Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - From Mochowo to Bieżuń?

Author

Message

Meredith

Joined: 11 Mar 2017
Replies: 22

Back to top

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: From Mochowo to Bieżuń?

This query is about how far my ancestors might have traveled...

My Pęszyński/Peściński family first appear in Bieżuń, Mazowieckie in the 1803 marriage of Maciej “Peszenski” and Marianna Rochowicz; I know Marianna was born in Bieżuń, but it isn’t clear where Maciej is from (attaching marriage record).

I have not found any earlier Pęszyński/Peściński in any Bieżuń records; I searched from about 1758 to the marriage in 1803. I have also searched the nearby parishes of Lutocin and Chamsk. Using the wonderful Geneteka database, I have found a large number of Pęszyński families in Mochowo, in Sierpc county (this is about 24 miles from Bieżuń). I have even found a birth record for a Maciej Kazimierz Pęszyński born 1769; “my” Maciej Pęszyński/Peściński’s birth year is estimated (from his death record in 1843) to be 1772. In no record, marriage or death, are his parents mentioned.

Maciej Kazimierz Pęszyński (born Mochowo 1769) does NOT marry in Mochowo and does NOT die in Mochowo (based on the records I have searched); this knowledge could lead me to believe he left Mochowo -- to go to Biezun???

Here is the research problem: How can I – or can I – determine whether this is Mochowo Maciej is also the Bieżuń Maciej? There are no Mochowo records online for the timeframe 1760-1810 that I can find; the Geneteka information is from the Mochowo index, not actual records. I have checked later Mochowo records for Peszynski marriages and baptisms, to see if Maciej was listed as a witness or godfather -- no. I have checked Biezun records, especially the baptisms of Maciej Pęszyński's children; no references to Mochowo or any other Pęszyński relatives.

Can I make the "leap" that the Mochowo Maciej Pęszyński is the same as the Biezun Maciej Pęszyński ? I am not sure I have enough evidence...

Thank you so very much for any suggestions or insight. I do appreciate it Smile

Maciej Pescinski 1843 Death Record.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

1.13 MB

Viewed:

12515 Time(s)

Maciej Pescinski and Marianna Rochowicz 1803 Marriage.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

648.92 KB

Viewed:

12515 Time(s)

Maciej Pescinski and Marianna Rochowicz 1803 Marriage.JPG

_________________
Meredith Loncaric

dnowicki
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2956
Location: Michigan City, Indiana
Back to top

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: From Mochowo to Bieżuń?

Meredith wrote:

Hi Meredith,

A distance of 24 miles/c.39 km would certainly not be an excessive distance for someone to have moved c. 1800. In about 1780 one of my ancestors traveled from Pomorzany (West of Rypin), where he was born, to Chodecz, where his children were born and where he died---a distance of about 62 miles/c.100 km. That migration is well documented and so the migration you are talking about would be within the realms of possibility. I would suggest that you write out your evidence and reasoning. Sometimes when one writes a “proof” it becomes easier to decide whether the leap is monumental or just a hop, skip, and a jump.

Regarding available records…records from Mochowo and from Biezun which are not online exist in archives. Attached are listings of records held for both locations. Some of the Mochowo records (the civil transcripts) are held in the Polish National Archives. Those are most likely published online. Others are housed in the Archives of the Diocese of Plock and those are most likely accessible at the archive or possibly on LDS films. The death records for the year of Antoni’s death are listed as being held in the Polish National Archives. My suggestion would be to inquire by email to determine whether those records only are the indexes (the scan of which is available online) or whether the actual complete acts are held there. That info would certainly help to determine whether it is worthwhile to pursue his death record for clues regarding the death of his mother. Another possible explanation for where her death was recorded could be that she may have lived with one of her children who did not reside in Bieżuń. If any of her children emigrated after the death of her husband it could be possible that she also emigrated. One of my g.g.grandmothers immigrated to the USA with her youngest child, her daughter, and her son-in-law and grandchildren in 1890 when she was 78 years of age. (Her 5 adult sons had immigrated beginning in 1870 with the last coming to America in 1888.) Anything is possible, even if it does not seem probable.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

Mochowo.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

104.32 KB

Viewed:

12515 Time(s)

pradziad.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

54.61 KB

Viewed:

12515 Time(s)

Biezun.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

109.09 KB

Viewed:

12515 Time(s)

marcelproust
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4776
Location: Poland
Back to top

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: From Mochowo to Bieżuń?

Meredith wrote:

the surname Peściński is totally different to Pęszyński. So i dont think it is the right track. There are a lot of people in the Sierpc area with sililiar surname. I know a lot of Penszynski, Peńszyński, Pęszyński but Peściński is a different surname.
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]

Meredith

Joined: 11 Mar 2017
Replies: 22

Back to top

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject:

Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your experience and your advice! I have already done what you suggested -- written out my "hypothesis" concerning Maciej's possible travel from Mochowo to Bieżuń and all supporting evidence. Two other (small) pieces that might help confirm the theory: I found an early 1810s marriage in Lutocin (parish right next to Biezun) for a Pęszyński from Mochowo; no direct links to Maciej, but it does show that migration from Mochowo to the area was certainly occurring -- and from the Pęszyński family. And second piece: I have a distant cousin in Biezun who has done a lot of family research; she has not found the origins of the Pęszyński family and suspects they came from out of the area. Just confirms that if someone who has on-the-ground access, so to speak, to records and she cannot find Maciej in the area prior to 1803, it lends credence to the theory that he was from further away.

