Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:09 am
Post subject:
This is the marriage registration for my grandparents. It would make me very happy if somone could translate this for me. Please and thank you.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:41 pm
Post subject:
Carol,
The form used to record the marriage comes from marriage registers used in many Catholic Parishes from about 1880 into the early years of the 20th Century. I don't remember which religious publisher sold this particular form of marriage register. The printed Latin text includes elements which the Catholic Church considers essential for a valid and licit marriage and does not include many things which we might wish had been included. The Church where the marriage took place and the year of the marriage would be found in the full title of the record from which this entry was taken. The Latin is clear and simple to translate, however, I am not sure of the spelling of the surnames of the witnesses and of the priest which is a question of the priest's handwriting. I used the Polish version of the first names along with the English version in parentheses. The translation follows:
February 5. I the undersigned, the three banns (of marriage) having been promulgated beforehand and the mutual consent of those to be united having been received, through the words of the present marriage (ritual), joined in matrimony Wincenty (Vincent) Baczyk, age 29, from Newark, NJ, the son of Franciszek (Francis) and Anna (Baczyk) and Florentyna (Florence) Chmielewska from Newark NJ, the daughter of Maciej (Matthias) and Eleanora (Eleanore) (Chmielewski) in the presence of the witnesses Konstanty (Constantine) Torzycki (?) (and) Stanislaw (Stanislaus) Teznawski (?).
Signed: Rev. W. F. Mak....(?)
Hope this is helpful.
Dave
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:21 pm
Post subject:
Thank you so much for your translation. I was able to locate one important elements that I was not able to determine previously. what was the name of my grand mother's father. everyone always thought his first name was Matthew. according to the records however it was msthias. thank you very much I hope this opens another door. god bless and thank you again carol
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:56 pm
Post subject:
Carol,
Thanks for mentioning that everyone thought his name was Matthew. As I look at the record a second time, I believe that Matthew was what the priest was writing. There is not much difference in Latin between Matthew and Mathias. Matthew is Matthaeus, Matthaei and Mathias is Mathias, Mathiae. I won't bore you with an explanation of what the changes in the forms of the names mean. What the priest wrote was Mathei which strictly speaking is not correct. For Matthew the form should have been Matthaei but he dropped one t and substituted e for the diphthong ae which is something that is not all that uncommon in later Latin. I looked at it too quickly and thought he had written the form for Mathias (Mathie) which while not strictly correct would have been a possibility. I guess the bottom line is that I made a mistake in seeing what I thought he had written and part of the blame falls upon the priest for incorrect spelling, but It seems that his name really was Matthew. Sorry for the error. In the future I will be more careful especially with incorrectly spelled words.
Dave
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:54 am
Post subject:
To dnowicki,
Thanks for the tip on the records I posted. I will need to go back to the LDS for the other pages, as I was only matching the numbers at that time. I will repost when I get them. In the meantime, could you translate the column headings for me on the page I did post?
Thanks
Dave
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:57 am
Post subject:
Dave,
When you look for the record of the death of Stanislaus on the first page of deaths for the year 1817 ignore the numbers and simply look for his name. Also, it appears that the image you posted was created with a digital camera. If you could increase the resolution, it would give you a clearer image---especially when zooming in on the image.
I will type the Latin for the column headings followed by the English translation. Where the priest used abbreviations I will complete the Latin word in parentheses.
Hope this will help you.
Dave
Column headings for page 4:
Column 1: Numerus Mortuorum = Number of the deceased
Column 2: Nomina Villarum = Names of the Villages (where the deaths took place)
Column 3: An(no) Dom(imi) Millesimo Octingentesimo Decimo Septimo 1817= In the Year of Our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred Seventeen 1817 (Here the priest wrote the year in the format of the longhand ordinal number followed by the Arabic numeral.)
Column 4: Nomina Cognomina Mortuorum, Status, Cohabitatio, Professio ac Parentes an vivant, dies obitus, aetas, mensis ac casus mortis = The first and last names of the deceased, (their) status (i.e. noble, peasant, etc.) Cohabitation (i.e. whether married), Profession/occupation, and parents, if they are living, day of death, age, month and cause of death.
Heading on index page:
Cathologus seu index mortuorum a 1ma (=prima) Martij ad ultima Decembris Anni 1817 Duplicati Judicialiter Depositi = The Catalog or index of those deceased from March First to the last (day) of December of the year 1817 Duplicated and Deposited according to the law.
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:00 pm
Post subject: records
Called the archdioses of newark and they referred me to he archives in the dioses which is going to try and locate the long version of their marriage certificate, wish me luck. Carol[/code][/list]
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:17 pm
Post subject:
Carol,
If you receive any Latin records from the diocese of Newark, I'll be glad to translate them for you.
Best of success in your search.
Dave
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kcarnleyPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 16 May 2012
Replies: 22
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:38 am
Post subject:
I would appreciate a translation of this marriage record. The groom appears to be a relative I did not expect to see in this set of records.
