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cpkaway



Joined: 21 Jan 2024
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:58 am      Post subject: Re: 1903 Przemysl marriage record
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Hello Ted,

I was hoping you would reply to my query posted on March 10 before Ted's.
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=66569#66569

Regards
Chris
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who



Joined: 12 Dec 2018
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 2:21 am      Post subject:
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Thanks Dave!! always greatly thankful for your help!!


dnowicki wrote:
who wrote:
Hello!

I got the latin transcription of a record of the baptism of an adult Jewish woman who converted to Roman Catholicism in 1778. This event took place in St. Leonard's Church at the Liw from the Liw Parish (Masovian Voivodeship). I assume this location because there are no other churches in this parish, meaning the baptism could only have occurred in that specific church.

However, I've noticed that at the beginning of each baptism record (not limited to this one), a different town from the parish is always mentioned. I believe this detail is related to the individual's connection to that place, such as their birthplace, residence, etc.

Given this pattern, should I infer that the person mentioned in the record had a significant relationship with the town stated at the beginning of the record based on your experience?

Thanks!!


Hi,

In the case of infants the location named at the top is usually the place of birth. In the case of adult converts is usually the place of residence which may or may not be the place where the person was born. I hope this helps you.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave
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peplinskil



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Post Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:00 pm      Post subject: Baptism of Petrus Nicodem(?)
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Dave,
I would like to ask for your insight once again. The attached document may include references to my 5X great-grandparents, a level which I have not been able to uncover thus far. It feels like a bit of a long shot, but I thought I would ask your help.

The specific baptism record of note begins at the bottom of the first column, and continues at the top of the second column. The child Petrus is, I think, identified as the son of Mathai & Hedvigis Nicodemow??? The surname in particular is perplexing to me. Written on the last line of the page, I am not sure if the letters even constitute a surname, or if those letters mean something else. Futher, the wording may not even begin with the letter "N," alternatively it could be an H, F, or something else.

The spelling of my ancestral family surname ranged from Mikodyn to Nikodem with untold variations, and probably derived from the given names Nicodemus or Nicholaus/Mikołaj. I do know that my 4X great-grandfather had a brother named Petrus/Piotr, and that he was born at about this time. The record is from 1746, and is sloppily written (although fortunately not as faded as some of the records). The parish is Ludomy in west-central Poland (near Poznań), and the village name is Sierakówko.

If you see the possibility that the surname could indeed be Nicodem, can you please provide a translation?

Also, can you enlighten me a bit on what seems to be the Orthodox faith referenced in this record. Is it Eastern Orthodox? Or just Catholic? For a couple of years (1744-1746), these records seem to use the terms Orthodox, Lutheran, and "Evangelich" to distinguish most everyone; whereas, starting in 1747, everyone seems to be Catholic or Lutheran (with references to Orthodox and Evangelich disappearing). What does your experience suggest?

Thank you so much for your consideration,

Lee



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herb43



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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 3:23 am      Post subject: Latin record
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Please translate
Brzezinski, Francis



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:46 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin record
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herb43 wrote:
Please translate
Brzezinski, Francis


Herb,

The translation follows.

Dave

Newark New Jersey on the 8th day of June 1901:

Certificate of burial.

In the year of Our Lord 1893 on the second day of May Francis/Franciszek Brzezinski, a man 70 years of age, born in Poland, died suddenly without having been prepared with the sacraments.

In testimony of which… etc.

Signature of the Rector of the parish.

Seal of Saint Stanislaus Roman Catholic Church Newark New Jersey
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:49 pm      Post subject: Re: Baptism of Petrus Nicodem(?)
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peplinskil wrote:
Dave,
I would like to ask for your insight once again. The attached document may include references to my 5X great-grandparents, a level which I have not been able to uncover thus far. It feels like a bit of a long shot, but I thought I would ask your help.

The specific baptism record of note begins at the bottom of the first column, and continues at the top of the second column. The child Petrus is, I think, identified as the son of Mathai & Hedvigis Nicodemow??? The surname in particular is perplexing to me. Written on the last line of the page, I am not sure if the letters even constitute a surname, or if those letters mean something else. Futher, the wording may not even begin with the letter "N," alternatively it could be an H, F, or something else.

