records are available. Again, I just want to make sure I have the correct one, especially before going to the FamilySearch library. I may be looking in the wrong place!

Thank you!

Nick


Hi Nick,
I thought it said that Walenty was born in Wilczogora, which was served by the church in Wilczyn.
However, now I see from the translation that although he lived in Wilczogora, he was actually born in Gradowo. That is not the same as Gradowice, as far as I know.
Looking at a map, I wonder if it is served by the church in Piotrkow Kujawski.
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:19 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
nick3371 wrote:
Hi Sophia!

I went back through the books for all the possible Parishes for the possible date (~1831) of Walenty's birth and didn't find anything. I also looked through the death records between that date and the date of his mother's death, since she had remarried by then, and didn't find a death record for Kazimierz. But I think I was looking in the wrong parishes....

In the marriage record for Walenty and Jadwiga Strzelczyk which Dave attached, I believe it says he was born in Gradowice? Apologies if one of you has already said this, I went back and checked but didn't see anything. Lots of information to keep track of!

I looked up Gradowice on Kartenmesiter ( http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=32824) and I believe its in the parish of Wielichowo? Though the entry says 1905 next to Wielichowo- does that mean it was in a different parish before 1905? If so how would I find out which parish?

I'm currently going through what I think are the correct records from the archive. If it is the correct parish, could one of you post the link to the corresponding parish book from the archives? I think I have it, but I've gone through the wrong records in the past! Also, would you be able to post the link from FamilySearch that shows what records are available. Again, I just want to make sure I have the correct one, especially before going to the FamilySearch library. I may be looking in the wrong place!

Thank you!

Nick


Hi Nick,
I thought it said that Walenty was born in Wilczogora, which was served by the church in Wilczyn.
However, now I see from the translation that although he lived in Wilczogora, he was actually born in Gradowo. That is not the same as Gradowice, as far as I know.
Looking at a map, I wonder if it is served by the church in Piotrkow Kujawski.
Sophia


Hi Nick & Sophia,

Grodowo indeed was part of the parish of Piotrkowo (currently Piotrków Kujawski). Attached is a copy of his birth record. Better yet, the marriage that you thought possibly was that of Kazimierz & Marcjanna is actually the correct marriage so when I attached a copy of that marriage for possible future use is now of use for you. (The image is a few posts back.) Attached is the birth record of Walenty. Here is a link to where the records are located: https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ It is the site were you can find records for the parishes whose records are housed in the Włocławek branch of the Polish National Archives is Toruń. Also, attached is a map of powiat Nieszawski from 1907 when it was under Russian rule.

Ain’t it great when the stars align and things come together? It must be like the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

Dave



1831 Piotrkow Kujawski ur #4 Walenty Janiak.jpg
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:18 am      Post subject:
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Hi Nick,
You may be puzzled, right about now, regarding place names. When you look at the image of Walenty's marriage to Jadwiga, you clearly see "wsi Gradowie" which you took to mean Gradowice. Yet the translator gives the name of this village as Gradowo. Similarly, you look at the image of the document and see "Wilczygorze" but it is translated as Wilczogora. This is just a delightful feature of Polish grammar, where the endings of place names are dependent on which grammatical case they are in. Because this record is in paragraph form, we are encountering the place names in phrases, such as "from Wilczogora" or "in Gradowo." When Elzbieta used to do the Polish translations here on the forum, she used to say we have to "recover the nominative" form of the place name, a description that I really like. You need to be able to take away the ending that exists in the document, and paste on a new ending, to get a place name back into its nominative case, which is how it will be found on a map. That is not the easiest thing to do, even for a seasoned translator, but as you found out it is essential if you want to get to the right church book! We are so incredibly fortunate, here on the forum, to have such skilled translators for Latin, Polish, German and Russian documents.
By the way, if you go to Google Translate, it will often get these place name endings wrong, whether you type in the English phrase and ask it for a Polish translation, or if you type in the Polish phrase and ask it to translate to English. Don't rely on it!
I hope this helps you a bit.
Sophia

P.S. Dave, I see you are getting all "Fifth Dimension" on us! Well, then, Let The Sunshine In!
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nick3371



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Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:55 am      Post subject:
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Wow you guys have done it again! I was wayyyyyyy off! Thank you for providing the link and map, Dave. I find it so interesting how the borders have changed so much in this region. Thank you Sophia for the insight into place names and the language-I'm learning much more than I thought I would through this process! I've only dealt with American and Italian records when exploring other branches of my family tree and Poland has been much more difficult, yet so interesting to do research! I'm very thankful to have both of you and the amazing translators to guide me!

