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dnowicki
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation

TedMack wrote:

G'day Dave

I'm back into it after my short break. A nice easy one to start with, hopefully I have it correct. Can you please check at your leisure. From the parish of Kościelec (Kalisz).

I make it out as:
Left Margin: Mycielin 19th February 1797
Body of entry: Contracted marriage in the church of Kościelec, after previously publication of three banns on Sundays, the upright Andrzej Ławiński from Mycielin, widower and the upright Katarzyna, maiden also from Mycielin.
Right side: Record number 2, Widower over 60 with maiden = checked, Groom aged 60 and Bride aged 24.

Cheers
Ted

Hi Ted,

It looks like you kept up on your Latin studies during your short break. Your post is all good. If we were giving grades you would get an A. The only thing keeping you from an A+ are the words “diebus festivis”. You are correct that those certainly are Sundays but they are not limited to Sundays and include holy days which do not always fall on a Sunday such as Christmas, the Feast of the Assumption, All Saints Day etc. One such feast day is the Feast of the Purification of Mary or the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple and is also known as Candlemas day and falls on February 2. During the 18th century in Poland it was a holy day of obligation and thus marriage bans would have been proclaimed on that day— small potatoes but just for the sake of accuracy…

All in all, you can say ‘Ho hum, another day another A”.

Dave

dnowicki
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Translation of Latin marriage record needed

Luwik_NJ wrote:

I mistakenly posted this to a different area of the forum, hopefully this one appears in the Latin translation section this time.

I found the marriage record of one of my relatives in Poland. One of my aunts thought that either the bride or groom had been widowed and this was a second marriage. I've tried to read the record but I don't see anything that would indicate it was a second marriage. His name is Franciszek Telesz and her name is Catharina Szurlej. I see her father's name is Franciszek but don't know if there is anything here that will help me learn more about him. Is the house address #349? Is there a street listed? Thanks for your help!

Hi Luwik_NJ,

The record is not that of a second marriage. The bride was a maiden and the groom was a bachelor. The column headings, which are not included on the posted image, go a long way towards clarifying the content of the record. The first two narrow columns following the groom’s information deal with the religion of the groom. The first column, which is checked, is that he was Catholic. The next narrow column, which is blank, would be checked if he were of another religion. The next narrow column gives his age which is 28. The next narrow column, which is checked, is for a bachelor. The final narrow column is for a widower and is blank.

The narrow columns following the brides information are similar. The first two deal with her religion. The column for Catholic is checked and the column for another religion is blank. The next narrow column gives her age which is 22. The next narrow column, which is checked, is for a maiden. The final narrow column, which is blank, is for a widow.

Is the house address #349? The house NUMBER is 349. Is there a street listed? No. In records from Galicia unless the record was from a town or city, streets were not mentioned. Only house numbers are given for villages.

The groom, Franciszek Telesz, was a reserve soldier who had completed his military duty and was released from active service to the reserves. (It is most likely that he had been conscripted and was not a volunteer.) He was the son of Jakub/Jacob Telesz and of Katarzyna/Catherine Nastcz(?) who were tenants in Lutcz????

The bride, Katarzyna/Catherine Szurlej, was the daughter of Franciszek/Francis Szurlej and of the late Regina (spelled the same in Polish, English, and Latin) Stadinowicz.

The paragraph at the bottom of the entry deals with legalities such as the dates of the banns, the name of the priest who blessed the marriage, etc. and does not contain any information that would help you to understand the lives of the bride and the groom. I am not certain of the spelling of the maiden name of the mother of the groom nor of the village where the groom and his parents resided. I entered what I saw as the best reading of the letters of those words.

Wishing you successful researching,

Dave

cpkaway

Joined: 21 Jan 2024
Replies: 25
Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1869 Marriage record from Stary Sambor (Galicia)

[quote="dnowicki"][quote="cpkaway"]

dnowicki wrote:

Hi Chris,

The phrase you read as “conjugis illias” is actually “conjugis illius”. Conjux, conjugis, f. is a 3rd Declension noun (also appearing as conjunx) which means “spouse/wife”. Illius is the Genitive Singular of the Demonstrative pronoun ille, illa, illud, which means “that” as distinct from the speaker (or in this case, the writer). It would be translated as “of the wife of that one (i.e. of Franciszek…”). The only reason that I can “see” the letters in illius is that I know what the word should be.