The spelling of my ancestral family surname ranged from Mikodyn to Nikodem with untold variations, and probably derived from the given names Nicodemus or Nicholaus/Mikołaj. I do know that my 4X great-grandfather had a brother named Petrus/Piotr, and that he was born at about this time. The record is from 1746, and is sloppily written (although fortunately not as faded as some of the records). The parish is Ludomy in west-central Poland (near Poznań), and the village name is Sierakówko.

If you see the possibility that the surname could indeed be Nicodem, can you please provide a translation?

Also, can you enlighten me a bit on what seems to be the Orthodox faith referenced in this record. Is it Eastern Orthodox? Or just Catholic? For a couple of years (1744-1746), these records seem to use the terms Orthodox, Lutheran, and "Evangelich" to distinguish most everyone; whereas, starting in 1747, everyone seems to be Catholic or Lutheran (with references to Orthodox and Evangelich disappearing). What does your experience suggest?

Thank you so much for your consideration,

Lee


Hi Lee,

I see the first letter of the surname as N So I believe that it is the record for which you have been searching. The translation will follow.

Some historical background…
Two dynasties rule Poland the Piast Dynasty and the Jagellonian Dynasty which began with the marriage of Jadwiga (of the Piasts) to Jagello of Lithuania. The last king of the Jagellonian Dynasty was Zygmunt August. During that period the union of Poland and Lithuania was a personal union since the king of Poland was also the Grand Duke of Lithuania. Zygmunt August had no heir and thus prior to his death in 1572 the union of the two nations was fomalized and no longer personal. Following the death of Zygmunt August until the Third Partition in 1795 the kings of Poland were elected by the nobility and most were not Polish. In in 1746 the king of Poland was August III of Saxony. During most of the 18th century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth was in decline which culminated in its complete dismemberment.

The nobility elected the king and determined much of the course of the nation by means of the laws and policies enacted by the Diet. Poland became a “Republic of Nobles” governed by constitutional laws. Although this was a very liberal political experiment in Europe at that time, the peasantry had no share in the determination of the government of the nation. During this period Poland remained free of the worst of the religious turmoil which so often preoccupied much of Europe. Although a majority of Poles were and are Roman or Greek Catholic, a spirit of religious tolerance held sway in the Royal Republic. Poland operated on the principle that none shall be persecuted or punished because of differences in faith. This attitude was aptly expressed by King Zygmunt August, who was asked to settle a Protestant–Catholic dispute, when he said: “I am king of the people, not the judge of their consciences.” This spirit attracted a large number of refugees from religious persecution during the history of Poland before the Partitions: Jews in the Thirteenth Century, Hussites in the Fifteenth, Mennonites from Holland in the Sixteenth, and Catholics from England and Scotland during the Sixteenth and Seventeenth centuries. To these may be added members of other religious groups who reside in the Commonwealth for centuries: Orthodox mainly in the eastern provinces, also a small Muslim population also in the eastern regions, and Protestants, mainly but not exclusively in the western provinces.

At its greatest extent in 1618 the Commonwealth encompassed approximately 1,000,000 square kilometers (c. 387,000 square miles) with a population of about 12 million people, which was composed roughly of 4.5 million Poles, 3.5 million Ukrainians, 1.5 million Belarusians, 0.75 million Lithuanians, 0.75 million Old Prussians 0.5 million Jews, and 0.5 million Livonians.

Poland, as a multi-ethnic and multi-religious society, had a long tradition of religious freedom. The right to worship freely was a basic right given to all inhabitants of the Commonwealth throughout the 15th and early 16th century. Complete freedom of religion was officially recognized in Poland in 1573 during the Warsaw Confederation and was made a constitutional right in the Henrician Articles which were adopted prior to the coronation of the first elected monarch, Henry of Valois. Poland kept religious freedom laws during an era when religious persecution was an everyday occurrence in the rest of Europe. The religious affiliation breakdown of the Commonwealth was approximately 40% Catholic, 40% Orthodox, and 20% Jewish, Protestant and Muslim.

Back to the final part of your question...Also, can you enlighten me a bit on what seems to be the Orthodox faith referenced in this record. Is it Eastern Orthodox? Or just Catholic? For a couple of years (1744-1746), these records seem to use the terms Orthodox, Lutheran, and "Evangelich" to distinguish most everyone; whereas, starting in 1747, everyone seems to be Catholic or Lutheran (with references to Orthodox and Evangelich disappearing). What does your experience suggest?