Thanks,
Keith
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| Jan Czajkowski marriage in Kurdwanowka. |
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:42 pm
Post subject:
Keith,
The Latin is pretty straightforward and easy to translate. However, I'm not so confident with names of persons and places since I'm not sufficiently familiar with the priest's handwriting to determine all the letters in personal and place names. Also, I cannot tell you with certitude what the information recorded in the various columns is meant to contain. If you would like to post a copy of the full page the contents of each column should be listed at the top of the page which I would be happy to translate to clarify the exact meaning of each entry. E.G. in column 3 the heading should clarify what the numbers 29/33 signify. The translation will appear on a separate page followed by a digression on the whys and wherefores of Latin marriage records.
Just curious---why did you not expect the groom to appear in these records?
Dave
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NOTE REGARDING CONTENTS OF ECCLESIASTICAL MARRIAGE.pdf |
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Marriage record translation.pdf |
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kcarnleyPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 16 May 2012
Replies: 22
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:31 pm
Post subject:
Dave,
The original image was too large for attachment. Cropped it down to fit.
My research has been focused on Dobropole. My great grandfather, Turkiewicz, and great grandmother, Czajkowska, were from this village. My great great grandfather, Andrzej Turkiewicz, claimed on his ship manifest he was born in Dobropole but he is not listed in the birth records. I decided to take it to the next step and start searching the surrounding parishes. That is why I was surprised to run across this Jan Czajkowski from Dobropole getting married in Kurdwanowka. That family name wasn't the focus of my hunt.
Thanks for your assistance,
Keith
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:19 am
Post subject:
Keith,
The reason Jan was married there even though he was from Dobropole was that Catholic Church law (Canon Law) stipulated that marriages were to take place in the parish of the bride. The motivation for this requirement was to give every parish priest an equal opportunity to get his share of weddings. Obviously some priests were more popular than others and the popular ones would be the ones who were asked to bless the most marriages. Since the offering for weddings was part of the income of the pastor of the parish this rule assured all a more or less equal opportunity to receive wedding offerings. Of course, the pastor of the parish of the bride could and did give his permission for the marriage to take place in another parish but the couple would have to ask him for that permission.
The headings do help to confirm and clarify the intended meaning of the entries in the various columns. Looking at the other entries also confirms the reason for the judicial permission recorded in the notation---the civil permission was required because of the age of the bride and her legal status as a minor. The other two brides on the page were also minors and required the same permission and the priest makes the reason for the notation of legal permission clear for the other two by the addition of the adjective minor to those notations. The meaning of the heading and of each column is:
Heading: Liber Copulatorum Pag(ina)792 = Book of Marriages Page 792
Top division of columns: (Year) 1895; Sponsus=Groom; Sponsa=Bride; Testes=Witnesses
Subdivisions of year column: Numerus positionis=Number of placement; Mensis=Month; Numerus domus=Number of the house (29 for the groom and 33 for the bride)
Subdivisions of the Groom's column: Nomen=Name (Here the priest included the groom's parents, his place of birth and place of residence; Religio=Religion; Coelebs=Bachelor; Viduus=widower; Aetas=Age (Here the priest entered the date of birth rather than a calculation of age.)
Subdivisions of the Bride's column: Nomen=Name (Same info as for groom); Religio=Religion; Coelebs="Bachelorette"; Vidua=Widow; Aetas=Age (Same info as for groom)
Witnesses' Column: Nomen et Conditio= Name and Condition (which means social status/profession/occupation).
I hope this info confirms what you already know. If you ever have any Latin records you would like translated, I'll be happy to translate them. Best of success in your search for Andrzej's birth record.
Dave
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kcarnleyPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 16 May 2012
Replies: 22
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:14 am
Post subject:
Dave,
Very helpful. I've never seen mention of the parish of the bride rule. Also explains when strolling through marriage records, sometimes I see very lengthy notes added and other times nothing.
Thanks again,
Keith
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:23 am
Post subject: Baptismal records possibly in German or Latin...
I have two baptismal records possibly in German or Latin...
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:12 am
Post subject:
Bill,
The records are both in Latin. I presume the name in the last column is that of the priest who baptized them. To be certain it would be necessary to see a scan of the top of the page with the headings of the columns. The translations follow:
For Maryanna:
Col. 1: Date of Baptism: March 11 of the current year (Year should be listed at top of page or on the first page where the records for the year begin.)
Col. 2: Name & Date of Birth: Maryanna born on the 9th of the same month & year (March 9)
Col. 3: Parents: Michal/Michael Lempek, an inhabitant (i.e. a tenant in the village where the birth occurred) (and) Maryanna ? (entry not clear) Legally married in the Catholic Church
Col. 4: Sponsors: Marcin/Martin and Ewa/Eve Poniewaszowie
Col. 5: Priest Baptizing (?): Grotki
For Samuel:
Col. 1: Date of Baptism: November 29 of the same (year)
Col. 2: Name and Date of Birth: Samuel born on the 23rd of the same (month [i.e. November] and year)
Col. 3: Parents: Michal/Michael Lempek, an inhabitant (tenant) & Maryanna nee Dunkiewicz legally married in the Catholic Church
Col. 4: Sponsors: Samuel Lempek & Katarzyna/Catherine Dunkiewicz
Col. 5: Priest Baptizing (?): Klemens/Clement Lenek
I'm sure you noted the years for both records.
Best of success in your research.
Dave
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