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jharding22



Joined: 04 Nov 2021
Replies: 4

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:03 pm      Post subject: Brick wall with my research. HELP!
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Hi all,

I am trying to trace my roots back as far as I can and I have somehow hit a brick wall.

I have an alien registration card for my 2x Grandfather Josef Konstantynowicz, who was born on 5th March 1882, in Tuczępy, Galijca to Michał K. and Katarzyna (cannot read her surname, Heck? I have a link here https://i.ibb.co/Xx7Y6KF/18-E51-F5-A-A909-43-A0-B283-94-F3178-A71-A8.jpg).

Unfortunately this is my stumbling block as I can find 0 information past this point! I would be grateful for some local help or pointing in the right direction. I have tried searching german variations etc. I am even unsure of the location despite it being named (there is a gmina tuczępy near kielce and one near jaroslaw, I am unsure of which one!).



Thanks, Joe
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:33 am      Post subject: Re: Brick wall with my research. HELP!
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jharding22 wrote:
Hi all,

I am trying to trace my roots back as far as I can and I have somehow hit a brick wall.

I have an alien registration card for my 2x Grandfather Josef Konstantynowicz, who was born on 5th March 1882, in Tuczępy, Galijca to Michał K. and Katarzyna (cannot read her surname, Heck? I have a link here https://i.ibb.co/Xx7Y6KF/18-E51-F5-A-A909-43-A0-B283-94-F3178-A71-A8.jpg).

Unfortunately this is my stumbling block as I can find 0 information past this point! I would be grateful for some local help or pointing in the right direction. I have tried searching german variations etc. I am even unsure of the location despite it being named (there is a gmina tuczępy near kielce and one near jaroslaw, I am unsure of which one!).



Thanks, Joe


Katarzyna's surname was: Buk.

I have checked the romancatholic parish of Tuczępy but there was no birth record for Józef Konstantynowicz.
There were few more places called Tuczępy in different parishes:
Tuczępy in the romancatholic parish of Grabowiec
Tuczępy in the romanctholic parish of Jarosław
Tuczępy in the romancatholic parish of Kamionna
Tuczępy in the romancatholic parish of Nabroż

Maybe Józef was not romancatholic?

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My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

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Last edited by marcelproust on Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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jharding22



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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:48 am      Post subject:
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Hi Marcel, thanks for that, I have never seen the surname Buk before and google does not have much info, do you know if this was a common surname or has it been shortened?

I have no idea about Josef religion, what I do know is he christened his son in a roman catholic church in Liverpool, his name written in latin in this document was Josephi Konstantinowicz and I have seen another latin document written as Josephum. I feel this is as far as my knowledge can stretch, as you also called him Josez, so I would have no idea on what names to actually search!
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:26 am      Post subject:
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jharding22 wrote:
Hi Marcel, thanks for that, I have never seen the surname Buk before and google does not have much info, do you know if this was a common surname or has it been shortened?

I have no idea about Josef religion, what I do know is he christened his son in a roman catholic church in Liverpool, his name written in latin in this document was Josephi Konstantinowicz and I have seen another latin document written as Josephum. I feel this is as far as my knowledge can stretch, as you also called him Josez, so I would have no idea on what names to actually search!


The surname Buk was pretty common. Can You please upload the full image of the document that You sent in Your first post?
Do You have any other documents or letters from which more information can be deduced?

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
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jharding22



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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:50 am      Post subject:
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this is the only original document we have.
https://ibb.co/b2JQMYf

This is from November 1919. I have not been able to find any other docs online in another language (asides from the UK latin baptism ones).
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:03 am      Post subject:
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jharding22 wrote:
this is the only original document we have.
https://ibb.co/b2JQMYf

This is from November 1919. I have not been able to find any other docs online in another language (asides from the UK latin baptism ones).


Does polish consulate in London has its own archives? Maybe they could provide more information?

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:57 am      Post subject:
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jharding22 wrote:
Hi Marcel, thanks for that, I have never seen the surname Buk before and google does not have much info, do you know if this was a common surname or has it been shortened?

I have no idea about Josef religion, what I do know is he christened his son in a roman catholic church in Liverpool, his name written in latin in this document was Josephi Konstantinowicz and I have seen another latin document written as Josephum. I feel this is as far as my knowledge can stretch, as you also called him Josez, so I would have no idea on what names to actually search!


