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Latin records translations
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Louie



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Replies: 49

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:11 am      Post subject: LAtin Asstance needed
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I messed up trying to post. Sorry for the confusion.


Hello,
Sorry, for the poor copy.
Thank you for your help!
Stay safe,
louie


The following words caused me great concern:

triby
stili
razonico
e’ (ex?)
a’ (ab?)
filij
nie (Polish?) no


I am not sure about some of the spellings of the surnames.

Transliteration attempt:

1 754
23 Januarii praemissus triby (tribi) bannis stili  2, 3 Dominca post Epiph: nullo delicto razonico impedimitto copulatii e’ a’ parochi loci
honesta adolescens filiy (filii) post nie defunctum Nicolarum Philipzik (Philipczyk) ex Twardawa cum honesta ancilla Agnjk filia post nie defuncti Valentinum Poczker (Roczer) ex Twadawa testes fuere: Joes.(Joseph) Jahizek, Josephi Mathuzek ambo Twardawa.

Questions/Discussion
Is that a German s or f in the word “praemissus”? An ‘f” would not belong there. So it is a double ‘S”.

Does “ signify that ordinal numbers are to follow? OR secundus, but then I lose the sense.

Is that a “y” at the end of some words an “i” like in “triby”? I can’t recall any word in Latin that end in a “y”

Also, “post” usually takes the accusative case (I remember something) but should not the second “defuncti” be “defunctum” also? Or is the second example, masculine, genitive singular and forget about the “post”?

My translation:
1754
23 January Having the three marriage banns written (stili)(published) (previously) on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Sunday after Epiphany having no (azonico)impediment to the marriage (e’ a’) the local priest (joined/ married) the decent young man son of the (post nie, after something?) late Nicolas Philipzik(Philipczyk) from Twardawa with the honorable female servant Agnek daughter (post nie, after something?) of the late Valentin Poczker from Twardawa. Witnesses were Joes. Jahizek Joseph Mathuzek both (from) Twardawia



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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2144
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:28 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Records Translations
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

I've been back looking at the Rychnow Parish records and have found these records from 1730 (right hand page) and just want to confirm that I am looking at them correctly as Birth records. I was hoping you could have a look and confirm please.

Cheers


Hi Ted,

The entries on the right side of the image (page 287) are death & burial records, or, more accurately, burial records since they record only the date of burial and not the date of death. The important words which state the type of records are the first two words of the first sentence at the top of the page, Metrices Defunctorum/metrics aka registers of the deceased, and the word sepulivi/I buried found in the first entry for each year. (The remaining entries for each year use a series of letters which abbreviate the Latin words for “I, who (is named) above, buried the body...” followed by the name of the deceased.

The entries on the left page are marriages for the year 1840. The key-word there is Copulatorum/of those joined in marriage. My guess is that baptisms would be found in another register or section of the copied records. I would also guess that they would be found prior to the marriage records since the usual order would be baptisms, marriages, and burials. However, that sequence is not set in stone.

What you are looking at in both types of records (burials & marriages) is a copy of the original registers. That explains the numbering system and the fact that the handwriting is the same for each entry no matter the priest who did the funeral or blessed the marriage nor the number of years which had passed. What is not self evident from the records is whether they were copied (in about 1840) simply to preserve old records which likely had begun to degrade or whether they were copied to act as civil transcripts.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:41 pm      Post subject: Re: LAtin Asstance needed
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Louie wrote:
I messed up trying to post. Sorry for the confusion.


Hello,
Sorry, for the poor copy.
Thank you for your help!
Stay safe,
louie


The following words caused me great concern:

triby
stili
razonico
e’ (ex?)
a’ (ab?)
filij
nie (Polish?) no


I am not sure about some of the spellings of the surnames.

Transliteration attempt:

1 754
23 Januarii praemissus triby (tribi) bannis stili  2, 3 Dominca post Epiph: nullo delicto razonico impedimitto copulatii e’ a’ parochi loci
honesta adolescens filiy (filii) post nie defunctum Nicolarum Philipzik (Philipczyk) ex Twardawa cum honesta ancilla Agnjk filia post nie defuncti Valentinum Poczker (Roczer) ex Twadawa testes fuere: Joes.(Joseph) Jahizek, Josephi Mathuzek ambo Twardawa.