I cannot help you with your other question because I am not able to see the letters clearly and I can’t read what I can’t see. The lamps are not as good as they used to be. Cramped handwriting in an image which is smaller than the original entry in the Parish register does not make letters easy to read and to me it is an exercise in frustration. The best way to post images is to include the link to the original which allows for zooming.

Wishing you the best,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thank you for deciphering and explaining the term "illius". It seems a bit redundant, so perhaps that is why I have not seen it in my other marriage records.

As to my other request, the link was included in my original post, but here it is again although I don't know if it will help because one letter is written over a vertical line.
http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/437/sygn.%2056/pages/PL_1_437_56_0020.htm

As I wrote before:
(in the 1872 Galicia Szematyzm, he is listed as "adiunktów sąd" for the "Circuit Court in Przemyśl" - perhaps that will help with the word before "judicii")

Ladislaus Przybylski c.r. a?i. judicii civis
Władysław Przybylski, Imperial-Royal a?i. civil judge?

Best regards
Chris

TedMack

Joined: 12 Jun 2020
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation

dnowicki wrote:

TedMack wrote:

G'day Dave

Thanks for the correction. I was tossing up between Sunday's and Feast Days but made the wrong call. I'll be calling "heads" in future.

Cheers
Ted

Denise Worden

Joined: 13 Jul 2023
Replies: 2
Location: Illinois USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:43 am Post subject: Request for translation

This is a request to translate the birth record for Marianna Kalicka, born March 19, 1861. The record is from Borek Stary parish in Podkarpackie province. Thank you.

Maryanna Kalicka birth record Brzezowka in Borek Stary parish Podkarpackie province.jpg

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dnowicki
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Request for translation

Denise Worden wrote:

This is a request to translate the birth record for Marianna Kalicka, born March 19, 1861. The record is from Borek Stary parish in Podkarpackie province. Thank you.

Hi Denise,

Latin given names are translated into their Polish version. The name of the person baptized is translated using the 19th & early 20th Century usual Polish spelling, Maryanna. The contemporary Polish spelling is Marianna. I am very unsure of the maiden name of the wife of Wawrzyniec Malarz.

The translation follows.

Wishing you successful researching,

Dave

Translation:

Col. 1: Series = Number in Order: 6

Col. 2: Mensis = Month: March 1861

Col. 2a: Natus = Of Birth: March 19

Col. 2b: Baptisatus = Of Baptism: March 20

Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 56

Col. 4: Nomen = Name (of person baptized): Maryanna

Col. 4: Religio = Religion
Col. 4a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 4b: Aut alia = Or another: Blank

Col. 5: Sexus = Gender
Col. 5a: Puer = Boy: Blank
Col. 5b: Puella = Girl: Checked

Col. 6: Thori = Bed
Col. 6a. Legitimi = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 6b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank

Col. 7: Parentes = Parents
Col. 7a: Pater = Father: Wawrzyniec Kalicki, a cottager
Col. 7b: Mater = Mother: Katarzyna Malarz, the daughter of the legitimate marriage of Wawrzyniec Malarz and of Maryanna born Milał(?) , farmers

Col. 8: Patrini et eorum Conditio = Sponsors and their State of Life/Occupation: (Godparents is the how patrini are popularly known. Technically they are sponsors.) : Wojciech Malarz, a servant; Zofia, the wifw of Józef Kalicki, a farmer.

Notations in columns 4a-8:
Present at the birth X Magdalena Sowa, a non-examined midwife.*
Signed by Kilar, Józef, superior/pastor in Borek.

Note:*non-examinata/not examined: Two types of midwives practiced in Galicia, those who had been examined regarding their knowledge and skills and those who had not. Other ways to look at these two types of midwives in conteporary parlance would be that some were “board certified” and some were not or that some were licensed and some were not. Often both types practiced in the same parish during the same time period.

Luwik_NJ

Joined: 26 Nov 2023
Replies: 6
Location: New Jersey USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Translation of Latin marriage record needed

Thank you for the translation. The surprise was not in finding neither the bride nor groom was widowed but finding the bride's mother was deceased. The story I was told about a possible widow must have got lost in translation and it was the bride's dad who was the widower. The information from your translation gets me a bit closer to the getting a more complete picture of my ancestors. This record yields yet more new cousins in Poland to add to my list of surnames.

