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Latin records translations
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:07 pm      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
Dave,

Yes I can confirm they are of interest but are not directly related to the other entry. The Lederle's are another grandparent. Theobald Lederle is the child of Michael Lederle and Anna Maria (nee unknown). I saw both names here and thought it could be of importance. The writing is fading so I'm sure it makes it very difficult so I apologize.

I still need to review the first anniversary notes you provided and I very much thank you.

Andrew


Hi Andrew,

Entry #3 describes three bequests/legacies from Anna Maria to the parish church in Berg. The first legacy/bequest was for 75 florins for Masses for the repose of the soul of her late first husband, Michael Lederle, on the anniversaries of his death, which falls in the month of October, with 25 florins being used for each of three anniversaries. (There is some doubt in my mind of the exact date. In the second line a word is added above & before the verb legavit which appears to be ides. The Romans calculated dates in a month in relation to the kalends/calends, nones, and ides. The kalends/calends were the first day of the month; the nones were the 7th day of the months of March, May, July & October and the 5th day in the remaining months; the ides were the 15th day of the months of March, May, July & October and the 13th day in the remaining months. If my interpretation of the added word is correct, the anniversary of his death would be on October 15.) He bequeathed another 75 florins to be divided equally with one half for Jacob Fried, the legitimate son of Michael Fried, and the other half for Theobald Lederle, the stepson of Michael Fried. The entry breaks down the two halves into 37 florins and another currency value abbreviation with which I am not familiar, which appears to be xr. When 75 florins are divided in half it is obvious that each half is 37 florins and change but I have no idea what the change would be. I’m not sure of the number. I clearly read 30 but what appears to be the number 8 is between the abbreviation for florins and the number 30—all mysterious to me. The entry concludes with a statement that the arrangement makes everything equal for the two heirs (i.e. Jacob & Theobald).

I did not give a verbatim translation for this entry, but not for the same reason as for the previous record. There was no excess of flowery verbiage, but it seemed to me that a free summary would better explain the content rather than a literal word for word translation—especially since much of the entry deals with sums of money.

Hope this is helpful.

Dave


Last edited by dnowicki on Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:29 pm      Post subject:
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Dave

This is great information. Thanks for all your hard work I appreciate it.

The Christopher Harder and Anna Maria further confirms what I already knew and also adds a special touch.

The other record, I need to sit down and figure out. I never knew Anna Maria remarried after Michael died. So, more searching for the second marriage because I do not know her maiden name.

Oddly enough, Jacob Fried marries one of Christopher Harder and Anna Maria Heber's daughters so in the end the two records are related family! I guess that happens a lot in the same parish way back in the day.
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:49 pm      Post subject:
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Strange monkey wrench dave. Anna Maria (Michael Fried's wife) passed away in 1759 (I found entry), but this entry on this page appears to be from 1760. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:52 pm      Post subject:
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ugh now I'm thoroughly confused! The 2nd entry on that page and the 4th (you translated the 3rd) all appear to be the same family and names. All 1760
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angelheredia



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:33 pm      Post subject: Translation request
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Hi, im from Argentina, my granfather was polish, I think his birth town is now Ukraine. I have this copy from a baptism testimony, i want to know what data can i extract from here to start looking for the original one.
My appreciation in advance.



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:41 pm      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
ugh now I'm thoroughly confused! The 2nd entry on that page and the 4th (you translated the 3rd) all appear to be the same family and names. All 1760


Andrew,

Your response made me look at the entire page and all four entries are for the same family and grammatically entries 2, 3, & 4 are subordinate purpose clauses which spell out how the legacies/bequests are to be used. You are correct that Anna Maria had died and thus she was not the person making the bequest in #3. After I read the entire page it became clear that it was Michael Fried Sr. who was setting up the legacies. It was like he was putting everything in order including the things which predated his marriage to Anna Maria. (BTW There are too many Anna Marias and Michaels to keep the players straight without a scorecard and I don’t have one. Also, forget that stuff about the inserted word being ides. The word repeats in the other entries and there clearly is the adverb ideo.) Here is the Latin which begins #3: “ut etiam pro antecessore* suo Michaele Lederle uxsoris suae Annae Mariae p.m. marito primo p.m. anniversarium solemne in mense Octobris legeretur ideo legavit...” Translation: “in order that also for his precursor* Michael Lederle, the late first husband of his late wife Anna Maria, a solemn anniversary (Mass) might be read (i.e. offered/celebrated) therefore he bequeathed...” The rest of the info, the bequests and the people for whom they were made remains the same as in my earlier post except that Michael Fried Sr. is doing the arrangements.