Questions/Discussion
Is that a German s or f in the word “praemissus”? An ‘f” would not belong there. So it is a double ‘S”.

Does “ signify that ordinal numbers are to follow? OR secundus, but then I lose the sense.

Is that a “y” at the end of some words an “i” like in “triby”? I can’t recall any word in Latin that end in a “y”

Also, “post” usually takes the accusative case (I remember something) but should not the second “defuncti” be “defunctum” also? Or is the second example, masculine, genitive singular and forget about the “post”?

My translation:
1754
23 January Having the three marriage banns written (stili)(published) (previously) on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Sunday after Epiphany having no (azonico)impediment to the marriage (e’ a’) the local priest (joined/ married) the decent young man son of the (post nie, after something?) late Nicolas Philipzik(Philipczyk) from Twardawa with the honorable female servant Agnek daughter (post nie, after something?) of the late Valentin Poczker from Twardawa. Witnesses were Joes. Jahizek Joseph Mathuzek both (from) Twardawia


Hi Louie,

You did a decent job with the transcription and the translation considering the quality of the image and the number of abbreviated and truncated words in the entry.

Here is my transcription with abbreviated and truncated letters supplied in parentheses. Something to keep in mind is that usually such records make little or no attempt at originality and they employ set formulas. Once you’ve transcribed and translated one record others follow the same pattern and employ the same or similar wording.

Transcription: 1754
23 Januarii praemissis tribus bannis* scili(cet) 1, 2, 3 Domincae post Epiph(aniam) nullo detecto canonico impedim(en)to* copulatus e(st) a parocho loci hones(tus)** adolescens Valentin(us) fili(us) post pie defunctum Nicolaum Philipzik (Philipczyk) ex Tvardava*** cum honesta** ancilla Agnete filia post pie defunct(um) Valentinum Początek) ex Tvardava*** testes fuere: Jo(ann)es Jakizek, Joseph(us) Mathu(s)zek ambo Tvardavi(enses)****.

Notes: * praemissis tribus bannis and nullo detecto canonico impedim(en)to are both Ablative Absolutes, which here consist of nouns [bannis & impedimento] (modified by adjectives) and Perfect Passive Participles, all of which are in the Ablative Case. The most literal translations would be “the three banns having been announced beforehand” and “no canonical impediment having been detected”. However, Ablative Absolutes can also be translated as dependent clauses. Here the clauses usually would be: “after the three banns had been announced beforehand” and “since no canonical impediment had been detected”.
**honestus, a, um/upright: This adjective was used with a standardized meaning to describe the social status of an individual as a peasant.
***Tvardava/Twardawa: Since Latin does not use the letter w the priest here substituted the letter v for the w which would be found in the vernacular form of the place name. The more common practice was to keep the place name in its vernacular form.
****Tvardavi(enses): the adjectival form of the place name.

Translation: On the 23rd of January 1754, after the three banns had been announced beforehand, actually/namely on the 1st, 2nd, (&) 3rd Sundays after Epiphany, (&) since no canonical impediment had been detected, the upright (single) young man, Walenty from Twardawa, the son after (i.e. surviving) the piously* deceased Mikołaj Philipzik (Philipczyk) was joined in marriage by the pastor of (this) place with the upright servant Agnieszka, the daughter after (i.e. surviving) the piously* deceased Walenty Początek from Twardawa; the witnesses were Jan Jakizek (&) Józef Mathu(s)zek, both residents of Twardawa.

Note: pie/piously: the adverb from the adjective pius, a, um, pious, holy, just, etc. Here the adverb modifies the Perfect Passive Participle defunctus, a, um.