If anyone reading this has some advice to offer about finding/connecting to cousins in Poland via Polish forums, social media, white pages directory, or whatever worked for you, let me know. The number of Szurlej's in Poland looks to be quite small, about 678 now, using https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Szurlej The older records I've found would indicate the clan was also quite small 150 yrs ago, so I would think anyone I connect to will only be 3 or 4 generations removed from my grandfather's generation born in Poland. This is probably the only way I'm going to unearth the past at the time my ancestors immigrated to America. If my cousins in Poland don't have any info of the past, then everything is lost to history.

Regards,
Ludvik
-----------------

dnowicki wrote:

Luwik_NJ wrote:

cpkaway

Joined: 21 Jan 2024
Replies: 25
Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:42 am Post subject: Maryan Przybylski and Maria Hirt 1901.02.02 Marriage in Lwow

I would appreciate help checking the following transcription and translating the words in bold as well as the marriage details at the bottom of the record.

Link:
http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%201723/pages/PL_1_301_1723_0134.htm

Sponsus:
D[omi]nus Marianus Przybylski
officialis austr[iae] hungar[ica] banelti
nat[a] Przemyśl fil[ius] leg. Vladislai c.r. judexuscultantis et Clementinae Krupińska

He worked for the Austro-Hungarian bank in Lwow.
1. "banelti"?
2. occupation "judexuscultantis"?

Sponsa:
D[omi]na Maria Valeria Emilia /3 n[omina]/ Hirt nata
Viennae fil[ia] leg. d[efuncti] Emerici, musatoris et def[uncta] Victoriai n[omen] Knesek

3. Occupation "musatoris"?

Testes:
4. Their occupations are in Polish and seem to mean "property owner". Surely there is a Latin version of this, so why use Polish?

Marriage details:
Camen pentenup die 12 Jan. producta testimonia baptismi et domicilii ut???? 3 banno proclamata, suvatis ale lago suvandis benedixit Matrimonio
P[astoris] Andreas Kominek Coop[erator]

5. Please correct the Latin and translate the marriage details at the bottom of the document.

Thank you
Chris

Przybylski-Maryan&Hirt-Maria-1901.02.02-Marriage.jpg

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TedMack

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:50 am Post subject: Latin Record Translation

G'day Dave

This is the next installment from the parish of Koło. They are fairly basic and I think I have most of them correct with the exception of one or two words. If you could cast your eyes over these when you get a chance please. I only have cropped records.

Parish – Koło – 1797 - May
#25 Bliznia Wies
Left Column = Baptism date = 29
Body of entry: The same as above baptized an infant Jan, born on the 28th of the same month to parents industrious Antoni and Małgorzata Szmaidow (Szmayda). Godparents Maciej Pawłowski and Franciszka Boniecka from Suburbco (Based on the Place in Geneteka the following record is from Przedmieście. I presume that refers to the suburbs of Koło? As I can’t locate a village of that name on Gilly map – Blizna is now within Koło).

Parish – Koło – 1786
#5 Bliznia Wies
Body of entry: In the year 1786 on the 18th of March I the same as above baptized an infant named Joźef born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni and Małgorzata Szmaidow (Szmayda). Godparents are the industrious Antoni Mokrzak and renowned (?) Teresa Wilkoska (?) (?) (who is a colonist? or is that “Colensis” abbreviated for the Latin 3rd Declension adjective for the town of Koło?)

Parish – Koło – 1793
#9 Bliznia Wies (left and right columns)
Body of entry: on the 3rd of March I the same as above baptized an infant named Kunegunda born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni Szmayda and Małgorzata. Godparents Marcin Szurgot and Katarzyna Wrzolzczowa (?)

Parish – Koło – 1799
#62 Bliznia Wies (left column)
Body of entry: on the 15th of October I Łukasz Fecłowski baptized an infant named Łukasz born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni and Małgorzata Szmaydow (Szmayda). Godparents renowned Bartłomiej Aklimski townsman, Agnieszka Szurgot, Maciej Wołczak and renowned maiden Julianna Turkiewiczowna colonist (or is that the Latin 3rd Declension adjective for the town of Koło?)

