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vmcgovern90



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:12 am      Post subject:
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I am hoping someone can help me translate this marriage record. Unfortunately, the person who sent this to me from the Church is Poland did not capture the entire record with the headings so I apologize if it is hard to work with. I appreciate any help!


1908 - marriage of Jan Kukuła and Brygida Bielas, Leńcze.JPG
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1908 - marriage of Jan Kukuła and Brygida Bielas, Leńcze.JPG


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:08 pm      Post subject:
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starshadow wrote:
Please help me translate these two baptisms from Szczepankowo parish.


Hi Starshadow,

Here are the translations of the two certificates. Some observations will follow after the translations.

Kunegunda

Top of Certificate: Akt #6(?) The original was written without the duty/revenue stamp.
Left: Revenue/Duty Stamp for 15 groszy
Right: Royal stamp of Alexander I “King” of the Congress Kingdom of Poland (Kongresowe Królestwo Polskie)
Latin Intro: To all and sundry of whom it concerns I make known and attest that is found in the Metrical Books of Baptisms (Baptismal Register) of the Church of Szczepankowo that which follows.

Dembowo
In the Year of Our Lord 1790 on the 3rd day of March I, Bazyli Bruliński O(rdo) S(ancti) B(enedicti)/of the Order of St. Benedict*, superior/pastor of Szczepankowo, baptized an infant born yesterday by the name of Kunegunda, the daughter of the legitimate marriage of the industrious** Franciszek and Jadwiga Szostek. The sponsors (were) Wawezyniec Szostek, a single youth, and Małgorzata, the wife of Andrzej.
I copied (the entry) word for word in (testimony) of which I sign below and affix the (parish) seal. Given in Szczepankowo on the 19th day of the month of February in the year 1824

Signature of the priest Mateusz Przedziecki with the parish seal

The next 2 statements in Polish state that Kunegunda Szostek (Szostkowna/daughter of Szostek was illiterate and that the priest Stanisław Podbelski(?), keeper of civil records of the gmina of Szczepankowo, saw and read the certificate.

Notes: Order of St. Benedict: The parish priest was a member of the religious rather than the secular clergy and thus the title of superior (of the religious community).
**laboriosus/ industrious: description of the parents as peasants.


Jan

Top of Certificate: Akt #6(?) The original was written without the duty/revenue stamp. Signature of priest.
Left: Revenue/Duty Stamp for 15 groszy
Right: Royal stamp of Alexander I “King” of the Congress Kingdom of Poland (Kongresowe Królestwo Polskie)

Latin Intro: To all and sundry of whom it concerns I make known and attest that is found in the Metrical Books of Baptisms (Baptismal Register) of the Church of Szczepankowo that which follows.

Usnik
In the Year of Our Lord 1797 on the 21st day of June from the industrious* Józef Woycik, a farmer from Ustnik his wife Franciszka gave birth to a son, whom I, Father** Wawrzyniec Młodzianowski(?), baptized on the 22nd of the same (month & year) and upon whom I placed he name Jan Alojzy***. The sponsors were the upright**** Feliks (can’t read surname), a servant, and Anastazja Kacprzakowna, a maiden (&) a servant from Szczepankowo.
In testimony of which I sign this certificate with my own hand and affix the seal of the parish of Szczepankowo.
Given in the parish residence of Szczepankowo on the 20th day of February in the year 1824.

Signature of the priest Mateusz Przedziecki with the parish seal.

The same statements in Polish as in the previous certificate follow.

Notes: * laboriosus/ industrious: description of the parents as peasants
**pater/father: In Polish priests who are members of a religious order are addressed as Father. Priests who are not religious are addressed as Ksiądz/Priest. In English both types of priests are called Father.
***honestus/upright: usually used to describe a farmer from a small town or village.
****Alojzy: The Feast of St. Aloysius/Alojzy was on June 21, the day of his birth.

You asked who paid the 10 groszy for the birth & baptism certificate for Zuzanna in January of 1822. The person who requested the certificate would have paid the fee. Of course, if the groom wanted to impress his lady love he could very well have given her the 10 groszy for the fee. These two certificates contain info which speaks to the changes which had taken place between 1822 and 1824. During those two years the cost of the duty/revenue stamp had increased to 15 groszy—a rather steep rate of inflation.

