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Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1464
Location: Poland

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:02 am      Post subject: DNA and Nicolaus Copernicus grave
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I just received from a friend link to an article entitled: Scientists say Copernicus' remains, grave found link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_poland_copernicus

Another great example of using DNA in genealogy.

The whole article wrote by Monika Scislowska, Associated Press Writer – Thu Nov 20, 9:01 pm ET

---
WARSAW, Poland – Researchers said Thursday they have identified the remains of Nicolaus Copernicus by comparing DNA from a skeleton and hair retrieved from one of the 16th-century astronomer's books. The findings could put an end to centuries of speculation about the exact resting spot of Copernicus, a priest and astronomer whose theories identified the Sun, not the Earth, as the center of the universe.

Polish archaeologist Jerzy Gassowski told a news conference that forensic facial reconstruction of the skull, missing the lower jaw, his team found in 2005 buried in a Roman Catholic Cathedral in Frombork, Poland, bears striking resemblance to existing portraits of Copernicus.

The reconstruction shows a broken nose and other features that resemble a self-portrait of Copernicus, and the skull bears a cut mark above the left eye that corresponds with a scar shown in the painting.

Moreover, the skull belonged to a man aged around 70 — Copernicus's age when he died in 1543.

"In our opinion, our work led us to the discovery of Copernicus's remains but a grain of doubt remained," Gassowski said.

So, in the next stage, Swedish genetics expert Marie Allen analyzed DNA from a vertebrae, a tooth and femur bone and matched and compared it to that taken from two hairs retrieved from a book that the 16th-century Polish astronomer owned, which is kept at a library of Sweden's Uppsala University where Allen works.

"We collected four hairs and two of them are from the same individual as the bones," Allen said.

Gassowski is head of the Archaeology and Anthropology Institute in Pultusk, in central Poland, and Allen works at the Rudbeck Laboratory of the Genetics and Pathology Department of Uppsala University.

Copernicus was known to have been buried in the 14th-century Frombork Cathedral where he served as a canon, but his grave was not marked. The bones found by Gassowski were located under floor tiles near one of the side altars.

Gassowski's team started his search in 2004, on request from regional Catholic bishop, Jacek Jezierski.

"In the two years of work, under extremely difficult conditions — amid thousands of visitors, with earth shifting under the heavy pounding of the organ music — we managed to locate the grave, which was badly damaged," Gassowski said.

Copernicus is believed to have come up with his main idea of the Sun at the center of the universe between 1508 and 1514, and during those years wrote a manuscript commonly known as Commentariolus (Little Commentary).

His final thesis was only published, however, in the year of his death. His ideas challenged the Bible, the church and past theories, and they had important consequences for future thinkers, including Galileo, Descartes and Newton.

---end of article

You can also watch a few pictures of reconstructed face of Copernicus click here: http://portalwiedzy.onet.pl/109896,1,1,0,galeria_media.html
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carolt71



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:12 pm      Post subject:
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Just a quick note to say I got a note from the director of the polish project at family tree DNA stating my mtdna, the mothers side match that of Copernicus! I was so shocked I still can't believe it! Just thought I would let you know he also sent me a research paper to the back it up. Im related on the mother's side. Since my genealogy has been going dry lately, it sure was a delightful surprise! Carol Tamara
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James
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 06 Jul 2007
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Location: WEST VIRGINIA , USA

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:16 am      Post subject: DNA Match
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Wow !!
Carol, that is really neat, that not only did you get a positive match, but one with such historical meaning. Very Happy
DNA searches are new to me , and something I am just starting to investigate.
Can you share some info about what takes place on your part, to get a DNA search ?

Thanks for sharing
James
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carolt71



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Replies: 63

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:03 pm      Post subject: DNA testing
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I had my MT DNA done by family tree DNA. The only problem with testing is it is expensive. They do have sales and if you're interested I would call them and ask them to e-mail you when they have a sale or special. I had initial testing, then second level, then a testing that breaks down the haplo groups are little further. The only thing you really have to do is swab the inside of your mouth. They send you a kit with instructions that are very easy to follow. Upon submitting your sample you let them know if you give them permission to be able to compare matches with other people. To make a long story short-I found I match or people in Germany and in England and only one in Poland. I know I have a great grandmother who is German, however, a rest is a mystery. Any questions don't hesitate to ask! Carol
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Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:36 am      Post subject:
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This had to be so exciting for you, Carol Exclamation