Cheers
Ted

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kenkoziol

Joined: 05 Jan 2023
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:09 pm Post subject: Latin Translation

Hello and thank you! I am looking to translate line number 8 here for Adalbertus Makowski. I've tried to do some research enough that I can get most of it but wanted to confirm what this says under the columns for Names and Surnames, Consent, and Witnesses. Thank you, I appreciate it!

Makowski-Zameczak marriage.jpg

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dnowicki
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Maryan Przybylski and Maria Hirt 1901.02.02 Marriage in

cpkaway wrote:

Hi Chris,

I certainly was aware that the link you have provided earlier connected to the archive from which the record was taken. However, that link is of no help. No matter what I do I’m unable to zoom into the image without losing clarity. As I said before I cannot read what I cannot see. Or to put it another way, equus iam mortuus est (the horse has already died) and no matter how much it is beaten it will not get up and run. I will only transcribe and translate what I am able to see. Here it is...

Occupation "musatoris"? Should be muratoris. A murator is a mason.

Marriage details: Camen pentenup die 12 Jan. producta testimonia baptismi et domicilii ut???? 3 banno proclamata, suvatis ale lago suvandis benedixit Matrimonio
Should be Examen pentenuptiale...utrumque...banna (banna, bannorum, n. Banns)...servatis uti lege servandis; benedixit matrimonio P. Andreas Kominek Coop.
P[astoris] is a most unlikely interpretation of the abbreviation P. The priest was the assistant (cooperator). There is no way to know the meaning of the letter.

Translation: “The final prenuptial examination was on the 12th day of January. The baptism and residence certificates of each were brought; the 3 banns had been proclaimed; everything which must be observed by law was observed; P. Andrzej Kominek, the assistant, blessed the marriage.

Here are a few things which anyone researching records from Galicia needs to keep in mind:

I. Latin had not been the vernacular of any ethnic group for well over a millennium before these records were composed.

II. The records from Galicia were primarily intended for civil purposes but have been used and continue to be used as ecclesiastical records in the parishes of the region.

III. Latin found in these records is a small subset of ecclesiastical Latin used in the 19th century.

IV. The vocabulary used for individuals who were employed by the government to describe their occupations is an even smaller subset of the Latin used in Galicia.

V. The vocabulary used for individuals who are not employed by the government is rather basic and easy to recognize.

VI. The records were designed by officials of the Austrian Empire and the content and vocabulary and style of the records was determined by government bureaucrats.

VII. The entries in the metrical books were not entered by the parish priest but rather buy a scribe whom he hired and who had a degree of familiarity with the bureaucratic Latin.

VIII. Much of what is contained in the entries was of no real interest or value for ecclesiastical purposes but was designed to fulfill the interests of the state.

A general observation… human beings have two kinds of vocabulary, active and passive. One’s active vocabulary includes words that one can regularly use by simply calling them up from stored memory. Passive vocabulary which is larger includes words which one can recognize but does not ordinarily use. Since the English language has over 250,000 words it is unlikely that anyone has either an active or a passive vocabulary which includes all of those words. Classical Latin had a vocabulary of approximately 30,000 words and of course that vocabulary was considerably larger in later Latin—especially Latin which was used after the language was no longer the vernacular of any particular ethnic group. Even though the vocabulary of the Latin language is considerably smaller than that of the English language it is still doubtful that anyone would have comprehensive recognition of passive vocabulary and certainly not of active vocabulary.

Dave

dnowicki
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation

TedMack wrote:

Hi Ted,

You’ve been busy since your break. The additions/comments follow.

Dave

1797 Baptism: all good but I would change the opening to read “I, the same…” The subject, I, is included in the verb form baptisavi. Suburbio does refer to an unspecified suburb of Koło. Bliżnawies in Polish means the near village. It probably became part of Koło between 1797 and the Gilly Map of 1802-3. Keep the verb naming the sponsors/godparents in the past. Fuere is the 3rd Person Plural Perfect Indicative Active. It is the shorter form of fuerunt, which means the same (“were”).

1786

Renowned is an adjective which describes a middle class craftsman (or woman). She is a citizen (civis) of Koło. It is the 3rd Declension adjective.

1793

Add: “born on the second of the same month.” (2 ejusdem natam). Everything else is good.

1799

Julianna is a maiden of/from Koło. Same 3rd Declension adjective as in the first record in the series.

dnowicki
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Latin Translation

kenkoziol wrote:

Hi kenkoziol,

The translation follows. I hope that it helps you.

