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Louie



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:00 am      Post subject: Latin, Poilsh, German and Theological help needed
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The document is a Baptism Certificate from Diocese of Silesian Opole Parish

Sw: Holy Roman Catholic Parish (Sw. here meaning HOLY?)
Sw. Saint James Apostle (Sw. here meaning SAINT ?) (AP. Apostle?)
Mechnice (Town) Cl.? ____?____ nr 11 (?)
47-214 Poborszow (Post office / street address ?)
Concorda cum libro bapitzatorum (all the information supplied above) agree (matches) with the book of baptisms


Translation:
Agnes Philippczek’s baptism appears in Book 35 in the year 1872. Parents are: August and Clara (Banert) Philippczyk. Both are Catholic. Agnes was born April 12, 1872 and baptized 14th of April, 1872 in Mechnitz. The baptism certificate is dated Feb 12, 1907. It has the seal of the Roman Catholic Parish St. James (located) in Mechnica. It is signed by the pastor ____?_____ Latin annotation: I thought Genitive singular. 3rd declension. Rethinking, I realized it was an ablative absolute: adverstatio nullo literally “no harm” meaning “no impediment”. I asked theologically was this a normal phrase one might find in an annotation or is this something special? What could be an impediment in the late 19th century?



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marcelproust
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am      Post subject: Re: Latin, Poilsh, German and Theological help needed
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Louie wrote:
The document is a Baptism Certificate from Diocese of Silesian Opole Parish

Sw: Holy Roman Catholic Parish (Sw. here meaning HOLY?)
Sw. Saint James Apostle (Sw. here meaning SAINT ?) (AP. Apostle?)
Mechnice (Town) Cl.? ____?____ nr 11 (?)
47-214 Poborszow (Post office / street address ?)
Concorda cum libro bapitzatorum (all the information supplied above) agree (matches) with the book of baptisms


Translation:
Agnes Philippczek’s baptism appears in Book 35 in the year 1872. Parents are: August and Clara (Banert) Philippczyk. Both are Catholic. Agnes was born April 12, 1872 and baptized 14th of April, 1872 in Mechnitz. The baptism certificate is dated Feb 12, 1907. It has the seal of the Roman Catholic Parish St. James (located) in Mechnica. It is signed by the pastor ____?_____ Latin annotation: I thought Genitive singular. 3rd declension. Rethinking, I realized it was an ablative absolute: adverstatio nullo literally “no harm” meaning “no impediment”. I asked theologically was this a normal phrase one might find in an annotation or is this something special? What could be an impediment in the late 19th century?


Opole diocese
Parish church of

Saint:...........
In...............

Rubber stamp: Romancatholic parish of Saint James Apostole
Mechnica, Młyńska 11 street
47-214 Poborszów


BAPTISM CERTIFIATE

1. The year and number of the baptism book: 1872, 35
2. Given name and surname: Philippczyk Agnes
3. Father's name: August, religion: romancatholic
4. Mother's name: Clara, nee Banert, religion: romancatholic
5. Date and place of birth: Mechnitz, April 12th 1872
6. Date and place of baptism: Mechnitz, April 14th 1872
7. Notes in the book of baptisms: adnotatio nullo*


*A copy of the baptism certificate should always be issued with an information placed on the margin of the original document (such as marriage, death or other), or if it is missing, clearly indicate: "no annotation of marriage", and if the document is to be used outside Poland, it is worth to write the the Latin sentence: "de matrimonio nulla annotatio"


Mechnica, on February 17th 1957

Round seal: romancatholic parish church in Mechnica

I certify compliance with the baptism book: signature of the parish-priest.

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]


Last edited by marcelproust on Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:48 am      Post subject:
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Hi Louie and Marcel,
Are you seeing that as St. James? I see it as Sw. Jakub.
Best regards,
Sophia
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:51 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Louie and Marcel,
Are you seeing that as St. James? I see it as Sw. Jakub.
Best regards,
Sophia


Święty Jakub Apostoł - in english: Saint James Apostole

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please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:54 am      Post subject:
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marcelproust wrote:
Sophia wrote:
Hi Louie and Marcel,
Are you seeing that as St. James? I see it as Sw. Jakub.
Best regards,
Sophia


Święty Jakub Apostoł - in english: Saint James Apostole


Interesting, thanks Marcel!
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:30 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin, Poilsh, German and Theological help needed
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Louie wrote:
The document is a Baptism Certificate from Diocese of Silesian Opole Parish
I thought Genitive singular. 3rd declension. Rethinking, I realized it was an ablative absolute: adverstatio nullo literally “no harm” meaning “no impediment”. I asked theologically was this a normal phrase one might find in an annotation or is this something special? What could be an impediment in the late 19th century?