Forward almost 100 years to Marianna Abramska Pęszyńska: yes, I've considered that, after her husband's death, she moved in with a daughter (or son). The children I have for her, however, all stayed in Biezun, so, logically, she would show up in those records. I don't know of any that immigrated, but that is worth a look; she would be approaching 80 years old, so it seems less likely, but, I suppose, possible.

Another thought is that I am misreading her husband's death record; in other words, she had passed away prior to his death. I am attaching his 1884 death record, just in case. I am pretty sure the language is something like he leaves behind his widow Marianna Pęszyńska...though I am sadly inexpert in the Russian. I have already done some checking for her death PRIOR to 1884 and nothing has come up.

I know Marianna's parents, I know her baptism date, I know her siblings, I know her marriage date, I know her children...I know there will probably not be much to be gleaned from her death record. The same for Anna Justyna Skoniecka Kosin. But I somehow cannot leave their stories open-ended, with no finality. How can their deaths be unrecorded? (And I hear myself answer, But there are many whose deaths go unrecorded...)

Well, I very much appreciate the metrics info you passed along; that is helpful! I did check GenBaza for Antoni's 1900 death record and all they have is index material. I do believe 1900 only survives as index...

Thank you so very much; it is great for me to discuss these questions with someone else Smile

Meredith

Pawel Pescinski Death Record 1884 - Copy.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

361.85 KB

Viewed:

12515 Time(s)

Pawel Pescinski Death Record 1884 - Copy.jpg

_________________
Meredith Loncaric

Meredith

Joined: 11 Mar 2017
Replies: 22

Back to top

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject:

Hi Karol,

I am just seeing your response...Yes, that is true. However, the name had several different spellings throughout the records; in other words, through the years, the spelling changed.

For example, in 1803 in his marriage, he is "Peszezenski" -- in 1843, at his death, he is "Pescinski". In between, the surname changes (but it is still the same family); for example, in 1813, it is "Pesczynski". These are not all the same surname, but they are all the same person!

Are the names still too different? I do not know.
_________________
Meredith Loncaric

Meredith

Joined: 11 Mar 2017
Replies: 22

Back to top

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject:

Dave, Just a note: I FOUND Marianna Abramska Pescinska...in Chicago! It was your mention of a great great grandmother who immigrated at the age of 78 that shifted my research direction.

And, indeed, Marianna "Peschintzska" immigrated to Chicago in June 1886 (2 years after her husband's death), with her son and some other family members.

Could not believe it! She was, at that time, 80 years old (she reported her age as 60 on the manifest). Long story short -- in which I discover a fair number of Chicago, Milwaukee and Minnesota family members I had no idea existed -- Marianna, my 4x great grandmother, died in June 1888 in Chicago; I found her death record.

She is probably at St. Adalbert's, in Niles, IL, but they do not have burial records prior to 1910 or so.

Anyway, through your own story and experience, you helped guide my discovery: thank you!

Meredith
_________________
Meredith Loncaric

dnowicki
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2956
Location: Michigan City, Indiana
Back to top

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:25 pm Post subject:

Meredith wrote:

Hi Meredith,

Congrats on the long shot working out.

St. Adalbert's was the only Polish Catholic Cemetery in Chicago until Holy Cross in Calumet City opened in 1892. If she and her son's family were living on the North Side or a far south as Pilsen Adalbert's is the most likely place where she was buried. Burials of Poles who lived farther south, like my relatives who lived in South Chicago, generally took place in one of the non-Polish Catholic Cemeteries but for those who lived within a reasonable distance of Niles Adalbert's was the place of choice. A possible way to verify the cemetery would be to check the non-indexed Catholic parish burial records online at Family Search. Often the cemetery was named in the register.

There was an interesting early history of St. Adalbert's Cemetery in the PGSA's quarterly "Rodziny" from a few years back. I just can't remember the year. An interesting tidbit in the article was that in the early days as soon as the funeral procession was sighted the cemetery bells were rung---not so much in honor of the deceased as to give warning to the workers to make sure the water was bailed out of the grave. The water table was high and the cemetery officials really didn't want the family to see their loved one being buried "at sea".

Dave

Meredith

Joined: 11 Mar 2017
Replies: 22

Back to top

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject:

Hi Dave,

On her 1888 death record (Chicago proper), it simply says "the Polish Cemetery" in the Burial space. From all accounts and your own info, it does sound like St. Adalbert's.

I'm searching for those non-indexed Catholic parish burial records (I've collected a few of the indexed ones for relatives at later dates, and of course Mary Peschinska does not pop up as indexed), but am having trouble locating them in the catalog. I'm sure I will find them shortly.

What a story about the church bells as a signal to the gravediggers! I will have to investigate more about the church; I'm in the Polish Genealogy group on Facebook and someone will probably be able to point me to sources. And I will check out the PGSA's site. Most of my research has been in Europe and in Pennsylvania; I don't know much about mid-west resources and am excited to learn.

Take care, Dave, and thanks again,

Meredith
_________________
Meredith Loncaric

peszynska_julia

Joined: 08 Jul 2021
Replies: 1
Location: kuyavia, poland
Back to top

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:50 am Post subject: Re: From Mochowo to Bieżuń?

Hey, my family comes from the areas you mentioned, we still live here and I think I recognize the people you are talking about. You can contact me here: [email protected]

PolishOrigins Forum