All the best,

Dave

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the year): 8

Col. 2: Annus et Dies Copulationis = Year and Day of the Marriage: 1875 the 16th day of October

Col. 3: Nomen Scerdotis Copulantis = Name of the Priest Marrying (the Couple): The same

Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Copulatorum, locus habitationis, conditio et professio et utrum copulatio in ecclesia vel in aedibus privatis subsecuta = The first and surnames of those marrying, (their) place of residence, condition/status/occupation and profession and whether the marriage followed in a church or in private building (literally: halls): Wojciech Makowski , a bachelor (a servant) with Jadwiga Zamęczak, a maiden (a servant), each from the village of Miłosławice, blessed in the church.

Col. 5: Utrum in matrimonio jam vixere nec non utrum sub tutela parentum vel tutorum adhoc existant = Whether they (i.e. the contracting parties) have already lived in marriage (i.e. whether one or both had been married previously) or if not whether to this point they lived under the charge of their parents or guardians: No

Col. 6: Aetas = Age
Col. 6a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: 23
Col. 6b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: 25

Col. 7: Religio = Religion
Col. 7a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: Catholic
Col. 7b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: Catholic

Col. 8: Consensus Parentum vel Tutorum = The Consent of the Parents or the Guardians: Each with their own consent. He with his father’s (consent); she with the consent of her parents

Col. 9: Proclamatio Banorum = Announcement of the Banns: The 20th, 21st, (&) 22nd Sundays (after Pentecost)

Col. 10: Dispensatio a proclamatione = Dispensation from announcement/announcements (of the banns): None

Col. 11: Testes = Witnesses: Antoni Konasinski, a day laborer* from the village of Budziejewo; Franciszek Kupiclara(?) a day laborer* from the village of Miescisko

Col. 12: Adnotationes = Notations: Blank

Note: *operarius/day laborer: one who worked for a daily wage when needed.

cpkaway

Joined: 21 Jan 2024
Replies: 25
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:25 pm Post subject: Maryan Przybylski and Maria Hirt 1901.02.02 Marriage in Lwow

Hi Dave,

Thank you very much for your help with this document. It is unfortunate that the quality of the image is so poor.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the difficulty in translating many of these "white collar" jobs. I assume the hired scribe, with a limited knowledge of Latin, would have difficulty describing some of these occupations and used words which made sense to him. In the case of my document, he even had to enter the occupations of the witnesses in Polish because, no doubt, his limited Latin failed him. (It is unfortunate that there were not more farmers, bakers, and bricklayers in the family tree!)

Best regards
Chris

TedMack

Joined: 12 Jun 2020
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:01 am Post subject: Latin Record Translation

G'day Dave

Thanks for checking my translations. I have a few more from the same family, if you can check these when time permits please. There are a couple of words I couldn't make out.

Parish – Koło – 1801
#30 Bliznia Wies (left column)
Body of entry: on the 28th of April 1801 I Piotr Kujewski baptized an infant named Katarzyna Józefata daughter born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni Szmayda and his wife Małgorzata. Godparents industrious Tomasz Szurgot and noble Zofia Woyniczowna, all from Blizna.

Parish – Koło – 1803
#59 Bliznia Wies (left column)
Body of entry: on the 24th of July 1803 (?) (?) Antoni Kaszkowski (?) (?) baptized an infant named Maria Magdalena daughter born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni and Małgorzata Szmaydow (Szmayda). Godparents upright Sebastian Laskiewicz from Przedmieście and Marianna Wrzeszczowa from Nagórna.

Parish – Koło – 1806
#30 Bliznia Wies (left column) - Checked for female in right column.
Body of entry: on the 8th of May, Father Mikołaj Kulczycki (?) (?) baptized an infant named Zofia daughter born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni and Małgorzata Szmaydow (Szmayda). Godparents industrious Szymon Szperka and Barbara Kotkowska, all from Blizna.

Parish – Koło – 1807
#30 Bliznia Wies (left column) - Checked for female in right column.
Body of entry: on the 2nd of May, I Piotr Kujewski baptized an infant named Katarzyna daughter born of the legitimate marriage of the industrious Antoni and Małgorzata Szmaydow (Szmayda). Godparents industrious Joźef Soyka and Marianna Fabichowa.

Cheers
Ted

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