Hi Louie, Marcel, & Sophia,

There are no Ablative Absolutes in the certificate. In fact, the words adnotatio nulla are in the Nominative rather than the Ablative Case. Ablative Absolutes appear in many Latin marriage records and I often refer to the Ablative Absolute when explaining a translation. Now seems to be a good time for a bit of Latin 101. Latin has 5 Declensions. Those most frequently found in Baptism, Marriage, & Death records are the First, Second , and Third Declensions. A very few nouns of the Fourth and the Fifth Declensions also do appear, most notably consensus, consensus, m. consent (4th Decl.) and dies, diei m. or f., day (5th Decl.) As in these two examples, Latin dictionaries list nouns in their Nominative and Genitive Singular with their gender. The Genitive Singular is very important for two major reasons—it identifies the Declension to which a noun belongs and it is by dropping the Genitive Singular ending that we obtain the stem of the noun to which the remaining case endings are added. The Genitive Singular of each Declension is as follows: 1st: ae, 2nd: i, 3rd: is, 4th: us (for masculine nouns) & u (for neuter nouns), 5th: ei.

LATIN CASES & THEIR USES

Latin Cases English Use
Nominative Subject
Genitive Possession
Dative Indirect Object
Accusative Direct Object, Object of Prepositions, etc.
Vocative Direct Address
Ablative* Multiple uses

WHAT IS AN ABLATIVE ABSOLUTE?
The Ablative Absolute in its most common form consists of a noun or pronoun limited by a participle. E.G. hoc dicto “this having been said” (a pronoun & a participle); nullo impedimento detecto “no impediment having been detected” (a noun modified by an adjective & a participle).

In “adnotatio nulla” “no notation” we have a simple statement in the Nominative or subject Case. There are various types of notations which could have appeared in the Register and thus also in the Certificate. Here are two examples: “Confirmata in eccl. hac 5.5.1888” (Confirmed in this church on 5 May, 1888)
matr. contraxit cum Josepho Biedny in Lublin die 3 Junii 1895 (she entered into marriage with Józef Biedny in Lublin on 3 June, 1895)
Notations became important beginning with the final quarter of the 19th Century as mobility increased. Prior to than time the banns were sufficient to bring to light any impediment to a marriage. With greater mobility the number of individuals who, for example, wanted to get out of an unhappy marriage increased. Move to a new hood and who can rat you out if you wanted to marry someone else? Your friendly notation in your baptismal certificate, of course. Busted...No happy second chance for marital bliss while your spouse lived. This certainly occurred when men emigrated and “forgot” to send for the wife and kids back home.

Now for the final bonus question...”What could be an impediment in the late 19th Century? Short answer...the same things which are impediments to marriage today. Some examples...Age (not of legal marriageable age), consanguinity in prohibited degrees, still being married to another person, affinity (related by law in certain degrees); being in major orders (subdeacon, deacon, priest, bishop), perpetual religious vows (nuns), disparity of cult (marriage between a Catholic and an unbaptized person), abduction with the purpose of forcing the person into marriage, Crimen (the parties agreeing to murder a spouse of one or both parties in order for the murderers to marry), adoption… Some impediments can be dispensed (like an former nun can receive a dispensation from her religious vows) and others cannot (like age or a very close degree of consanguinity...one can get a dispensation to marry a cousin related in a lesser degree but no dispensation for a man to marry his sister).

I hope you all find this somewhat informative and perhaps even entertaining when contemplating some of the impediments.

Dave



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Louie



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Post Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:30 am      Post subject: Mea culpa
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Marcel, Sophia, and David,
I wrote a rather long and witty response but I lost it when I tried to preview it and was not logged on.

Thank you so much for your knowledge and guidance,
I hope to keep you all busy this year.

Anyone want to try the signature of the priest?
Stay safe,
louie
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:52 am      Post subject: Re: Mea culpa
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Louie wrote:
Marcel, Sophia, and David,
I wrote a rather long and witty response but I lost it when I tried to preview it and was not logged on.

Thank you so much for your knowledge and guidance,
I hope to keep you all busy this year.

Anyone want to try the signature of the priest?
Stay safe,
louie


Priest Antoni Kuroczyk.

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:54 am      Post subject: Re: Mea culpa
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Louie wrote:
Marcel, Sophia, and David,
I wrote a rather long and witty response but I lost it when I tried to preview it and was not logged on.

Thank you so much for your knowledge and guidance,
I hope to keep you all busy this year.

Anyone want to try the signature of the priest?
Stay safe,
louie


Hi Louie,
I thought I might be able to solve the riddle of the priest's signature by looking at the website for the church, specifically their page about the history of the parish:
http://parafia.mechnica.pl/mechnica/historia-kosciola/
The signature on the document you have is from 1957. It would appear that Antoni Kuroczek was the priest at that time. Now, if this signature says "Antoni Kuroczek," I really cannot say. It is rather scribbled, is it not?
I would think you might have more interest in the priest who actually did the baptism. Looking again at the church's history, they mention the burial of Father Scholz in 1870 and the burial of Father Potyka in 1881. Since the baptism was in 1872, I would suggest that Father Potyka might be your guy.
Best regards,
Sophia
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