I would say that it is what we call Orthodox, A church which is made up of a number of subcategories such as Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic, etc., etc. Evangelical is not really the same as what are known as evangelicals here in the USA at the current time but was frequently used as a synonym for Protestants in general and Lutherans in particular because of --their emphasis on individual reading and interpretation of the Bible. It would seem that the disappearance of orthodox beginning in 1747 is simply due to the fact that the number of Orthodox Christians in that part of the Commonwealth was rather small. Because of its proximity to -Germany the largest group of Protestants were of the Lutheran faith.

Since my ancestors going back to the last quarter of the 17th Century were all from what it what today is Kujawsko–Pomorskie and Wielkopolskie and although all my ancestors were Roman Catholic, I do have considerable experience with the religious breakdown of the area. The most valuable resource for the villages and ---parishes of the area is the Slownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego. (Here is a link to the entry for Ludomy:
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_V/469

Within villages I have never found examples of segregation based on religious affiliation. A village may have a population of 180 individuals who lived in 10 -houses in the religious breakdown was 179 Catholics and one Protestant AKA Lutheran. To me it defies belief that the one Lutheran had a home of his own and all the Catholics lived in the other nine houses so it would seem that individuals could peacefully coexist in the same home despite religious differences. This is really quite different from research which I did on my late sister-in-law’s ancestry. Some of her ancestors were Polish but others were German Lutherans who are actually Germans from Russia. Czarina Catherine II, who herself was German, published edicts in 1762 and 1763 inviting Germans to settle in Russia along the Volga River, an area which was sparsely populated. A large number of colonies came into existence on both banks of the river. These colonies were segregated by religion. Some were Catholic colonies and others were Lutheran and the two did not mix. There was a major exodus of the descendants of the original colonists which took place during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Enough of that since it does not mirror what went on in the Commonwealth.

I hope that this long answer helps to provide insight regarding your ancestors and to some degree answers your questions.

Wishing you continued successful research,
Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:53 pm      Post subject: Re: Baptism of Petrus Nicodem(?)
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dnowicki wrote:
peplinskil wrote:
Dave,
I would like to ask for your insight once again. The attached document may include references to my 5X great-grandparents, a level which I have not been able to uncover thus far. It feels like a bit of a long shot, but I thought I would ask your help.

The specific baptism record of note begins at the bottom of the first column, and continues at the top of the second column. The child Petrus is, I think, identified as the son of Mathai & Hedvigis Nicodemow??? The surname in particular is perplexing to me. Written on the last line of the page, I am not sure if the letters even constitute a surname, or if those letters mean something else. Futher, the wording may not even begin with the letter "N," alternatively it could be an H, F, or something else.

The spelling of my ancestral family surname ranged from Mikodyn to Nikodem with untold variations, and probably derived from the given names Nicodemus or Nicholaus/Mikołaj. I do know that my 4X great-grandfather had a brother named Petrus/Piotr, and that he was born at about this time. The record is from 1746, and is sloppily written (although fortunately not as faded as some of the records). The parish is Ludomy in west-central Poland (near Poznań), and the village name is Sierakówko.

If you see the possibility that the surname could indeed be Nicodem, can you please provide a translation?

Also, can you enlighten me a bit on what seems to be the Orthodox faith referenced in this record. Is it Eastern Orthodox? Or just Catholic? For a couple of years (1744-1746), these records seem to use the terms Orthodox, Lutheran, and "Evangelich" to distinguish most everyone; whereas, starting in 1747, everyone seems to be Catholic or Lutheran (with references to Orthodox and Evangelich disappearing). What does your experience suggest?

Thank you so much for your consideration,

Lee


Hi Lee,

I see the first letter of the surname as N So I believe that it is the record for which you have been searching. The translation will follow tomorrow.

Some historical background…
Two dynasties rule Poland the Piast Dynasty and the Jagellonian Dynasty which began with the marriage of Jadwiga (of the Piasts) to Jagello of Lithuania. The last king of the Jagellonian Dynasty was Zygmunt August. During that period the union of Poland and Lithuania was a personal union since the king of Poland was also the Grand Duke of Lithuania. Zygmunt August had no heir and thus prior to his death in 1572 the union of the two nations was fomalized and no longer personal. Following the death of Zygmunt August until the Third Partition in 1795 the kings of Poland were elected by the nobility and most were not Polish. In in 1746 the king of Poland was August III of Saxony. During most of the 18th century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth was in decline which culminated in its complete dismemberment.