Have you seen Nicolaus Copernicus (or in Polish Mikołaj Kopernik) house in Toruń on picture taken on our common Tour with James a few months ago: http://blog.polishorigins.com/2009/05/20/my-second-visit-to-poland-forefathers-traces-tour-with-james-day-6/ Question

Did you do the same as the lady in this video Smile


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carolt71



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:20 pm      Post subject: DNA
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http://www.familytreedna.com/certificates-and-reports.aspx

HERE IS FAMILY TREE DNA INFO--PERSONALLY I AM IN SHOCK! Copernicus had one sister kATARYNA WHO MARRIED BERTHAL GERTNER. ANYONE KNOW THE NAMES OF THEIR GIRLS? LOVED JAMES PHOTO-THANKS CAROL
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Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Poland

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:32 am      Post subject:
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According ot Polish wikipedia http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodzina_Miko%C5%82aja_Kopernika Katarzyna Kopernik, sister of Mikołaj, was the only who extended Kopernik genealogical lineage marrying Bartłomiej Gertner from Kraków. They had five children: Katarzyna, Krystyna, Regina, Jerzy and Albrecht.

Gertner family lived in the former Koperniks family house. Katarzyna's husband paid a rent for the house to Barbara, Mikołaj's (and Katarzyna's) sister.

Their daughter Katarzyna married Toruń's merchant Andrzej Wachsschlager. Krystyna, like her mother's sister joined an order in Chełmno. But she escaped from there with Kasper Stulpawitz, drummer from Królewiec, who she married later.
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Shellie
PO Top Contributor & Patron


Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Location: Atlanta, GA

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:28 am      Post subject:
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Even though this thread, and the news about discovering the grave of Copernicus was posted in 2008, the story is very interesting, especially Carol's discovery that her DNA results show a family relationship to the famous astronomer!

I love the facial reconstruction that was done with the skull unearthed from his grave - it is very interesting to see Nicholaus Copernicus as a 70-yr old and compare it with portraits of him as a younger man. More information about Copernicus at the Visit Torun website: http://www.visittorun.pl/232,l2.html


Blog entry that mentions the DNA results and also how scientists suggest that Copernicus had blue eyes: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/07/y-chromosome-mtdna-and-eye-color-of.html

The facial reconstruction led to chatter about the resemblance between Copernicus and actor James Cromwell. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=copernicus+Cromwell&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Carol, have you found the names that link your family tree with Copernicus? I would love to see it!



Copernicus reconstruction.jpg
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Photo of Copernicus facial reconstruction from Kronenberg Foundation
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Copernicus reconstruction.jpg



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Portrait in the Old City Town Hall in Toruń
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Dorothy



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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Location: Evanston, Illinois, USA

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:43 pm      Post subject: DNA and Nicholas Copernicus Grave
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Carol,
I had my Mt-DNA test several years ago. It was done by Sorensen Molecular Genealogy; however the profile was sequenced by Gene Tree.
Both of these are now owned by Ancestry. I am contemplating having the results transferred to Ancestry so that I might do some further
testing.

Since this was several years ago and the level of testing was minimal, the results are what are called "deep ancestry," which provided only one match in Poland. I am contemplating having a more complete sequence done to narrow the results.My son is now going to have his Y-DNA tested and because my husband's family is from Lithuania, I do not expect that
"deep ancestry" will show a different haplogroup. We shall see.

My haplogroup is U4, apparently not very common amongst Poles. Through my genealogical research, I now have documentation that my family is connected to the Tarnawa clan. This has been a family story which until a few years ago was merely a joke in the family.

I am in contact with a few people of this family and it seems that the more information I gather the closer I get to the fuller story. Of course, this means that while there may be a noble connection, there are also some shadows that get light shed on them.

I would be interested in hearing from others who may be willing to share about their haplogrouping.

Thank you.
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andersm0



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Replies: 9
Location: British Columbia, Canada

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:50 pm      Post subject: Clan Tarnawa and yDNA
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Dorothy,
My own Polish ancestral roots are linked to Clan Tarnawa. The surname is Galezowski. Polish clans were military brotherhoods rather than related through blood. So you could get many names who used the Tarnawa CoA and only a few would be related. I believe there are over 80 different family names claiming allegiance to Clan Tarnawa. Recent yDNA testing from FTDNA shows our family haplogroup is I1. Strongly prevalent in Scandinavia and all along the northern rim of Europe from Scotland over to Poland. The incidence of the I haplogroup drops off quickly as you go south though I vaguely recall seeing a concentration somewhere in the Balkans.