On to the words which caused you concern…
triby: The squiggle which looks like y is the sign that the ending is truncated. The word actually is tribus, the Ablative Plural of tres, tria, three
stili (scili): The truncation/abbreviation for scili(cet), the adverb meaning actually, of course, namely
razonico actually is canonico/canonical. The adjective refers to the canons which listed the various impediments to marriage (e.g. not being of age, still being married to someone else, being closely related by blood, etc.)
e’ (ex?): Here e is the abbreviation for the verb est which is part of the Third Person Singular Indicative Passive. The complete verb form is copulatus est/was joined. If it were the preposition, it would be e/from. This preposition has two forms, e & ex. The form ex must be used before words which begin with vowels or the aspirate (h). Before consonants the two forms can be used interchangeably.
a’ (ab?): Here it is the preposition a/ab/abs which means by, from. Like e/ex the forms all have the same meaning. The form ab must be used before words which begin with vowels or the aspirate (h). Before consonants the forms a and ab can be used interchangeably. However, ab is usually not used before the labials b, p, f ,v, m nor before c, g, q, or t. The form abs is used only before the pronoun te, but a also can be used even there. Here the form is a because the next word (parocho) begins with the labial p.
filij: again, the last letter is a sign that the ending has been truncated. The full form is filius.
nie (Polish?) no: The word is not Polish. It is the adverb pie (cf. Note above).

On to Questions/Discussion…

Is that a German s or f in the word “praemissus”? An ‘f” would not belong there. So it is a double ‘S”.
It is how s was symbolized when two of the same letter were being used. It is not a German s. It was an 18th Century convention in many languages including Latin and English.

Does “ signify that ordinal numbers are to follow? OR secundus, but then I lose the sense.
It is how the priest wrote the ordinal numeral (1). The full forms would be prima/first. Secunda/second. Tertia/third. These forms are singular whereas the noun they modify, Dominicae, is plural. This is an exception to the rule that adjectives (ordinal numbers are adjectives) must agree with the noun they modify in Case, Number, & Gender. To use the plural form just does not make sense here—thus the exception.

Is that a “y” at the end of some words an “i” like in “triby”? I can’t recall any word in Latin that end in a “y”
You are correct that no Latin words end in y. Again what looks like y is actually the sign of a truncated ending. (Cf. words of concern above.)

Also, “post” usually takes the accusative case (I remember something) but should not the second “defuncti” be “defunctum” also? Or is the second example, masculine, genitive singular and forget about the “post”?
The form is defuntu with a line above the u. This is another sign of a truncated ending. The use of truncated words was a convention based on the presupposition any priest who would read the entry would know the correct full ending. The preposition post does govern the Accusative and thus every priest would know that the truncated ending would need to fully expressed with the Accusative Singular Masculine ending (um).

I’m not certain of the spelling of the surnames. The image quality is poor and thus my spelling is only my best reading of a poor image of surnames which I have great difficulty reading. The Latin is easy for me to read since I know what to expect but the same is not true of surnames.

I always translate the Latin form of given names into their proper vernacular form, which in records from Poland is their Polish form. In the past I’ve posted a list of Latin given names with their English and Polish forms. I’m attaching it here along with a list of words used to describe the social/economic status of individuals in case you may find them helpful.

Wishing you success and joy in your translations,

Dave



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td85



Joined: 27 Oct 2020
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:13 am      Post subject:
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Hi everyone,

I've been looking for my Zahaczewski ancestors in the village of Telesnica Oszwarowa and I'm hoping somebody can help me read a couple of these records. Hopefully I've put this in the right thread!



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Feb 1870 - House 34 - Demetrius Zahaczewski (son of Michael and Maria) of Telesnica, married Anna (daughter of Joannes ???) and Anna Krawczyk
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House #32 - Jan Zahaczewski (having a hard time making out what's been written next to him) died, aged 88
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jazyjoez



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:11 pm      Post subject: Podlewski Sedowska Marriage Transpation - Latin
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Can anyone translate this marriage record of Bartłomiej Podlewski and Katarzyna Sedowska from 1783? I believe itis in Latin.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
Joe Z.



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:01 pm      Post subject:
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td85 wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been looking for my Zahaczewski ancestors in the village of Telesnica Oszwarowa and I'm hoping somebody can help me read a couple of these records. Hopefully I've put this in the right thread!


Hello,

In the marriage record the scribe was not always consistent in the way in which he formed letters. A good example is the way in which the bride’s maiden name and the surname of her father were written. They should begin with the same letter. However, they do not appear to do so. When the first letter of the bride’s maiden name is compared with the given name of the first witness it becomes clear that the scribe formed the upper case P in two distinct ways.

