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CrazySlav



Joined: 22 Mar 2022
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:49 pm      Post subject: Wladyslaw Wesolowski
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Interested in any information about this gentleman (my great grandfather). He was born either October 11, 1876 or December 22, 1876. He emigrated to the United States (Cleveland, where he had a brother Szymon) September 30, 1898. His nationality and country of origin is listed as Russian, but Poland was a part of the Russian Empire at that time. I am under the impression he was born in Poland, but he could have easily been from Belarus or Ukraine, as well, but I know he definitely spoke Polish in addition to Russian.
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:41 pm      Post subject:
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Hello,

Welcome to the forum.

You may already have this- attached is his passenger list. This indicates he was single, traveling to his brother, Simon, in Cleveland OH. Indicates he is Russian Polish from the village of Rusinowo (from what I can decipher).

Perhaps other forum members can take a look and offer more information.

Best,
Cynthia



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CrazySlav



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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:23 pm      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Hello,

Welcome to the forum.

You may already have this- attached is his passenger list. This indicates he was single, traveling to his brother, Simon, in Cleveland OH. Indicates he is Russian Polish from the village of Rusinowo (from what I can decipher).

Perhaps other forum members can take a look and offer more information.

Best,
Cynthia


Thank you Cynthia. I do have that. I have a few other things. Each of them show a different birthplace. Cities I cannot find on a map. Knedden. Rusinowo. Etc. I’d like to find out for sure if possible. Cuz the trail stops with that ship manifest and his immigration documents that only say “Russia” for citizenship.
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:04 pm      Post subject:
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There is another possible angle. Their marriage record indicates they were married by Rev. Victor Szyrocki on March 3, 1903 in Cuyahoga County, Ohio. It is likely they were married in a Polish Catholic Church.

You might be able to track down the church in which they married. You can then contact the church and request a copy of their marriage record or at least a verbatim readout of the key information. Often, the Polish church records included the village of baptism and name of parents.

Cynthia
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:09 pm      Post subject:
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Just found this old phone directory with entry for Rev Victor Syrocki of Sacred Heart of Jesus Church.
See attached.



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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:12 pm      Post subject:
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Here is more info on the church.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus_Church_(Cleveland,_Ohio)
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CrazySlav



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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:22 pm      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Here is more info on the church.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus_Church_(Cleveland,_Ohio)


It no longer exists. Crying or Very sad
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:26 pm      Post subject:
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Have you tried contacting the diocese of Cleveland? They would maintain the archive of records.
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:29 pm      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Have you tried contacting the diocese of Cleveland? They would maintain the archive of records.


Hi Crazy Slaw & Cynthia,

Sacramental records for closed parishes of the Diocese of Cleveland are held in the Diocesan Archives. Here is the link: www.dioceseofcleveland.org/offices/chancellor/archives/sacramental-records

Of the villages named Rusinowo one fits the bill of being in the Russian Partition. It is in woj. Kujawsko-Pomorskie and was part of the parish of Rypin. Here is the link to the B & B record of Szymon: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-Y981-9?cat=234302 . He was born in Rusinowo. Of course, no surprise, dates don’t agree with data from this side of the pond (which are all over the place). His parents were Franciszek Wesołowski & Maryanna Kozłowska. Here is alink to his death certificate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9574-G4D?i=841&cc=1307272&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AXZP1-YDH In the certificate his father is named as Frank (Franciszek)—another bit of circumstantial evidence.

Here is a link to the B & B of Władysław: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-Y985-Z?cat=234302https://. Of course, again, dates don’t agree. He was baptized on Dec, 1, 1872, born in Rusinowo with the same parents as Szymon.

It is no surprise that Władysław’s age on the manifest does not agree with the B & B record. Young men from the Russian Partition who were of the age ripe for conscription into the Czar’s army got out of Dodge by providing incorrect info to confuse the bad guys and protect those who were not wild about being conscripted.

I would recommend contacting the archives for the marriage record since, as Cynthia wrote, it should contain the names of the parents of the bride and the groom.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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CrazySlav



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:45 am      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Have you tried contacting the diocese of Cleveland? They would maintain the archive of records.


I contacted them on their site last night. Hopefully that leads to some useful information.
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CrazySlav



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:51 am      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
mcdonald0517 wrote:
Have you tried contacting the diocese of Cleveland? They would maintain the archive of records.