Marlene
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dancinchantilly



Joined: 25 Jan 2011
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:25 pm      Post subject:
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Dorothy,
Your mtDNA and your son's mtDNA will be the same, since inheritance is through the mother.

Your son's haplogroup of his y-DNA will be inherited from his father since it is associated the male y chromosome, which women do not have.

My full sequence mtDNA was done by Family Tree DNA. It is on file at GenBank, the National Institute of Health and I have also released it for any use in scientific research.

My father's Haplogroup (y-DNA) is R1a1a, most common in eastern Europeans.

Family Tree DNA has some excellent articles on both mtDNA, y-DNA, and access to project (Polish, Haplogroup H, Haplogroup W, Haplogroup Ria, and so on) results that give an excellent overview of where and who some group members are located.

Considering that Europe is relatively small populations have traveled everywhere even in the past thousand years. Fascinating to see where they originated, where they have been, and where they are now.

Carolyn
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dancinchantilly



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Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:32 pm      Post subject:
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I just found this note on Dienekes Anthropology Blog - I think it is a nice overview of population genetics. Carolyn

The geography of recent genetic ancestry across Europe by Peter Ralph, Graham Coop
(Submitted on 16 Jul 2012)

The recent genealogical history of human populations is a complex mosaic formed by individual migration, large-scale population movements, and other demographic events. Population genomics datasets can provide a window into this recent history, as rare traces of recent shared genetic ancestry are detectable due to long segments of shared genomic material. We make use of genomic data for 2,257 Europeans (the POPRES dataset) to conduct one of the first surveys of recent genealogical ancestry over the past three thousand years at a continental scale. We detected 1.9 million shared genomic segments, and used the lengths of these to infer the distribution of shared ancestors across time and geography. We find that a pair of modern Europeans living in neighboring populations share around 10-50 genetic common ancestors from the last 1500 years, and upwards of 500 genetic ancestors from the previous 1000 years. These numbers drop off exponentially with geographic distance, but since genetic ancestry is rare, individuals from opposite ends of Europe are still expected to share millions of common genealogical ancestors over the last 1000 years. There is substantial regional variation in the number of shared genetic ancestors: especially high numbers of common ancestors between many eastern populations likely date to the Slavic and/or Hunnic expansions, while much lower levels of common ancestry in the Italian and Iberian peninsulas may indicate weaker demographic effects of Germanic expansions into these areas and/or more stably structured populations. Recent shared ancestry in modern Europeans is ubiquitous, and clearly shows the impact of both small-scale migration and large historical events. Population genomic datasets have considerable power to uncover recent demographic history, and will allow a much fuller picture of the close genealogical kinship of individuals across the world.
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efc3011



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Replies: 45
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:35 pm      Post subject: DNA testing
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For those of you who might want to "test the waters" with DNA testing, I thought I'd mention that Family Tree DNA is offering a great price for the basic 12 marker Y-DNA test. It is temporarily reduced to $39. I have paid $99 for this test! The Y-DNA test is for males only, and traces the male line directly from father to son down through the ages.

http://www.familytreedna.com/


Elaine
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DsS



Joined: 15 Mar 2015
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:31 am      Post subject:
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Hello.... I am interested to know how does one get on when there are no direct relative on the Male side to have a Y-DNA TEST done??

My problem is, the only folk in my mothers side of the family, alive today is myself, sister, and 1st cousins 1 younger male and 2 younger females. And there children all up 5 in total and 2 grandchildren of mine.
My/our Grandfather was the only son and he only had 2 daughters. It is his Grandmothers line and her husbands line who I am trying to trace. They came from Moravia/Austria and from 'somewhere in Lithuania so far as I know' to NZ in 1874.
The Boyer from somewhere in Lithuania is proving very difficult.... and another Boyer from this site had mentioned I would need to do DNA testing... (?)

There are so many variants to all these DNA Tests I am unable to get my head round it all ...lol... Will I not ever be able to succeed with the Male DNA testing? As I see it, I/we would definitely need a Male with a direct lineage to our original GGG Grandparents for the father to son lineage....
I will be so disappointed to not be able to trace this line ever.... hohummm BUT I need to be put out of my misery on this issue. 'Please'
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DsS



Joined: 15 Mar 2015
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:45 am      Post subject:
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Absolutely intrigued with the Copernicus reconstruction and the DNA tracing ... Amazing!
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