There is a second Zahaczewski death record on the posted page. It is for the wife of Jan Zahaczewski, whose death record was of interest to you. It is found two entries before Jan’s record. I translated it since it seemed that it would be of interest to you.

All the given names are translated into their Polish form.

The translations follow.

Wishing you successful research,

Dave

Marriage Record of Dymitr Zahaczewski & Anna Podoczna

Col. 1: Series = Number (of the marriage for the year): Lacking
Col. 2: Year at top: 1870 Dies et Mensis = Day & Month (of Marriage): die 20 Februarii 870 = February 20, 1870
Col. 3: SPONSUS = GROOM
Col. 3a: Numerus Domus = Number of the House: 34
Col. 3b: NOMEN = NAME: Demetrius Zahaczewski filius Michaelis et Mariae Zahaczewski agricola ex Telesznica = Dymitr Zahaczewski, the son of Michał and Maria Zahaczewski, a farmer from Telesznica (current spelling Teleśnica)
Col. 3c: Religio = Religion
Col. 3c1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 3c2: Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Col. 3d: Aetas = Age: 46
Col. 3e: Caelebs = Bachelor: Blank
Col. 3f: Viduus = Widower: Checked
Col. 4: SPONSA = BRIDE
Col. 4a: NOMEN = NAME: Anna Podoczna* filia Joannis Podoczny* et Annae natae Krawczyk ex Telesznica = Anna Podoczna*, the daughter of Jan Podoczny* and of Anna born Krawczyk from Telesznica (current spelling Teleśnica)
Col. 4b: Religio = Religion
Col. 4b1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b2: Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Col. 4c: Aetas = Age: 32
Col. 4d: Caelebs = Maiden/Bachelorette: Checked
Col. 4e: Vidua = Widow: Blank
Col. 5a & 5b: TESTES et eorum Conditio = WITNESSES and their status/condition of life/occupation: Petrus Fedorowicz (&) Antonius Zahaczewski Rustici ex Telesznica = Piotr Feorowicz (&) Antoni Zahaczewski, peasant farmers from Telesznica (current spelling Teleśnica)

Note: *Although the initial letters do not appear to be the same, my reading is that they are both the upper case P.

Death Record of Maria Zahaczewska

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (in order): Lacking

Col. 2: Dies mortis, 1840, Mensis = Date of death, 1840, Month
Col. 2A: Mortuus = Death: 27 8bris = October 27, 1840
Col. 2B: Sepultus = Burial: Lacking

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 32

Col. 4: Nomen Mortui = Name of the Deceased: Maria Joannis Zahaczewski uxor = Maria. The wife of Jan Zahaczewski

Col. 5: Religio = Religion
Col. 5A:Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 5 B:Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6A: Masculus = Masculine/Male: Blank
Col. 6B: Femina = Female: Checked

Col. 7: Dies Vitae = Age (literally “days of life”) 80:

Col. 8: Morbus et qualitas mortis = Disease and type of death: Ordinaria = Ordinary (i.e. of natural causes)

Death Record of Jan Zahaczewski

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (in order): Lackimg

Col. 2: Dies mortis, 1840, Mensis = Date of death, 1840, Month
Col. 2A: Mortuus = Death: 29 9bris = November 29, 1840
Col. 2B: Sepultus = Burial: Lacking

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 32

Col. 4: Nomen Mortui = Name of the Deceased: Joannes Zahaczewski lanternarius* = Jan Zahaczewski, lantern bearer*

Col. 5: Religio = Religion
Col. 5A:Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 5 B:Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6A: Masculus = Masculine/Male: Checked
Col. 6B: Femina = Female: Blank

Col. 7: Dies Vitae = Age (literally “days of life”) 88

Col. 8: Morbus et qualitas mortis = Disease and type of death: Ordinaria = Ordinary (i.e. of natural causes)

*That is my best reading of the letters. Given his age it would make sense that he was working as part of the night watch—an occupation which did not require much physical exertion.
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td85



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:49 pm      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
td85 wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been looking for my Zahaczewski ancestors in the village of Telesnica Oszwarowa and I'm hoping somebody can help me read a couple of these records. Hopefully I've put this in the right thread!