Note: antecessor/precusor: just a fancy way of saying that he was Anna Maria's first husband.

Entry #4 may be worth looking at as it ends in mid-sentence and therefore most likely must continue on the following page. Who knows what imfo you may find there? Here is the translation of the portion of #4 found on this page: “in order that in the month of July two votive requiem Masses might be read (i.e. offered/celebrated) for the parents of the above named Michael Fried, of which the first should be for his father, also named Michael Fried, and the second for his mother also Anna Maria with the surname...”
Where is that scorecard when you really need it?

Here is the translation of #2: “in order that in the month of October a solemn anniversary (Mass) might be read (i.e. offered/celebrated) for his wife Anna Maria therefore from the above named 75 florins he bequeathed again 25 florins to the church in Berg.

Wishing you success getting the wrenches out of the gears of your research,

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:46 pm      Post subject: Re: Translation request
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angelheredia wrote:
Hi, im from Argentina, my granfather was polish, I think his birth town is now Ukraine. I have this copy from a baptism testimony, i want to know what data can i extract from here to start looking for the original one.
My appreciation in advance.


Hi Angel,

The certificate should contain all the information which is found in the Birth & Baptism Register. The village is now in Ukraine so that would be the place to look for additional records. The Greek Catholic Parish is also known as the Ukrainian Catholic Parish.

Here follows the translation of the certificate. Given names are translated into Polish and English.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Top of Certificate: The Republic of Poland
Left Side: Diocese: Stanisławo
Parish: Lisowce
Center: Number (of certificate issued): 13/37 (#13 in 1937)
Right Side: Województwo (Province): Tarnopol
District/Powiat (County): Zalosce

Certificate of birth and of baptism

From the parish office of the Greek Rite Catholic Church under the title of the Blessed Virgin Mary Protectoress it is made known and attested that in the registers of this church for Liscowce Volume VIII, Page 279 is found the following:

Col. 1: Year, month, and day of birth, of Baptism, and of Confirmation: May 17, 1928 (in numerals)
In the year of Our Lord One Thousand Nine Hundred Twenty-Eight on the 17th day of May (in longhand)
Col. 2: House Number: Lisowce Number 111
Col. 3: NAME: Piotr/Peter
Col. 4: Religion: Greek Catholic
Col. 5: Sex/Gender: a boy
Col 6: The (marital) bed: Legitimate
Col. 7: PARENTS AND(THEIR) STATUS/OCCUPATION/CONDITION: Daniel, the son of Stefan/Stephen and of Zofia/Sophia née Biłoz(?); Anastazja/Anastasia Szymkiw(?) and of Paraskewa/Parascheva Błaskiw(?)
Col 8: SPONSORS AND (THEIR) STATUS/OCCUPATION/CONDITION: Stefan/Stephen Dromyk (&) Tekla/Thecla Sobczyszyn
Priest baptizing: Wiktor/Victor Lozynskyj, pastor of this place
Midwife: Dana Lozynska
Which Certificate I sign with my own had and affirm with the seal of the parish church.

Lisowce on the 20th day of February in the Year of Our Lord 1937.

Signature of the pastor (in 1937) with the parish seal
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angelheredia



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Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:11 am      Post subject:
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I can't thank you enough!
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:31 pm      Post subject:
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haha thanks Dave. You've cleared a patch of space in a muddy pond! I'm trying to keep track of all the family but yes too many Anna Maria's. It's also too bad these marriages of these couples do not exist so I can't get the real timing of the events and surnames.

more questions to follow!
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bfabus



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:29 am      Post subject: undecipherable in Latin church record
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I cannot make out an Latin phrases or words in this snarl. It is the cause of his death. I have translated everything else except the cause of death and the comments. If you have any insight I would appreciate it. I cannot imagine what it could say.


