Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:10 am
Post subject:
Dave: Thank you again for your translations. I have another question about a child of the unfortunate Adalbert Wujek (he lost four of his eight children and his wife between 1799 and 1803). Can you tell me the cause of death for Laurentius? wuness
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2841
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 12:09 pm
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Dave: Thank you again for your translations. I have another question about a child of the unfortunate Adalbert Wujek (he lost four of his eight children and his wife between 1799 and 1803). Can you tell me the cause of death for Laurentius? wuness |
Hi wunwss,
The translation of the entry follows. The answer to the question of the cause of death is not very satisfactory. In order to better understand what life was like in the “good old days” I have always found that the Słownik geograficzny http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/ provides valuable info. Also, pictures from regional outdoor museums (Skanseny) help to visualize living conditions from the “good old days”.
I hope that what follows helps.
Dave
Translation:
On the 25th day the infant Wawrzyniec was buried; he died on the 23rd; whose parents were Wojciech and Maryanna Wuiek, a tenant; cause of death was glires*; 2 months of age; his parents are living.
*glires: the nominative plural of glis, gliris, m. doormouse. The ancient Romans considered doormice a culinary delicacy. After the Roman invasion of Britain the Romans imported the species from mainland Europe since the species was not native to the British Isles. The “delicacy” was cooked and eaten bones and all...sounds disgusting. Back to the “cause of death”… I did some reading about glires and learned that in scientific circles glires (the plural) describes mammals—mostly rodents (mice, hamsters, squirrels, etc. but also including lagomorphs (rabbits, hares, etc.) The mention of hares reminds me of one of the Epigrams of Martial (Marcus Valerius Martialis c. AD 40-c.103) in which he reminds a woman named Gellia of the superstition that if a woman ate a hare she would become beautiful for 7 days. The punch line: Obviously, Gellia, you have never eaten a hare.—so much for ancient Roman humor...but back to the main topic...Did Stanisław die from a rodent bite? Possibly. Or from a bite from a parasite carried by a rodent? Possibly. Or from something else? Who can say? What likely is true is that the living conditions were probably not the most sanitary and thus probably contributed to his death.
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 5:23 pm
Post subject:
Thank you Dave. I've attached a birth record for Agnes Slomian, daughter of Mathias and Magdalena (line #1). The Index note says the year is 1824, but I don't recognize that date anywhere, nor do I recognize a month or date. Can you provide the date of her birth? wuness
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2841
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2024 5:31 pm
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Thank you Dave. I've attached a birth record for Agnes Slomian, daughter of Mathias and Magdalena (line #1). The Index note says the year is 1824, but I don't recognize that date anywhere, nor do I recognize a month or date. Can you provide the date of her birth? wuness |
Hi wuness,
The information you want is all found in the three columns of the first major division of the record under the title “Nativitas” (Birth). The column headings point the way to the information. Here is the road map: Col. 1: Annus et Mensis (Year & Month); Col. 2: Dies (Day); Col. 3: Hora (Hour) Of Birth is understood.
The same is true of the Baptismal information. The major division is “Infantis” (of the infant) Subdivision 1: Baptismi (of the Baptism). Subdivisions of Subdivision 1:
Annus et Mensis (Year and Month); Dies (Day). Subdivision 2: Nomen (Name).
The Latin text of Nativitas: Col.1: Annus et Mensis: Millesimus = One Thousandth;
Octingentesimus = Eight Hundrerdth; Vigesimus Quartus = Twenty-fourth; (Month) = Januarius = January. The Latin in Col. 2: (Dies/Day): prima = the first. The Latin in Col. 3: Hora: Sexta mane = The sixth in the morning. Summary: She was born in the year 1824 on the first day of January at 6 a. m. The Latin info for the date of the baptism is the same as that for the birth with the exception of the hour. She was baptized on January 1, 1824.
The columnar format is not apropos for entering data in Latin longhand. The words don’t fit the column space in terms of width without being hyphenated albeit without the use of a hyphen. The data is not reader friendly in that the data is entered using Latin ordinal numbers, which results in a cumbersome entry.
The entry of year, month & day using Ordinal numbers was commonly used in the short paragraph form of entry. It fit that format well. The columnar format was intended and designed to make it easy to locate the data in a record without having to wade through wordy text. In this instance the intent was not achieved.