Hello,

In the marriage record the scribe was not always consistent in the way in which he formed letters. A good example is the way in which the bride’s maiden name and the surname of her father were written. They should begin with the same letter. However, they do not appear to do so. When the first letter of the bride’s maiden name is compared with the given name of the first witness it becomes clear that the scribe formed the upper case P in two distinct ways.

There is a second Zahaczewski death record on the posted page. It is for the wife of Jan Zahaczewski, whose death record was of interest to you. It is found two entries before Jan’s record. I translated it since it seemed that it would be of interest to you.

All the given names are translated into their Polish form.

The translations follow.

Wishing you successful research,

Dave

Marriage Record of Dymitr Zahaczewski & Anna Podoczna

Col. 1: Series = Number (of the marriage for the year): Lacking
Col. 2: Year at top: 1870 Dies et Mensis = Day & Month (of Marriage): die 20 Februarii 870 = February 20, 1870
Col. 3: SPONSUS = GROOM
Col. 3a: Numerus Domus = Number of the House: 34
Col. 3b: NOMEN = NAME: Demetrius Zahaczewski filius Michaelis et Mariae Zahaczewski agricola ex Telesznica = Dymitr Zahaczewski, the son of Michał and Maria Zahaczewski, a farmer from Telesznica (current spelling Teleśnica)
Col. 3c: Religio = Religion
Col. 3c1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 3c2: Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Col. 3d: Aetas = Age: 46
Col. 3e: Caelebs = Bachelor: Blank
Col. 3f: Viduus = Widower: Checked
Col. 4: SPONSA = BRIDE
Col. 4a: NOMEN = NAME: Anna Podoczna* filia Joannis Podoczny* et Annae natae Krawczyk ex Telesznica = Anna Podoczna*, the daughter of Jan Podoczny* and of Anna born Krawczyk from Telesznica (current spelling Teleśnica)
Col. 4b: Religio = Religion
Col. 4b1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b2: Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Col. 4c: Aetas = Age: 32
Col. 4d: Caelebs = Maiden/Bachelorette: Checked
Col. 4e: Vidua = Widow: Blank
Col. 5a & 5b: TESTES et eorum Conditio = WITNESSES and their status/condition of life/occupation: Petrus Fedorowicz (&) Antonius Zahaczewski Rustici ex Telesznica = Piotr Feorowicz (&) Antoni Zahaczewski, peasant farmers from Telesznica (current spelling Teleśnica)

Note: *Although the initial letters do not appear to be the same, my reading is that they are both the upper case P.

Death Record of Maria Zahaczewska

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (in order): Lacking

Col. 2: Dies mortis, 1840, Mensis = Date of death, 1840, Month
Col. 2A: Mortuus = Death: 27 8bris = October 27, 1840
Col. 2B: Sepultus = Burial: Lacking

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 32

Col. 4: Nomen Mortui = Name of the Deceased: Maria Joannis Zahaczewski uxor = Maria. The wife of Jan Zahaczewski

Col. 5: Religio = Religion
Col. 5A:Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 5 B:Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6A: Masculus = Masculine/Male: Blank
Col. 6B: Femina = Female: Checked

Col. 7: Dies Vitae = Age (literally “days of life”) 80:

Col. 8: Morbus et qualitas mortis = Disease and type of death: Ordinaria = Ordinary (i.e. of natural causes)

Death Record of Jan Zahaczewski

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (in order): Lackimg

Col. 2: Dies mortis, 1840, Mensis = Date of death, 1840, Month
Col. 2A: Mortuus = Death: 29 9bris = November 29, 1840
Col. 2B: Sepultus = Burial: Lacking

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 32

Col. 4: Nomen Mortui = Name of the Deceased: Joannes Zahaczewski lanternarius* = Jan Zahaczewski, lantern bearer*

Col. 5: Religio = Religion
Col. 5A:Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 5 B:Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6A: Masculus = Masculine/Male: Checked
Col. 6B: Femina = Female: Blank

Col. 7: Dies Vitae = Age (literally “days of life”) 88

Col. 8: Morbus et qualitas mortis = Disease and type of death: Ordinaria = Ordinary (i.e. of natural causes)

*That is my best reading of the letters. Given his age it would make sense that he was working as part of the night watch—an occupation which did not require much physical exertion.