The nobility elected the king and determined much of the course of the nation by means of the laws and policies enacted by the Diet. Poland became a “Republic of Nobles” governed by constitutional laws. Although this was a very liberal political experiment in Europe at that time, the peasantry had no share in the determination of the government of the nation. During this period Poland remained free of the worst of the religious turmoil which so often preoccupied much of Europe. Although a majority of Poles were and are Roman or Greek Catholic, a spirit of religious tolerance held sway in the Royal Republic. Poland operated on the principle that none shall be persecuted or punished because of differences in faith. This attitude was aptly expressed by King Zygmunt August, who was asked to settle a Protestant–Catholic dispute, when he said: “I am king of the people, not the judge of their consciences.” This spirit attracted a large number of refugees from religious persecution during the history of Poland before the Partitions: Jews in the Thirteenth Century, Hussites in the Fifteenth, Mennonites from Holland in the Sixteenth, and Catholics from England and Scotland during the Sixteenth and Seventeenth centuries. To these may be added members of other religious groups who reside in the Commonwealth for centuries: Orthodox mainly in the eastern provinces, also a small Muslim population also in the eastern regions, and Protestants, mainly but not exclusively in the western provinces.

At its greatest extent in 1618 the Commonwealth encompassed approximately 1,000,000 square kilometers (c. 387,000 square miles) with a population of about 12 million people, which was composed roughly of 4.5 million Poles, 3.5 million Ukrainians, 1.5 million Belarusians, 0.75 million Lithuanians, 0.75 million Old Prussians 0.5 million Jews, and 0.5 million Livonians.

Poland, as a multi-ethnic and multi-religious society, had a long tradition of religious freedom. The right to worship freely was a basic right given to all inhabitants of the Commonwealth throughout the 15th and early 16th century. Complete freedom of religion was officially recognized in Poland in 1573 during the Warsaw Confederation and was made a constitutional right in the Henrician Articles which were adopted prior to the coronation of the first elected monarch, Henry of Valois. Poland kept religious freedom laws during an era when religious persecution was an everyday occurrence in the rest of Europe. The religious affiliation breakdown of the Commonwealth was approximately 40% Catholic, 40% Orthodox, and 20% Jewish, Protestant and Muslim.

Back to the final part of your question...Also, can you enlighten me a bit on what seems to be the Orthodox faith referenced in this record. Is it Eastern Orthodox? Or just Catholic? For a couple of years (1744-1746), these records seem to use the terms Orthodox, Lutheran, and "Evangelich" to distinguish most everyone; whereas, starting in 1747, everyone seems to be Catholic or Lutheran (with references to Orthodox and Evangelich disappearing). What does your experience suggest?

I would say that it is what we call Orthodox, A church which is made up of a number of subcategories such as Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic, etc., etc. Evangelical is not really the same as what are known as evangelicals here in the USA at the current time but was frequently used as a synonym for Protestants in general and Lutherans in particular because of --their emphasis on individual reading and interpretation of the Bible. It would seem that the disappearance of orthodox beginning in 1747 is simply due to the fact that the number of Orthodox Christians in that part of the Commonwealth was rather small. Because of its proximity to -Germany the largest group of Protestants were of the Lutheran faith.

Since my ancestors going back to the last quarter of the 17th Century were all from what it what today is Kujawsko–Pomorskie and Wielkopolskie and although all my ancestors were Roman Catholic, I do have considerable experience with the religious breakdown of the area. The most valuable resource for the villages and ---parishes of the area is the Slownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego. (Here is a link to the entry for Ludomy:
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_V/469

Within villages I have never found examples of segregation based on religious affiliation. A village may have a population of 180 individuals who lived in 10 -houses in the religious breakdown was 179 Catholics and one Protestant AKA Lutheran. To me it defies belief that the one Lutheran had a home of his own and all the Catholics lived in the other nine houses so it would seem that individuals could peacefully coexist in the same home despite religious differences. This is really quite different from research which I did on my late sister-in-law’s ancestry. Some of her ancestors were Polish but others were German Lutherans who are actually Germans from Russia. Czarina Catherine II, who herself was German, published edicts in 1762 and 1763 inviting Germans to settle in Russia along the Volga River, an area which was sparsely populated. A large number of colonies came into existence on both banks of the river. These colonies were segregated by religion. Some were Catholic colonies and others were Lutheran and the two did not mix. There was a major exodus of the descendants of the original colonists which took place during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Enough of that since it does not mirror what went on in the Commonwealth.