Classical Latin, like English, had both Cardinal and Ordinal Numerals. Cardinal Numerals in Latin were Unus, Una, Unum (One), Duo, Duae, Duo (Two), Tres, Tria (Three), etc. The Ordinals were Primus, a, um (First), Secundus, a, um (Second), Tertius, a, um (Third), etc. The first three Cardinals had masculine, feminine, and neuter forms. The Cardinal from Quattuor (Four) to 199 had only one form which was used for all three genders and cases. The Cardinals from two hundred nine hundred were declined like plural adjectives. The Ordinals all were adjectives and were declined like and used First & Second Declension endings. Of course, there was no Zero since the concept of Zero was introduced by the Arabs centuries later. Western Civilization owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to the Arabic Civilization for Zero since it facilitates advanced mathematical operations. Simple operations like, addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are easy using Arabic Numerals. I can’t imagine doing those operations using Roman Numerals. Roman Numerals increased their value by placing bars over the letter. One bar increased the value by 1,000; two bars by a million, etc. Some examples...XXV equals 25; XXV with one bar equals 25,000; XXV with two bars equals 25,000,000 and so on. Somehow it seems that being an accountant in ancient Rome was not easy.
Attached are three PDFs from sheets which I created half a lifetime ago when teaching Latin morphology and grammar. Perhaps they may come in handy but there is a caveat. The spelling of the larger Ordinals varied and may or may not be exactly what you find in a Latin baptism, marriage, or death & burial record. As an added bonus attached is an extra credit sheet we gave to the scholars providing an opportunity to convert large Roman Numerals to Arabic Numerals for fun and a higher grade.
I hope that somewhere in all this you can find the answer to your question.
Dave
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 5:41 pm
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Dave: Thank you for your recent reply. As always, interesting and informative.
Moving on to another branch of my Polish family, Piotr Stasik married Monica Mackowianka in 1808. The death notice I'm attaching indicates she died in 1819 (item 15). Can you tell me more about her (i.e., birth, death, locations, etc.)
After her death, he married Hedwig in the same year, 1819. Can you give me the date of their marriage? wuness
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2841
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2024 12:42 am
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | Dave: Thank you for your recent reply. As always, interesting and informative.
Moving on to another branch of my Polish family, Piotr Stasik married Monica Mackowianka in 1808. The death notice I'm attaching indicates she died in 1819 (item 15). Can you tell me more about her (i.e., birth, death, locations, etc.)
After her death, he married Hedwig in the same year, 1819. Can you give me the date of their marriage? wuness |
wuness,
Monika’s record technically is considered a record of Xian burial since it is an ecclesiastical rather than a civil record so only some of what you are looking for is found there. It really is a primary source only for death & burial related info.
Here is what is in the record.
Place of Death: Garby in house #15
Date of Death: July 20 (die vigesima mensis Julij) at 9 in the evening (hora nona vespere)
Date of Burial: July 22 (die vigesima secunda mensis Julij)
Wife of Piotr Stasik (uxorem Petri Satsik)
Maiden Name: Macko (de domo Macko)
Age: 35 (natam annos trigenta quinque)
Fortified by all the Sacraments (omnibus Sacramentis munitam)
Cause of death: Consumption (morbo Suchoty{the name of the disease is in Polish}). Consumption aka tuberculosis was known by a variety of names. In English it was frequently known as The Wasting Sickness. It was quite common during the 19th and early 20th Centuries both in Europe & America. Wyatt Earp’s sidekick at the OK Corral, Doc Holliday, died of the disease. Prior to the discovery of antibiotics there was no effective treatment for the disease.
The date of the marriage of Piotr & Jadwiga was November 7, 1819 (Anno Domini Millesimo Octingentissimo Decimo Nono vero Die Septima Mensis Novembris). Note that the spelling of 800th is a variation of the standard spelling. The verbiage at the beginning of the entry deals with the legalities of the announcement of the banns and that no impediment had been discovred. However, the entry also includes info about the groom—his age, names of his parents, etc. Since you mentioned the marriage of Piotr & Monika I’ll not bother spelling out the details since you should already have that info. If not, speak now or forever hold your peace, as ministers are wont to say before a wedding ceremony.
Dave
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cpkaway
Joined: 21 Jan 2024
Replies: 29
Location: CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:25 am
Post subject: 1896 Lwow marriage record
Can anyone decipher the words in bold and fix my translation? Original:
https://tsdial.archives.gov.ua/EA%20pdf/618/618-2-2447.pdf
page 55, bottom right, entry 6
Sponsus:
Joannes Motak magister szkola ad seminarium pædag. viduus po?t pd. Carolinam Theresiam Kwiatkowska, oriandus ex Chronów, distr. Bochnia, filius Joannes et Julia Sułok
Jan Motak school teacher at seminary ????. widower po?t of deceased Karolina Teresa Kwiatkowska; originally from Chronów, district Bochnia, son of Jan [Motak] and Julia Sułok
Testes:
Ladislaus Przybylski consiliarius ???g. judicii apc. later??
Władysław Przybylski, judicial advisor ?????