Thank you so very much! If it isn't too much trouble, there's one more I'm still struggling a little with.



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KarenJones



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:15 pm      Post subject: Given name or surname for Julianna
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I was told to come over to the Latin forum for an opinion.

On the baptism record for Veronica Piskorska/ski, there is a reference to the mother Julianna Paul. The reference is the name, "Leopold". We have never seen that name on any documents. On Julianna Paul Piskorski's Certificate of Death, it states that her father was Herman Paul. We believe this to be true. In addition, it is likely that Julianna or her husband Felix Piskorski provided this information to the church. I do not know what to think of this name. 1. Do you think this is a given name, a "nickname" or a surname? 2. Do you agree that the reference to Pila PR. Zach translates to Pila, West Prussia?

By the way, this is the first time for me on the Latin forum, and I quickly glanced through some posts. I think I could really learn a lot just reading the posts, which I will do!
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:17 pm      Post subject: Re: Podlewski Sedowska Marriage Transpation - Latin
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jazyjoez wrote:
Can anyone translate this marriage record of Bartłomiej Podlewski and Katarzyna Sedowska from 1783? I believe itis in Latin.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
Joe Z.


Hi Joe,

The record is in Latin and here is the translation.

Wishing you successful research,

Dave

Translation: At Top: Name of village: Choyno (Current spelling: Chojno
Body of Entry: On the 19th day of January in the year 1783 I, Szymon Krzywkowski, the pastor of Roze, after the three banns had been announced in the presence of the Congregation, assisted at the marriage of the industrious* Bartłomiej Podlewski, a single young man, and Katarzyna Sendowska, a maiden, in the presence of the witnesses, the upright** Wojciech Ziołkowski and the upright** Michał Szczytkowski, laymen from the parish of Roze (current spelling: Ruże).

Notes: *laboriosus/industrious: an adjective used to designate an individual as a peasant.
**honestus/upright: an adjective used to describe peasant farmers from a village or a small town.


Last edited by dnowicki on Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:20 pm      Post subject:
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td85 wrote:


Thank you so very much! If it isn't too much trouble, there's one more I'm still struggling a little with.


Hi,

Here is the translation of the birth of Anastazja. Hope you find it useful.

Dave

Col. 1: Series = Number in Order: Missing

Col. 2: Mensis = Month: 1838 October

Col. 2a: Natus = Of Birth 6 8bris = October 6

Col. 2b: Baptisat. = Of Baptism 6 8bris = October 6

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 32

Col. 4: Nomen = Name (of person baptized): Anastasia = Anastazja

Col. 4: Religio = Religion
Col. 4a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b: Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 5: Sexus = Gender
Col. 5a: Puer = Boy: Blank
Col. 5b: Puella = Girl: Checked

Col. 6: Thori = Bed
Col. 6a. Legitimi = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 6b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank

Col. 7: Parentes = Parents
Col. 7a: Nomen = Name: Michael Zahaczewski filius Joannis et Mariae Hryniewicka ex Sokołowa—Maria Basilii Darzkiewicz filia et Teklae Gongulewska ex Teleżnica = Michał Zahaczewski, the son of Jan and of Maria Hryniewicka from Sokołowa—Maria, the daughter of Bazyli Darzkiewicz and of Tekla (née) Gongulewska from Teleżnica
Col. 7b: Conditio = State of Life/Occupation:agr(icolae) = farmers

Col. 8: Patrini = Sponsors and their State of Life/Occupation
Col. 8a: Nomen = Name(s): Andreas Malecki, Anna Barzadynowa = Andrzej Malecki, Anna Barzadynowa
Col. 8b: Conditio = State of Life/Occupation: agr(icolae) = farmers

Notation: Ewa Hałaburdowa obstetrix = Ewa Hałaburdowa (was) the midwife
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jazyjoez



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:25 pm      Post subject: Correction
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Thanks Dave! I thought that was the parish name from the record above my marriage record, hence the cut off. Attached is a corrected copy.