I hope that this long answer helps to provide insight regarding your ancestors and to some degree answers your questions.

Wishing you continued successful research,
Dave
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TedMack



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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:58 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

Hope you are well and enjoyed the offerings over Easter. I too am very fond of ham, kielbasa, eggs and homemade baked goods, throw in some kapusta to top things off. Hopefully your chilli peppers have sprouted and are ready to be transplanted, although not sure if the weather permits.

Thanks for your reply the other week, I missed when you first posted it and only saw it earlier this week. Those explanations are most helpful. I have a few more for the same family, this time Baptisms and deaths. Will need to split them even though they are only a line or two. As usual when time permits or when you get the inclination.

I'll start with the B&B's - the Ławiński's must have been in the know with the gentry, or they all drank at their inn as I did struggle with some of the titles of the gentry:

par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – begins in the year of our Lord 1778 (?) [not sure of the ending - that would be the "mus" you explained before, this looks like "vus"]
Mycielin
Body of entry: on the 4th January I, Józef Grzegorz Ciemski, Canon (?) (?), baptised the infant born of the married couple Andrzej Ławiński and Marianna from Mycielin, she was given the name Agnieszka. Godparents, well-born Jan Martynski, Estate Manager, Kościelec, and Helena Otuska (?) (?) from Słuszków.


par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1779
Mycielin
Body of entry: on the 14th August, I as mentioned above baptised the infant born on the 13th of the same month of the married couple Andrzej Ławiński and Marianna Józefowna from Mycielin, she was given the name Helena. Godparents, honourable pan Jan Kruszewski, regent (????) , Kościelec, and Salomea Otuska, maiden, daughter of the honourable pani Otuska (?) (?) from Słuszków.

par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1782
Mycielin
Body of entry: on the 22nd January, I as mentioned above baptised the infant born on the 17th of the same month of the married couple Andrzej Ławiński and Marianna, to whom was given the name Maciej. Godparents, (?) young Jan (?) Janicki, organist from Kościelec and the noble Maryanna Złotnicka.

par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1784
Mycielin (there appears to be 2 records, one for the 22nd April as well - the 22nd appears first and then the 19th about 4 entries later?)
Body of entry: on the 19th April, baptised an infant, he was named Wojciech of the married couple Andrzej Ławiński and Marianna, female innkeeper from Mycielin, Godparents, well born Joachim Kurczewski and Salomea Otuska, maiden, from Cekow Parish ?

Cheers
Ted



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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:18 am      Post subject: Latin Record Translation
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G'day Dave

This is the balance of those B&B and a couple of deaths.

Cheers
Ted

par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1787
Mycielin
Body of entry: on the 21st September, I as mentioned above baptised the infant born of the married couple Andrzej and Marianna Ławiński, female innkeeper, to whom was given the name Tekla. Godparents, his honour Maciej Łuczycki heir to all of Mycielin and Barbara Satczynska consent ??

par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1789
Mycielin
Body of entry: on the 11th October, I Grzegorz Ciemski (K.K.K. ?) baptised the infant born of the married couple Andrzej Ławiński and Marianna, female innkeeper, to whom was given the name Marcin. Godparents, Maciej Łuczycki master of the commoners of Brześć Kujawski and heir to all of Mycielin ? ? and the honourable Pani Katarzyna Kruszewka wife of his honour ????? from the village Kościelec.


par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1791
Mycielin
Body of entry: on 24th February died Marcin son of Andrzej Ławiński, one year old and was buried in the church under the altar.

par. Kościelec (Kalisz) – 1821
30 Mycielin
Body of entry: In the year 1821 on the 12th July was buried in the cemetery in the village of Mycielin, Marianna Ławiński who died on the 12th at 9 in the morning, age 47, fortified with the Sacraments.