Hi Crazy Slaw & Cynthia,

Sacramental records for closed parishes of the Diocese of Cleveland are held in the Diocesan Archives. Here is the link: www.dioceseofcleveland.org/offices/chancellor/archives/sacramental-records

Of the villages named Rusinowo one fits the bill of being in the Russian Partition. It is in woj. Kujawsko-Pomorskie and was part of the parish of Rypin. Here is the link to the B & B record of Szymon: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-Y981-9?cat=234302 . He was born in Rusinowo. Of course, no surprise, dates don’t agree with data from this side of the pond (which are all over the place). His parents were Franciszek Wesołowski & Maryanna Kozłowska. Here is alink to his death certificate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9574-G4D?i=841&cc=1307272&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AXZP1-YDH In the certificate his father is named as Frank (Franciszek)—another bit of circumstantial evidence.

Here is a link to the B & B of Władysław: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-Y985-Z?cat=234302https://. Of course, again, dates don’t agree. He was baptized on Dec, 1, 1872, born in Rusinowo with the same parents as Szymon.

It is no surprise that Władysław’s age on the manifest does not agree with the B & B record. Young men from the Russian Partition who were of the age ripe for conscription into the Czar’s army got out of Dodge by providing incorrect info to confuse the bad guys and protect those who were not wild about being conscripted.

I would recommend contacting the archives for the marriage record since, as Cynthia wrote, it should contain the names of the parents of the bride and the groom.

Wishing you success,

Dave


Thank you so much. This is really helpful.
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CrazySlav



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Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:32 am      Post subject:
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I received something today from Catholic Diocese. Just gives name of parents. I guess I can’t get any records from Poland?
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:09 pm      Post subject:
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CrazySlav wrote:
I received something today from Catholic Diocese. Just gives name of parents. I guess I can’t get any records from Poland?


Hi,

If you would post what you received from the diocesan archives I should be able to help you to understand how it can help direct your research in Poland.

Dave
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CrazySlav



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Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:20 pm      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
CrazySlav wrote:
I received something today from Catholic Diocese. Just gives name of parents. I guess I can’t get any records from Poland?


Hi,

If you would post what you received from the diocesan archives I should be able to help you to understand how it can help direct your research in Poland.

Dave

Certainly

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:04 pm      Post subject:
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CrazySlav wrote:
dnowicki wrote:
CrazySlav wrote:
I received something today from Catholic Diocese. Just gives name of parents. I guess I can’t get any records from Poland?


Hi,

If you would post what you received from the diocesan archives I should be able to help you to understand how it can help direct your research in Poland.

Dave

Certainly

[/img]


Hi,

It would have been more helpful had his mother’s maiden name been entered as Cecilia’s mother’s maiden name been recorded. However, his father’s given name is entered as Franciszek (Francis/Frank) and his mother’s as Maria. The convention in Poland during the 19th Century was that Maryanna was used in place of Maria for women named Mary. This all had to do with reserving Maria for the BVM. The record confirms the names of his parents and taken with the other evidence—especially the name of the village where he was born (Rusinowo) makes it 99% certain that the two birth records in the links I sent are of Władysław and his brother Szymon, The entry in the locus nativitatis/place of birth column is Polonia/Poland which was the name used for Russian Poland aka the Kingdom of Poland/Królestwo Polskie. (The Austrian Partition was known as Galicia and the German Partition was usually called either Posen or the Province of Posen.) The use of Polonia eliminates your earlier speculation about his having been from Belarus, which was not part of the Kingdom of Poland, or Ukraine, which was under Austrian control and was part of Galicia. As far as his being able to speak Russian...he most likely had to learn Russian in school, if he had a formal education. The teaching of Russian (as well as its use in official docs) was part of the Russification program imposed on the Kingdom of Poland/the Russian Partition as a reaction/punishment for the failed 1864 uprising. With his family and friends he would have spoken Polish rather than Russian. Note that his birth record (1872) is in Russian, whereas Szymon’s (1866) is in Polish. The mandatory shift from Polish to Russian took place in 1868.

You should be able to continue your research in Poland with confidence about the names of his parents. When looking for their marriage record it is important to remember that marriages took place in the parish of the bride, which may or may not have been Rypin. Also, there is no guarantee that the couple resided in Rusinowo beyond the 1868-1872 time frame. Peasant farmers moved from village to village in search of employment, but that is another topic for another time.

Wishing you successful research,

Dave
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