Nick
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nick3371



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Post Posted: 6 Days ago at 9:50 am      Post subject:
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Hello all,

I am looking to see what kind of records are available for Chrosno, located near Gradowo, Poland. Here's the Kartenmeister link http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=30227 . Where would I look for records for this town? Marcelproust just kindly tranlslated a marriage record for Kazimierz Janiak and Marianna or Martianna Lipinska and it states that she was from here, "Marianna Lipińska, a miss, daughter of spouses: Michał Lipiński and the late Katarzyna lipińska, who lived in Chrosno, 19 years old, born in Chrosno, living in Gradowo and working as a servant".

Any guidance would be great!

Thank you!
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Sophia
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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 5:47 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Hello all,

I am looking to see what kind of records are available for Chrosno, located near Gradowo, Poland. Here's the Kartenmeister link http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=30227 . Where would I look for records for this town? Marcelproust just kindly tranlslated a marriage record for Kazimierz Janiak and Marianna or Martianna Lipinska and it states that she was from here, "Marianna Lipińska, a miss, daughter of spouses: Michał Lipiński and the late Katarzyna lipińska, who lived in Chrosno, 19 years old, born in Chrosno, living in Gradowo and working as a servant".

Any guidance would be great!

Thank you!


Hi Nick,
I think you need to look for RC records from Parafja Strzelno, since the Kartenmeister entry you provided shows the catholic records in Koscieszki don't begin until 1905. The FamilySearch website lists records for the church books for Strzelno (German: Strelno) for the years 1810 to 1967, as well as records from the COPY of the church books for the years 1821 to 1874. You didn't specify what years you need for your Marianna.
Just go to the FamilySearch website, use their search function for "catalog" and look for "Strelno" and you'll get to these records. As ever, some of it can be viewed from home and some must be viewed at a Family History Center. Did you get a chance to go yet? Just curious how that went for you.
Best,
Sophia
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nick3371



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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 6:28 am      Post subject:
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Thank you Sophia!

Yes, I had the chance to go to a public library with access to some family search records (family search affiliate library) but I didn’t realize that they have different access than real Familysearch libraries. I was able to find Teofila’s parents marriage record and a few other older records! It was very difficult to look through the books since many many years are put into one catalog entry and there isn’t an obvious organization to the records. I found myself scrolling through the thousands of pages of scans looking for the correct year or index. It was difficult but I think I will be able to find more records with patience. The record for teofilas birth was only available at a real family search library, so I’ll have to go there when they open up again post COVID. BUT I just got an email back from the church archives of Wloclawek with Teofila’s baptismal record and her marriage record to Wojciech Janiak! Things are slowly coming together! Thanks for your help!

Nick
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Sophia
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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 7:29 am      Post subject:
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nick3371 wrote:
Thank you Sophia!

Yes, I had the chance to go to a public library with access to some family search records (family search affiliate library) but I didn’t realize that they have different access than real Familysearch libraries. I was able to find Teofila’s parents marriage record and a few other older records! It was very difficult to look through the books since many many years are put into one catalog entry and there isn’t an obvious organization to the records. I found myself scrolling through the thousands of pages of scans looking for the correct year or index. It was difficult but I think I will be able to find more records with patience. The record for teofilas birth was only available at a real family search library, so I’ll have to go there when they open up again post COVID. BUT I just got an email back from the church archives of Wloclawek with Teofila’s baptismal record and her marriage record to Wojciech Janiak! Things are slowly coming together! Thanks for your help!