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TedMack



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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:20 am      Post subject: Re: 1903 Przemysl marriage record
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cpkaway wrote:
Hello Ted,

I was hoping you would reply to my query posted on March 10 before Ted's.
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=66569#66569

Regards
Chris


G'day Dave

Finally poor Chris addressed this to me sometime ago, and I think it is for you.

Cheers
Ted
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:16 am      Post subject: Re: Baptism of Petrus Nicodem(?)
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[quote="dnowicki"]

I see the first letter of the surname as N So I believe that it is the record for which you have been searching. The translation will follow tomorrow.

Lee,

Here is the translation.

Dave

Top of Entry: 1746 June

Left Margin: Sierakówko

Body of Entry: I, the same who is above, in the same year on the 5th day (of June) baptized an infant to whom I gave the name Piotr, the son of the marriage of the Orthodox Faith* of Mateusz** and Jadwiga Nicodem***, self-sustaining farmers**** and peasants/serfs***** from the same village. The sponsors (aka godparents) were Józef Malaczin(?) from the pants (?) workshop****** in Ludomy and Maryanna******* Kołodziej******** from Sierakówko.

Notes: * Orthodoxæ Fidei: Most likely the parents were Eastern Orthodox. The Orthodox split from the Roman Catholics in the Great Schism of 1054 when the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope of Rome excommunicated each other. The reason was a word added to the Nicene and Creed by the Church of Rome, filioque (and from the Son). This section of the Creed refers to the origin (Spiration) of the Holy Spirit. The original text of the Nicene Creed (325 AD) had the Spirit coming from the Father. The Western (Roman) Church added “and from the Son” without consulting the Eastern Church. The Orthodox Church is made up of somewhere around 20 patriarchates including the Greek (Constantinople), the Russian, the Coptic etc., etc. The Greek Catholics found in records mainly from the south of Poland and from what is today Ukraine was an Orthodox Church which reunited with the Roman Church. So far so good… however it is also remotely possible that the words refer to Catholics since the word orthodox in Greek means true teaching. I think I would go with the idea that they were Eastern Orthodox.

**Mathæi: Genitive Singular of Mathæus (Mateusz/Matthew) not to be confused with Mathiae, the Genitive Singular of Mathias (Maciej).

***Nicodemów: Polish Genitive Plural. The surname Nicodem stands in apposition with the Latin Genitive Singulars Mathæi & Hedwigis. Since Latin and Polish share many of the same cases it was customary to put the Polish surname into the same case as the Latin given names.

****Cmethonum: Genitive Plural of Cmetho, a self sustaining farmer (Polish: kmieć), who was at the top of the ladder in the hierarchy of peasants in terms of the amount of land controlled/worked.

*****subditorum: Genitive Plural of Subditus (peasant/serf) who was bound to provide service to the local noble landowner.

******a palaty fabrica/pants (?) workshop: palaty is a Polish word inserted into the Latin text. Priests were accustomed to insert Polish words into the Latin text when they either did not know the correct Latin term or were unsure of which term to use. In 17th and 18th century records the most common Polish substitute for a Latin word was “chałupnik” (cottager) in place of the Latin coterius or tugurinus. In order to determine the correct meaning of palaty it is necessary understand the meaning of the word in the context of mid 18th century Polish vocabulary. A contemporary Polish dictionary generally will not work. The first comprehensive general Polish dictionary was produced by Samuel Bogumil Linde in 1807. The next important Polish 19th century dictionary, the so-called Słownik Warszawski, was produced at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries. These two are the go-to dictionaries for finding the correct meaning of words used during that time. Since a good number of words used at that time are not found in contemporary Polish dictionaries consulting those older dictionaries is absolutely necessary. In this case Linde’s dictionary is of no help since he defines palaty in terms of taste. The later Słownik Warszawski defines palaty as “spodnie” (pants). This is the word which makes the most sense in the context however it is not possible to be certain that the word was used with that meaning in the 1746 entry.

*******Maryanna: Although the spelling of the name after the Polish spelling reforms of the 20th century is Marianna, I prefer to use the older spelling for the sake of historical accuracy.

********Kołodzicianka: The suffix –cianka was an old Polish suffix used for unmarriaed females/maidens. In contemporary usage her surname would be written as Kołodziej.
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MartaMisiaszek



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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:50 pm      Post subject: Translate Latin
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I am very curious about this record, my husbands great grand mother was listed as a god parent?