Sincerely,
Joe Z.



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:39 pm      Post subject: Re: Given name or surname for Julianna
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KarenJones wrote:
I was told to come over to the Latin forum for an opinion.

On the baptism record for Veronica Piskorska/ski, there is a reference to the mother Julianna Paul. The reference is the name, "Leopold". We have never seen that name on any documents. On Julianna Paul Piskorski's Certificate of Death, it states that her father was Herman Paul. We believe this to be true. In addition, it is likely that Julianna or her husband Felix Piskorski provided this information to the church. I do not know what to think of this name. 1. Do you think this is a given name, a "nickname" or a surname? 2. Do you agree that the reference to Pila PR. Zach translates to Pila, West Prussia?

By the way, this is the first time for me on the Latin forum, and I quickly glanced through some posts. I think I could really learn a lot just reading the posts, which I will do!


Hi Karen,

I’m happy that you feel that you could learn from the posts in this thread. As a retired teacher what you feel validates what I’ve attempted to do in the Latin Translations thread.

The word “nata” is the Perfect Passive Participle (a verbal adjective) of the verb nascor, nasci, natus, to be born. Here it is feminine and is modifying the name of the mother, Juliana. It means “born” or “née” and therefore the surname, Leopold, which follows is recorded as her maiden name. I read your other post and the responses to that post and it definitely does not agree with her surname in the birth record of Józef/Joseph. Which is the correct version of her maiden cannot be proven beyond doubt with the info of these two birth records. I would lean towards the info in Józef/Joseph’s record, but we all know that one cannot do good genealogical research based on leanings or feelings. One could construct a proof argument for Paul being her maiden name and the death record of Herman Paul being that of her father, keeping in mind that her father’s name on her death certificate is not considered primary source information. If it were my family, I would definitely look for additional records before reaching a firm conclusion.

Here are some record links to possibly use to explore the question. Birth of Michał Paul (who could be her brother, if her maiden name is Paul): https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=2&zs=1606d&sy=3500&kt=2&plik=092-099.jpg#zoom=1&x=2284&y=719 It gives his parents as Herman Paul & Julia Rusinska. If the following two census records are for your Piskorski family, it would seem that the family moved from NY to Minnesota and then back again to NY. I believe it would be worthwhile to search for the baptismal records of Veronica’s siblings born in NY. (Several died in Minn. I saw the death listing on Family Search but didn’t copy the links.) By 1910 her mother had given birth to 10 children, but only 6 were still living, which agrees with her younger siblings having died in Minn. Attached is a list of Polish RC parishes in NY. If the siblings were not baptized in St. Adalbert’s I would check St. Stanislaus next before trying the other parishes. I know that the records are not indexed and that the search would be very time consuming but it could yield good results. Here are the Census links: 1895 Minnesota State Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQDM-FRG (Felix: Laborer) & 1910 Federal Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RJ1-PQB?i=62&cc=1727033&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM5CN-959 (Felix: Mason)

Unfortunately, birth & baptism records are not primary sources for the maiden name of the mother. It is almost 100% certain that Julianna did not provide the information. The mother was almost never present for the baptism or for the meeting with the priest to arrange for the baptism. The reason is that until after the reforms of Vatican II in the 1960s women did not appear in public after having given birth until after they had received the purification blessing (a carryover from Jewish purification rites). That blessing usually took place between 30 & 40 days after giving birth. The info was provided by the father and/or the sponsors aka godparents and thus is classified as a secondary source. Primary sources for her maiden name would be her birth and/or her marriage record.

Sophia was correct that the place of Julianna’s birth is Pila in what at the time was West Prussia. There are several places with that name it what would have been West Prussia but the largest (and the closest to the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) would be the town of Piła which was known in German as Schnsidenül (cf. attached map and the attached Powiat Locator (To give you an idea of the border between the Russian & German Partitions and the distance between Piła and Młodzieszyn) & Powiat Sochaczewski for the location of Młodzieszyn. I would suggest searching online records for Piła. Unfortunately only a small number of years for Młodzieszyn are available online.