Hi,
I agree with Marcel, the name is Buk. If you'd like to see a distribution of where in Poland people with this surname are living, look here:
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Buk#map
You will see there are just over 600 people with this surname, spread throughout Poland but concentrated in the south and the southeast. If you look beneath the map, you will see a list of individual towns with the number of people from each.
I would like to help you understand a bit about the name Joseph. In English, it is Joseph. In Polish it is Józef. In Latin it is Josephus. There is no Josez (that was a typo), nor is the name Josephi. Keep in mind that in the Polish language, the endings of names will change depending on the grammatical case, so you can see Józef with endings like -i or -a and so on but they are not part of the name. This is why it is really helpful to have someone like Marcel translate a Polish or Russian document for you, or Dave if it is in Latin, so that you can see the name free of its grammatical "baggage."
Marcel, the nazwiska-polskie entry (above) would suggest that the correct Tuczepy is the one near Jaroslaw.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:53 am      Post subject:
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Hi again,
Here is another piece of information that would suggest you might do well to look at Tuczempy near Jaroslaw.
If you go to FamilySearch and look at film 102516730 Szkola Podstawowa w Tuczempach (records from the school in Tuczempy) specifically for the school year 1907-1908 you will see two students with the surname Buk and one with the surname Konstantynowicz. Of course, these are kids born later than your Jozef, and they are not his siblings (since the father's name is given for each student) but the nice detail is that they give the religion to which each child belonged which was Roman Catholic. They might not be related at all, but it is encouraging to see your two surnames in the same place.
Happy hunting,
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:54 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
jharding22 wrote:
Hi Marcel, thanks for that, I have never seen the surname Buk before and google does not have much info, do you know if this was a common surname or has it been shortened?

I have no idea about Josef religion, what I do know is he christened his son in a roman catholic church in Liverpool, his name written in latin in this document was Josephi Konstantinowicz and I have seen another latin document written as Josephum. I feel this is as far as my knowledge can stretch, as you also called him Josez, so I would have no idea on what names to actually search!


Hi,
I agree with Marcel, the name is Buk. If you'd like to see a distribution of where in Poland people with this surname are living, look here:
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Buk#map
You will see there are just over 600 people with this surname, spread throughout Poland but concentrated in the south and the southeast. If you look beneath the map, you will see a list of individual towns with the number of people from each.
I would like to help you understand a bit about the name Joseph. In English, it is Joseph. In Polish it is Józef. In Latin it is Josephus. There is no Josez (that was a typo), nor is the name Josephi. Keep in mind that in the Polish language, the endings of names will change depending on the grammatical case, so you can see Józef with endings like -i or -a and so on but they are not part of the name. This is why it is really helpful to have someone like Marcel translate a Polish or Russian document for you, or Dave if it is in Latin, so that you can see the name free of its grammatical "baggage."
Marcel, the nazwiska-polskie entry (above) would suggest that the correct Tuczepy is the one near Jaroslaw.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia


Hi Joe, Sophia & Marcel,

The document Joe posted narrows down the location of the village. According to the posted doc it was in Galicia and the only place which fits the bill is the one near Jarosław. The one near Kielce was in the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) aka Russian Poland. The village name was spelled two ways (not unusual given the phonetics) as Tuczępy and as Tuczempy. The village belonged to the Roman Catholic parish of Jarosław. There was a Greek Catholic parish in the village itself. The population of the village in the late 19th Century was 1303 (662 Roman [Latin Rite] Catholics and 566 Greek [Eastern Rite] Catholics and 45 Jews). The records for the RC parish and the Greek Catholic parish are housed in the National Archives in Przemyśl. Unfortunately, the records are not online which means contacting the archive directly. Attached is a map of Galicia from 1897 and a screenshot of the RC birth records in the National Archives in Przemyśl.

As an aside, your Joseph was Polish so his name was Józef. The Latin form was only found in official records. You will see it in the Nominative (Subject) Case: Josephus; in the Genitive (Possessive) Case: Josephi; in the Accusative (Direct Object) Case: Josephum; and in the Ablative Case: Josepho. The Dative and the Vocative Cases are not found in records from Galicia. Bottom line is that no matter the form in which the name appears it always refers to the same person.

Wishing you successful research,

Dave



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jharding22



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Post Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:49 pm      Post subject:
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Hi all,

Thanks for the previous help and your efforts. I contacted a Polish genealogist who has started to gather some documents (in return for a fee). In their initial research they claim that the place my grandfather is actually from is Tuczyn, Ukraine.

Do you think that this could be a possibility and it may be worth paying a fee, or will these further documents be of another person sharing the same name.

Thanks, Joe
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