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peplinskil



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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:25 pm      Post subject: Re: Baptism of Petrus Nicodem(?)
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Hi Dave,

Thank you very much for all the historical background and the thoughtful translation. You always go above and beyond, and it is greatly appreciated as I am trying to really understand what the lives of these people were like, rather than just filling in boxes on my family tree.

I enjoyed the historical persective on religious tolerance and diversity in Poland. I was aware of some of it, but never thought in terms of breakdown across the Commonwealth, and how it changed over time. The link to the Slownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego was also a bit of a revelation for me. I was aware of that resource but had not really dug into it before.

I agree with your assessment in the translated record that they did indeed intend to distinguish the Orthodox faith from Catholic. But that detail leaves me flummoxed as to whether these are were truly my ancestors. From the time that I can pick up the trail of the family more conclusively, starting in 1766, the family is always identified as Catholic. I guess it is reasonable to think that the family may have recently arrived in the Ludomy area around 1746, and that they assimiliated their religious faith over the next twenty years. The Orthodox faith seems to have faded overall in the area around Ludomy per later records that I have copies of, or at least the Orthodox faith was not noted in those records. In the 1880 Slownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego for Ludomy, all of the inhabitants are broken down into either Catholic or Evangelical/Lutheran.

There is also an inconistency with the surname, Nicodem in 1746 and then Mikodyn from 1766 for many years thereafter (before the family eventually morphed the name to Nikodym or Nikodem much later).

Anyway, I am digressing into my own research. Let me just thank you once again for all your hard work and insights.

Lee
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:26 am      Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation
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TedMack wrote:
G'day Dave

This is the balance of those B&B and a couple of deaths.

Cheers
Ted


Hi Ted,

It will probably be a few weeks before I look at your translations. This is a busy time with other hobbies like gardening. It is still not time to plant out tender vegetation such as peppers and tomatoes. Last night the temperature was well below freezing for about 4 or 5 hours. Now everything is still being cared for in the greenhouse. The safe time to plant tender vegetation outdoors is not until after mid-May. There is also an ongoing genealogy project for my grand niece and nephew and somehow everything seems to take longer with each passing year.

I’ll get to it when I have the opportunity and the ambition. In the meantime keep up the good work.

Vale,

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:31 am      Post subject: Re: Baptism of Petrus Nicodem(?)
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peplinskil wrote:
Hi Dave,

Thank you very much for all the historical background and the thoughtful translation. You always go above and beyond, and it is greatly appreciated as I am trying to really understand what the lives of these people were like, rather than just filling in boxes on my family tree.

I enjoyed the historical persective on religious tolerance and diversity in Poland. I was aware of some of it, but never thought in terms of breakdown across the Commonwealth, and how it changed over time. The link to the Slownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego was also a bit of a revelation for me. I was aware of that resource but had not really dug into it before.

I agree with your assessment in the translated record that they did indeed intend to distinguish the Orthodox faith from Catholic. But that detail leaves me flummoxed as to whether these are were truly my ancestors. From the time that I can pick up the trail of the family more conclusively, starting in 1766, the family is always identified as Catholic. I guess it is reasonable to think that the family may have recently arrived in the Ludomy area around 1746, and that they assimiliated their religious faith over the next twenty years. The Orthodox faith seems to have faded overall in the area around Ludomy per later records that I have copies of, or at least the Orthodox faith was not noted in those records. In the 1880 Slownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego for Ludomy, all of the inhabitants are broken down into either Catholic or Evangelical/Lutheran.

There is also an inconistency with the surname, Nicodem in 1746 and then Mikodyn from 1766 for many years thereafter (before the family eventually morphed the name to Nikodym or Nikodem much later).

Anyway, I am digressing into my own research. Let me just thank you once again for all your hard work and insights.

Lee


Hi Lee,

I completely agree that the important thing in doing family history is not just to accumulate names and dates but to understand as much as possible the lives of our ancestors.

As far as the changes in the surname are concerned that is probably not a biggie. Keep in mind that during the 18th century not all Polish peasants had or used surnames and if they did the names were rather fluid and often were modified. Discontinued on into the 19th century.

Dave
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