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angelheredia



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Post Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:35 pm      Post subject:
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Good evening, this is the back side of my grandfather's baptism certificate. Can you help me to extract any useful data, i dont know if ther are only legalizations or there is any passport number or id that i cant see.
Thank you very much



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:39 pm      Post subject:
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angelheredia wrote:
Good evening, this is the back side of my grandfather's baptism certificate. Can you help me to extract any useful data, i dont know if ther are only legalizations or there is any passport number or id that i cant see.
Thank you very much


Angel,

There are only legal authorizations in Polish without any useful information such as a passport number. There are plenty of revenue stamps indicating that various offices collected their fees.

Como sabes tambien el secretario in Argentina firmo confirmando que era una copia fiel del original—tambien sin informacion importante.

Deseandote exito,

Dave
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TedMack



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:03 am      Post subject: Latin Records Translations
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G'day Dave

I've been back looking at the Rychnow Parish records and have found these records from 1730 (right hand page) and just want to confirm that I am looking at them correctly as Birth records. I was hoping you could have a look and confirm please.

Cheers



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Louie



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:11 am      Post subject: LAtin Asstance needed
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I messed up trying to post. Sorry for the confusion.


Hello,
Sorry, for the poor copy.
Thank you for your help!
Stay safe,
louie


The following words caused me great concern:

triby
stili
razonico
e’ (ex?)
a’ (ab?)
filij
nie (Polish?) no


I am not sure about some of the spellings of the surnames.

Transliteration attempt:

1 754
23 Januarii praemissus triby (tribi) bannis stili  2, 3 Dominca post Epiph: nullo delicto razonico impedimitto copulatii e’ a’ parochi loci
honesta adolescens filiy (filii) post nie defunctum Nicolarum Philipzik (Philipczyk) ex Twardawa cum honesta ancilla Agnjk filia post nie defuncti Valentinum Poczker (Roczer) ex Twadawa testes fuere: Joes.(Joseph) Jahizek, Josephi Mathuzek ambo Twardawa.

Questions/Discussion
Is that a German s or f in the word “praemissus”? An ‘f” would not belong there. So it is a double ‘S”.

Does “ signify that ordinal numbers are to follow? OR secundus, but then I lose the sense.

Is that a “y” at the end of some words an “i” like in “triby”? I can’t recall any word in Latin that end in a “y”

Also, “post” usually takes the accusative case (I remember something) but should not the second “defuncti” be “defunctum” also? Or is the second example, masculine, genitive singular and forget about the “post”?

My translation:
1754
23 January Having the three marriage banns written (stili)(published) (previously) on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Sunday after Epiphany having no (azonico)impediment to the marriage (e’ a’) the local priest (joined/ married) the decent young man son of the (post nie, after something?) late Nicolas Philipzik(Philipczyk) from Twardawa with the honorable female servant Agnek daughter (post nie, after something?) of the late Valentin Poczker from Twardawa. Witnesses were Joes. Jahizek Joseph Mathuzek both (from) Twardawia



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:28 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Records Translations
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

I've been back looking at the Rychnow Parish records and have found these records from 1730 (right hand page) and just want to confirm that I am looking at them correctly as Birth records. I was hoping you could have a look and confirm please.

Cheers


Hi Ted,

The entries on the right side of the image (page 287) are death & burial records, or, more accurately, burial records since they record only the date of burial and not the date of death. The important words which state the type of records are the first two words of the first sentence at the top of the page, Metrices Defunctorum/metrics aka registers of the deceased, and the word sepulivi/I buried found in the first entry for each year. (The remaining entries for each year use a series of letters which abbreviate the Latin words for “I, who (is named) above, buried the body...” followed by the name of the deceased.

The entries on the left page are marriages for the year 1840. The key-word there is Copulatorum/of those joined in marriage. My guess is that baptisms would be found in another register or section of the copied records. I would also guess that they would be found prior to the marriage records since the usual order would be baptisms, marriages, and burials. However, that sequence is not set in stone.

What you are looking at in both types of records (burials & marriages) is a copy of the original registers. That explains the numbering system and the fact that the handwriting is the same for each entry no matter the priest who did the funeral or blessed the marriage nor the number of years which had passed. What is not self evident from the records is whether they were copied (in about 1840) simply to preserve old records which likely had begun to degrade or whether they were copied to act as civil transcripts.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave
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