I find it interesting that both Kunegunda & Jan were married in the parish where they were baptized and still resided. Drawing up and filing away baptismal certificates for them seems to me to have been busy work mandated by the government. In the USA when a person marries in church in the parish where he or she had been baptized the priest simply looks up the baptismal info in the parish registers and enters the date in the marriage register. He often will add the word “vidi” (“I saw it”) next to the entry in the marriage register.

Here we have muddied waters and blurred distinctions between the secular and the religious rather than the separation we take for granted. The format of the marriage record which you posted basically is a carryover from what Napoleon set up for the Duchy of Warsaw. The format and rules were heavily influenced by the French Revolution and by Napoleon’s attitude to religion in general and to the Catholic Church in particular. The relationship between the State and the Church was conflicted and often hostile. When Russia took control of the part of the Duchy of Warsaw which became the Congress Kingdom of Poland Napoleon’s record keeping format at first remained intact. Later the (in my opinion) excessively wordy Napoleonic style was simplified.

Napoleon originally had intended the keeping of civil records to be separate from church influence. When the reality of illiteracy making it difficult or impossible to find non-clerics to act as civil registrars the system was modified to make parish priests the keepers of civil vital records—thus the muddied waters.

Something which has long bugged me is that the Congress of Vienna set up the Kingdom of Poland with the Tsar as “King” of Poland is that the event took place on May 3, 1815. I don’t know whether that was done deliberately or not but it seems sacrilegious that it took place on May 3rd, a day so important in Polish history.

The details of how they system worked where priests, who primarily are religious functionaries, became officials of the state. Some questions which I have are 1. Did the state pay the priests to act as civil registrars? (My guess is that they were paid since they often hired literate individuals to actually write the records.) 2. How much were they paid and what did they do with that income? 3. Who kept the duty/revenue fee from the certificate? 4. What was the buying power of 15 groszy in 1824? I suppose that the answers to some of these questions would be found in the Russian Imperial Archives, if such records exist.

It is interesting to note that in 1790 Kunegunda’s female sponsor was entered without a surname and was identified only as “the wife of Andrzej”.

More questions than answers….

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:10 pm      Post subject:
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vmcgovern90 wrote:
I am hoping someone can help me translate this marriage record. Unfortunately, the person who sent this to me from the Church is Poland did not capture the entire record with the headings so I apologize if it is hard to work with. I appreciate any help!


Hi,

The exact wording of the headings may or may not be the same as those of your record (The Austrian government made several changes to the wording over time.) but the content of the columns is consistent with these headings.

Wishing you successful research,

Dave

Col. 1: N(ume)rus Serialis = Number in order (for the year): 7
Col. 2: Year (at top): Missing
Dies et Mensis: Day and Month (of marriage): November 24 (1908)
Col. 3: Sponsus = Groom
Col. 3a: N(ume)rus Domus = House Number: 37
Col. 3b: Ejus ac parentum nomen, cognomen atque conditio; item ejus nativitatis locus et habitationis = His and his parents’ first & surname and condition/state of life/occupation; at the same time his place of birth and residence: Jan Kukuła, a widower after the late Julianna (née) Górka, the son of Jan Kukuła and of Salomea Sawicka, bornand residing in Leńcze Górne
Col. 3c: Religio = Religion
Col. 3c Subdivision 1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 3c Subdivision 2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 3d Subdivision 2a: Aetas = 33 &1/2
Col. 3e Subdivision 3a: Caelebs = Bachelor: Blank
Col. 3e Subdivision 3b: Viduus = Widower: Checked
Col. 4: Sponsa = Bride
Col. 4a: Ejus ac parentum nomen, cognomen atque conditio; item ejus nativitatis locus et habitationis = Her and her parents’ first & surname and condition/state of life/occupation; at the same time her place of birth and residence: Brygida Bielas, the daughter of Maryanna Bielas, born and residing in Leńcze Górne
Col. 4b: Religio = Religion
Col. 4b Subdivision 1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b Subdivision 2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 4c Subdivision 2: Aetas = Age: 19 & 1/2
Col. 4d Subdivision 1: Caelebs = Maiden/Bachelorette: Checked
Col. 4d Subdivision 2: Vidua = Widow: Blank
Notation added in different ink gives her date of birth as April 18, 1889
Col. 5: TESTES Eorum = WITNESSES (and) Their
Col. 5a: Nomen et Cognomen et Conditio = First and Surname and
Condition/state of life/occupation: Stanisław Ruczirzeski(?), Michał Wyroba
Final Notation: I blessed this marriage with the consent of the orphans’ court for minors granted at Kalwaria on November 21, 1908 Number I 498/8/2
Signature: Wojciech Kowalowka, pastor

Note: Instantia Pupilaris had jurisdiction over orphans and minors
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vmcgovern90



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:02 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks for the help Dave!! I appreciate it.