Here is a translation of Veronica’s baptism record.
Top of Page: Register of Baptisms in the Church of St. Adalbert, Bishop & Martyr in Buffalo , NY of the Diocese of Buffalo
Col. 1: Family Name: Number 50; Piskorski
Col. 2: AD 1892 Day, Month: February 7
Col. 3: Register of those baptized: I, the undersigned, baptized Veronica, born on February 4, 1892 of Felix Piskorski from Młodzieszyn, Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie)
and Julianna born/née Leopold from Piła, West Prussia.
The sponsors were Marcel Koralewski and Maryanna Dozubel
Signature of Priest.

A bit about this record...During the late 16th Century the Council of Trent mandated the keeping of sacramental records. Until the late 18th and early 19th Centuries Catholic parishes kept records as short paragraphs entered in a blank register but, as time went on printed registers came into use. The Second Plenary Council of Baltimore in 1866 mandated that all Catholic Parishes in the USA keep registers of Baptisms, Confirmations, Marriages, & Funerals. All except the funeral records were mandated to be kept in Latin. This register is a short paragraph fill-in-the blanks printed register designed and published by Benziger Brothers meant to reduce the time needed to enter short paragraph style baptismal records.

I hope that you find this response useful.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave



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td85



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Post Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:21 am      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
td85 wrote:


Thank you so very much! If it isn't too much trouble, there's one more I'm still struggling a little with.


Hi,

Here is the translation of the birth of Anastazja. Hope you find it useful.

Dave

Col. 1: Series = Number in Order: Missing

Col. 2: Mensis = Month: 1838 October

Col. 2a: Natus = Of Birth 6 8bris = October 6

Col. 2b: Baptisat. = Of Baptism 6 8bris = October 6

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 32

Col. 4: Nomen = Name (of person baptized): Anastasia = Anastazja

Col. 4: Religio = Religion
Col. 4a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b: Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 5: Sexus = Gender
Col. 5a: Puer = Boy: Blank
Col. 5b: Puella = Girl: Checked

Col. 6: Thori = Bed
Col. 6a. Legitimi = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 6b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank

Col. 7: Parentes = Parents
Col. 7a: Nomen = Name: Michael Zahaczewski filius Joannis et Mariae Hryniewicka ex Sokołowa—Maria Basilii Darzkiewicz filia et Teklae Gongulewska ex Teleżnica = Michał Zahaczewski, the son of Jan and of Maria Hryniewicka from Sokołowa—Maria, the daughter of Bazyli Darzkiewicz and of Tekla (née) Gongulewska from Teleżnica
Col. 7b: Conditio = State of Life/Occupation:agr(icolae) = farmers

Col. 8: Patrini = Sponsors and their State of Life/Occupation
Col. 8a: Nomen = Name(s): Andreas Malecki, Anna Barzadynowa = Andrzej Malecki, Anna Barzadynowa
Col. 8b: Conditio = State of Life/Occupation: agr(icolae) = farmers

Notation: Ewa Hałaburdowa obstetrix = Ewa Hałaburdowa (was) the midwife


Thank you again! This means a lot to me.
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Post Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:07 am      Post subject: Re: Correction
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jazyjoez wrote:
Thanks Dave! I thought that was the parish name from the record above my marriage record, hence the cut off. Attached is a corrected copy.

Sincerely,
Joe Z.


Hi Joe,

I added the village name to the translation. The place above the entry is the village where the couple lived at the time of the wedding. It is written as Choyno. The current spelling is Chojno. It was both a village and a manorial farmstead (folwark). In 1827 it had 36 houses and a population of 339 and once upon a time was the site of a parish church. (Link to Słownik geograficzny entry for Chojno http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_I/620). It was part of the parish of Róże. The current spelling is Ruże and the patron saints of the parish are the Apostles Peter & Paul. Here is the link to the Słownik geograficzny entry for Ruże http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_X/47

Enjoy the weekend.

Dave
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jazyjoez



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Post Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:33 am      Post subject: Wow! Cool Background Information
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Thanks for the cool background information on Chojno! It seems my grandmother's line settled in this place for a long time as I am finding lots of records from this location that are filmed by the Latter Day Saints (https://familysearch.org).

Sincerely,
Joe Z.
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