Remarks:
Habitis: testimoniis baptismi amborum sponsorum, testimonio mortis prioris uxoris sponsi, testimonio bannorum pro sponso, licentia patris pro minorani sponsa:
Ja ojciec, pozwalam mojej małoletniej córce, Jadwidze Sewerynia, zaślubić p. Jana Motaka i na to wobec powyższych świadków własnoręcznie się podpisuje:
Władysław Kropiński, proclamatis tribus bannis huic Matrimonio benedixit:
?????: proof of the baptism of both sponsors, proof of the death of the first wife of the bridegroom, proof of bans for the bridegroom, permission of the father for the minor bride:
I, the father, give my consent to my minor daughter, Jadwiga Seweryna, to marry Mr. Jan Motak and in the presence of the above witnesses I sign this with my own hand:
Władysław Kropiński, having proclaimed three bans, blessed this marriage:
Thank you
Chris
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2841
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 10:40 am
Post subject: Re: 1896 Lwow marriage record
| cpkaway wrote: | Can anyone decipher the words in bold and fix my translation? Original:
https://tsdial.archives.gov.ua/EA%20pdf/618/618-2-2447.pdf
page 55, bottom right, entry 6
Sponsus:
Joannes Motak magister szkola ad seminarium pædag. viduus po?t pd. Carolinam Theresiam Kwiatkowska, oriandus ex Chronów, distr. Bochnia, filius Joannes et Julia Sułok
Jan Motak school teacher at seminary ????. widower po?t of deceased Karolina Teresa Kwiatkowska; originally from Chronów, district Bochnia, son of Jan [Motak] and Julia Sułok
Testes:
Ladislaus Przybylski consiliarius ???g. judicii apc. later??
Władysław Przybylski, judicial advisor ?????
Remarks:
Habitis: testimoniis baptismi amborum sponsorum, testimonio mortis prioris uxoris sponsi, testimonio bannorum pro sponso, licentia patris pro minorani sponsa:
Ja ojciec, pozwalam mojej małoletniej córce, Jadwidze Sewerynia, zaślubić p. Jana Motaka i na to wobec powyższych świadków własnoręcznie się podpisuje:
Władysław Kropiński, proclamatis tribus bannis huic Matrimonio benedixit:
?????: proof of the baptism of both sponsors, proof of the death of the first wife of the bridegroom, proof of bans for the bridegroom, permission of the father for the minor bride:
I, the father, give my consent to my minor daughter, Jadwiga Seweryna, to marry Mr. Jan Motak and in the presence of the above witnesses I sign this with my own hand:
Władysław Kropiński, having proclaimed three bans, blessed this marriage:
Thank you
Chris |
Chris,
Corrections/additions are in Upper Case type. The permission quote in Polish is pure bureaucratic fiction. The father of the bride was not there when the scribe who was hired by the pastor was composing the text. It is much more likely that the priest asked him if he gave his permission and he answered with a simple Yes. The abbreviations in the witnesses section are not readily understandable since they are locality specific or possibly scribe specific. The text which begins with "habitis" is one long Ablative Absolute. To help clarify the text I broke up the parts and titled them A), B). etc. Habitis is the Ablative Plural of the Perfect Passive Participle of the verb habeo. habere. habui, habitum, to have. Ablative Absolutes are often well translated as subordinate clauses
The corrections/additions follow.
Dave
Sponsus:
Joannes Motak magister SCHOLÆ ad seminarium* pædagGAGUS viduus POST pd. Carolinam Theresiam Kwiatkowska, oriandus ex Chronów, distr. Bochnia, filius Joannes et Julia Sułok
Jan Motak school/CLASSROOM teacher, INSTRUCTOR at A seminary* widower AFTER THE deceased/LATE Karolina Teresa Kwiatkowska; originally from Chronów, district Bochnia, son of Jan [Motak] and Julia Sułok
Testes:
Ladislaus Przybylski consiliarius ???g. judicii apc. later??
Władysław Przybylski, TRIAL/INVESTIGATION advisor/COUNSELOR/ADVISER?????
Remarks:
Habitis: testimoniis baptismi amborum sponsorum, testimonio mortis prioris uxoris sponsi, testimonio bannorum pro sponso, licentia patris pro minorani sponsa:
Ja ojciec, pozwalam mojej małoletniej córce, Jadwidze Sewerynia, zaślubić p. Jana Motaka i na to wobec powyższych świadków własnoręcznie się podpisuję:
(SIGNATURE) Władysław Kropiński
proclamatis tribus bannis, huic Matrimonio benedixit: STANISLAUS SZYMAŁA, COOPERATOR.