Victoria
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Malgroetsema



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:57 am      Post subject: Headers for 1800s Catholic Latin Marriage records
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I have attached a scan I have of a similar marriage record that will at least give you the headings as the records appear to be the same format. If you need help with translating the Latin headers, let me know as I have done that for my family's records.


1888-1890 marriage Kobierzyn.jpg
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The attached file has the headings for a marriage record that appear to be in the same format as the one you are looking to translate. I hope this helps.
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1888-1890 marriage Kobierzyn.jpg



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Mary Ann Latko Groetsema
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:01 pm      Post subject: Re: Headers for 1800s Catholic Latin Marriage records
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Malgroetsema wrote:
I have attached a scan I have of a similar marriage record that will at least give you the headings as the records appear to be the same format. If you need help with translating the Latin headers, let me know as I have done that for my family's records.


Hi,

Thank you for your kind offer but I've translated the record and posted the translation. I have no difficulty translating Latin. (I have a MA in the lingo and taught Latin for more years than I care to think about.) During the years I've been translating Latin records on this forum I've developed templates which include both the Latin headings and their English translation. Offhand I would say that I use seven or eight templates which cover the heading variations of most marriage records from Galicia. I must confess that part of my motivation for preparing the templates was to make my life easier when posting translations by eliminating the need for repetitive typing.

Thanks again for your kind offer.

Dave
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starshadow



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Post Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:15 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you so much Dave. Very enlightening. There's surely more elaboration in the records from this parish than other parishes I've researched from the same time period.

By the way, I've noticed several variations of "Jan" names. From simply Jan, to Jan Baptysta, to Jan Nepomucene, etc. I don't think I've ever seen Jan Alojzy before though. Do you have a list of all the variations of Saint names given to children in Poland? Or would that be too long?
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:31 am      Post subject:
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dave

can you please translate the attached record death of Lawrence Wiri (bottom left)

thanks



Lawrence Wirri death 1765 pg 165 of 209.pdf
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 am      Post subject:
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it is from France, 1765 in Haguenau Bas-Rhin
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:33 pm      Post subject:
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starshadow wrote:
Thank you so much Dave. Very enlightening. There's surely more elaboration in the records from this parish than other parishes I've researched from the same time period.

By the way, I've noticed several variations of "Jan" names. From simply Jan, to Jan Baptysta, to Jan Nepomucene, etc. I don't think I've ever seen Jan Alojzy before though. Do you have a list of all the variations of Saint names given to children in Poland? Or would that be too long?


Hi Starshadow,

What is happening with the name Jan Alojzy is different from what goes on with names like Jan Nepomucyn, Jan Chrzciciel (the Baptist), Jan Ewangelista, Jan Kanty, Jan Boży, etc., etc. In all those and like names the second part of the name is not really a second name but sometimes is a surname and sometime is part of the first name, a part which identifies which of the many individuals named Jan is the one about whom one is speaking/writing. In Jan Alojzy the second name is a separate and distinct name unrelated to the name Jan. It is what we would refer to as a middle name. Apart from szlachta, 18th Century children were usually not given two names at birth. Records from that period often spell it out that the child was given two names when that happened, but that didn’t happen here. This person could very well be the only boy named Jan Alojzy in 18th Century Poland. We can presume that he received the name Jan because that was the name his parents chose for him. The name Alojzy was added in honor of the saint whose feast was on that day. I’ve often wondered in cases like this whether the second name was the choice of the parents or of the priest. Some siblings of my direct ancestors born in the 17th & 18th Centuries were baptized with names recorded like Julianna de Falco. I’ve always felt that spelling out the de Falco part was exclusively the priest’s doing and have always doubted that the parents and later the child were aware of that part. Unfortunately, there is no way to know that sort of info. It could be the same case with your Jan Alojzy. That is how his name appears on the certificate but did he know that since the certificate notes that he was illiterate?