Nick


Hi Nick,
Very interesting that you cannot access everything at an affiliate library that you can access at a Family History Center. I did not know that!
If you don't already have it, I think you may want to add one more tool to your toolbox, Meyer's Gazetteer.
https://www.meyersgaz.org/
If you search for Chrosno, for example, when the "search results" come up you will see Chrosno in blue; click on that. It gives you some info about the place - - but then click on the tab labelled "ecclesiastical" and it will show you, by distance from Chrosno, various places where churches are located. What it does not tell you is what years those churches were active, but it is a great way to see the closest location of churches to your town of interest. From this, you can see that Strelno, where I am suggesting you search, is not actually the closest RC church to Chrosno. You may wish to take the names of the other places, and feed them back into Kartenmeister to see when those churches were active.... if you follow my logic.
Best of luck,
Sophia
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nick3371



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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 8:06 am      Post subject:
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Thank you Sophia! This will also be useful in some other records that I'm searching for!

Best,

Nick
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dnowicki
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 1:06 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
nick3371 wrote:
Thank you Sophia!

Yes, I had the chance to go to a public library with access to some family search records (family search affiliate library) but I didn’t realize that they have different access than real Familysearch libraries. I was able to find Teofila’s parents marriage record and a few other older records! It was very difficult to look through the books since many many years are put into one catalog entry and there isn’t an obvious organization to the records. I found myself scrolling through the thousands of pages of scans looking for the correct year or index. It was difficult but I think I will be able to find more records with patience. The record for teofilas birth was only available at a real family search library, so I’ll have to go there when they open up again post COVID. BUT I just got an email back from the church archives of Wloclawek with Teofila’s baptismal record and her marriage record to Wojciech Janiak! Things are slowly coming together! Thanks for your help!

Nick


Hi Nick,
Very interesting that you cannot access everything at an affiliate library that you can access at a Family History Center. I did not know that!
If you don't already have it, I think you may want to add one more tool to your toolbox, Meyer's Gazetteer.
https://www.meyersgaz.org/
If you search for Chrosno, for example, when the "search results" come up you will see Chrosno in blue; click on that. It gives you some info about the place - - but then click on the tab labelled "ecclesiastical" and it will show you, by distance from Chrosno, various places where churches are located. What it does not tell you is what years those churches were active, but it is a great way to see the closest location of churches to your town of interest. From this, you can see that Strelno, where I am suggesting you search, is not actually the closest RC church to Chrosno. You may wish to take the names of the other places, and feed them back into Kartenmeister to see when those churches were active.... if you follow my logic.
Best of luck,
Sophia


Hi Sophia & Nick,

Looking for records in a parish other than Kościeszki is unlikely to produce results. Since the village was part of that parish and the parish has operated continuously since its foundation the birth & baptism would have been recorded there and not in a parish farther afield. The parish was founded in 1271 and the current parish church was erected in 1766 http://www.archidiecezja.pl/parafie/dekanaty/dekanat_kruszwicki/koscieszki_par._pw._sw._anny.html & https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=3651
The date of 1905 does not mean that the parish first began keeping records in that year. Rather, it indicates that 1905 is the year when records from the parish are first available in civil archives. The books housed in the parish itself begin with 1945. Unless 19th Century records were destroyed or lost they most like would be in the archives of the Archdiocese of Gniezno http://www.archidiecezja.pl/instytucje/archiwum_ag.html However, the chances that they are found there are slim since Family Search filmed records for the parish at that archive in 2002 and the films only cover the years 1945-1952 but it would probably be worthwhile contacting the archive to see if earlier records are housed there. During WWII records from some parishes in that region were removed to Germany and it is always possible that the records you need are in some archive in Germany. Bottom line is the haystack seems large and the needle very small. Perhaps the moon is not in the Seventh House and Jupiter is not aligned with Mars and it is not the dawning of the Age of Aquarius after all.

Dave
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nick3371



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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 3:44 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you Dave for that information. Ill contact that archive and see what they say. Yes the chances seem slim to find a record since I don't have much to go off of. I'm hitting a few dead ends in my research (my direct lineage)-I may have gotten as far back as possible but in some cases I'm unsure if I'm looking in the right place. I'll summarize my findings and post here again soon to see if you have any advice or if I've reached my limit. Thank you for your help!

Nick
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