HAVING BEEN HAD: A) proof of the baptism of both sponsors, B) proof of the death of the PRIOR wife of the bridegroom, C) proof of bans for the bridegroom, {&} D) permission of the father for the minor bride:
I, the father, give my consent to my minor daughter, Jadwiga Seweryna, to marry Mr. Jan Motak and in the presence of the above witnesses I sign this with my own hand:
(SIGNATURE) Władysław Kropiński
THE three banns HAVING BEEN PROCLAIMED BEFOREHAND, STANISŁAW SZYMAŁA, THE ASSISTANT PASTOR, blessed this marriage.
Note: seminarium/seminary: The word has more than one meaning. It is basically a preparatory school. Here it most likely refers to a prep secondary school meant to prepare a student for University or possibly for a career. When my maternal uncle was studying for the priesthood in Chicago he did his undergrad and grad studies during the 1920s at the University of St. Mary of the Lake (Universitas Sanctae Mariae ad Lacum) in Mundelein, Illinois. It was commonly known as Mundelein Seminary. Originally the town had the imaginative name of Area. When my uncle was studying there the number of student of voting age outnumbered the voters in the town. The students organized a write in campaign and elected the seminary groundskeeper, who was illiterate, as sheriff—didn’t go over well with the locals—he resigned as soon as he was elected. George Cardinal Mundelein, the Archbishop of Chi-town donated a fire engine to the town to smooth things over and lo and behold the town name was changed from Area to Mundelein.
The seminary in the record is most certainly not a school preparing students for the priesthood.
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cpkaway
Joined: 21 Jan 2024
Replies: 29
Location: CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:51 pm
Post subject: Re: 1896 Lwow marriage record
Hi Dave,
Thank you very much for your quick reply with detailed explanations and simple-to-follow corrections of my attempt at the record.
I enjoyed your story about the students electing the groundskeeper. It reminded me of when I was at university and a group of engineering students joined a club for followers of Enver Hoxha (the communist Albanian dictator). They voted to shut down the club and donate all the funds to charity.
Chris
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:41 pm
Post subject:
Dave: Thank you for your recent translation of Monica Mackowianka's death notice. You indicate that her maiden name is Macko. Could Macko/Mackowianka be the name of a previous husband. I can't find much about her, but the information I have suggests her father was Matthew Lis. wuness
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2841
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:49 pm
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Dave: Thank you for your recent translation of Monica Mackowianka's death notice. You indicate that her maiden name is Macko. Could Macko/Mackowianka be the name of a previous husband. I can't find much about her, but the information I have suggests her father was Matthew Lis. wuness |
Wuness,
The text of the death record in line 4 reads “de domo Macko”. The meaning od “de domo” is “from home” which can only mean that Macko is being given as her maiden name. Re: Mackowianka— the old feminine suffix -ianka was only used for women who had not been married. The suffix for a married woman was -iaka so if it were the name of a previous husband the name would appear as Mackowiaka. There is no reason to interpret what is written as anything other than her maiden name. Even as late as the first quarter of the 19th Century surnames were mutable and sometimes did change radically. Here is an example. One of my maternal ancestors who died in 1805 was a cartwright. During his lifetime he was known by the occupational surnames of .Stelmaszek and sometimes simply as Stelmach. For about ten years after his death his widow and children were known as Stelmaszek. Then they adopted the patronymic surname Kajetaniak, which was derived from his given name, Kajetan. In order to sort out the info you have and to reconcile it with Macko/Mackowianka you need to do some digging but you can definitely rest assured that Macko/Mackowianka was her maiden name and not the name of a previous husband. William “Fred” Hoffman in his book Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings states that surnames beginning in “Mac” can be derived from the given names Maciej and/or Mateusz. Perhaps that may be the primrose path to follow to reconcile Mateusz/Matthew Lis with Macko.
Wishing you success,
Dave
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:52 pm
Post subject: Marriage records traslation
I'm kindly requesting the translation of the 1885 marriage records of Jan Kalkowski and Franciszka Dybalski from Slupca. I believe this record is on the right hand side of the attached image.
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1127
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Marriage records traslation
| JohnKP wrote: | | I'm kindly requesting the translation of the 1885 marriage records of Jan Kalkowski and Franciszka Dybalski from Slupca. I believe this record is on the right hand side of the attached image. |
Hi,
It's not Latin. Add this record to "Russian records translations p.2"
Regards,
-Barb
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:33 am
Post subject: Re: Marriage records traslation
| BarbOslo wrote: | | JohnKP wrote: | | I'm kindly requesting the translation of the 1885 marriage records of Jan Kalkowski and Franciszka Dybalski from Slupca. I believe this record is on the right hand side of the attached image. |
Hi,
It's not Latin. Add this record to "Russian records translations p.2"
Regards,
-Barb |
Thank you for the correction!
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:59 pm
Post subject:
Can you please translate the cause of death for Stephan Bulinski (#31)? I can't quite make out the spelling. It was apparently common. Thank you. wuness
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