The short answer to the list of names question is that I do not have a list with all the various names. However, one cold and rainy night a few years ago when I couldn’t go out to play I did compile a list of saints names used in Poland. It is certainly not complete and exhaustive but it does contain names I’ve seen in records. I’m not even sure that it would be possible to compile a complete list of the feast days of saints popular in Poland. The main reason for my doubt is that saints’ days have changed in the liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church in general and of the Catholic Church in Poland, especially after the Second Vatican Council’s liturgical reforms. Another factor is that some feast days are observed throughout the Catholic Church whereas others are only observed locally. Back in the days of my youth when I was an altar boy there was a book kept in the sacristy and used by the priests which was known as “The Ordo”. The full title was “The Order of Prayer in the Liturgy of the Hours and the Celebration of the Eucharist”. The priests used the book to determine which saints’ feast days were mandatory and which were optional. That info dictated the text of the Mass to be celebrated and the color of the vestments to be worn. The “Ordo” was specific to a particular place—in my youthful experience that place was the Archdiocese of Chicago. That Ordo was different from the one used in New York or in Poland or in France.

Anyway, I’m attaching the list in PDF format. When I was doing some reading to answer your question I came upon two sites which you may find useful. Since the sites do not list the source of their information I cannot speak to their accuracy. They list names as “Name Days” which do not seem to be connected to the liturgical calendar. For what they are worth, here are the two links: https://www.namedaycalendar.com/poland and https://www.behindthename.com/namedays/country/poland4
The bottom line is that probably there are too many variables for a definitive list, but as long as you allow for that fact, the info may prove helpful.

I hope that you find it informative, interesting, and even entertaining.

Dave



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:35 pm      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
dave

can you please translate the attached record death of Lawrence Wiri (bottom left)

thanks


Hi Andrew,

I hope you had a good camping trip and returned rested and rejuvenated.

Here is the death record translation.

Dave

In the Year of Our Lord 1765 on the first day of the month of June died Lawrence Wiri, a laborer for wages*, at the age of 60, the legitimately surviving husband of Ursula N., after having been rightly fortified with all the Sacraments of the Church, Penance, the Eucharist, and Extreme Unction, and was buried by me, the undersigned vicar of the parish church of Saint Nicholas, on the following day in the cemetery in the presence of Paul Silib(?), a resident, John Michael Shoffel(?), Michael Fleck(?), and Francis Wiri, the son of the deceased. Michael Shoffel(?) and Francis Wiri made their marks; the rest signed themselves.

The signatures of Paul Silib(?), Michael Fleck(?), and Nicholas Jung, the vicar, appear and are followed by the marks of Michael Shoffel(?) and Francis Wiri next to their names.

Note: *mercenarius/one who works for wages sometimes was used for a day laborer. Our word mercenary (one who fights for wages rather than for a cause) comes from the Latin word mercenarius.


Last edited by dnowicki on Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:43 am      Post subject:
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hi dave

it was good to be off for a week, the weather was great and my kids were old enough to have a bit more fun this year than years past

thanks for the translation. how did you know Ursula was alive? I don't know much, but I saw mortuus near Lawrence's name and mortuus near Ursula's name and assumed it was Lawrence's death notice and Ursula was already dead. Glad I asked
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:47 am      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
hi dave

it was good to be off for a week, the weather was great and my kids were old enough to have a bit more fun this year than years past

thanks for the translation. how did you know Ursula was alive? I don't know much, but I saw mortuus near Lawrence's name and mortuus near Ursula's name and assumed it was Lawrence's death notice and Ursula was already dead. Glad I asked


Hi Andrew,

Actually Ursula was deceased but not because the word immediately prior to her name is mortuus (which would be mortua if it referred to her). The word is maritus (husband) and, of course stands in apposition with Lawrence. My error in making her alive was due to sloppy typing and not proofreading the result. That part of the text should read “...the legitimately surviving husband of Ursula...” The entry results in rather clumsy phrasing due to the use of the passive voice rather than the active voice. I edited the translation. My best excuse is the old Latin wise saying “Errare humanum est.”

Dave
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:23 pm      Post subject:
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dave

can you please translate the bottom right hand side baptizing of Susanna Elizabeth Schmitt? 1760 in Pfalz Germany (Kuebelberg) Have a nice weekend!

Thanks.



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Post Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:05 am      Post subject: Latin translation Acta Nobilitae
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Hi!
I want to know the longer pictures text translation of the f91 and f14! thnx!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dPowSVjgs3oBQd_IbRLmx-V_Vrhdk4-0?usp=sharing
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