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Latin records translations
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gpblaney



Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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Post Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:09 pm      Post subject:
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Interesting, does this context imply whether Gabriel is still alive at this point? Also since Gabrielis is really Gabreil does that mean names like Michaelis are really just the polish version of Micheal?
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Mountain Path



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Post Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 7:12 am      Post subject: Baptismal Record Translation Request
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Please find attached a copy of my grandmother's Baptismal record (Anna Pyclik)...it is in Latin from what I can tell. I think I have translated everything correctly but I would really welcome another translation from someone much more expert than I to make sure. Thank you so much to anyone who can help me with this.


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:22 am      Post subject:
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gpblaney wrote:
Interesting, does this context imply whether Gabriel is still alive at this point? Also since Gabrielis is really Gabreil does that mean names like Michaelis are really just the polish version of Micheal?


Hi,

Yes the wording does imply that Gabriel survived his wife. If Gabriel were deceased the record would been phrased, for example, vidua p.d. (the widow after the late...) or olim uxor (formerly the wife of...).

Michaelis is Latin and is not Polish for Michael. The Polish version of that name is Michał.

Attached is a list of Latin given names with their English and Polish equivalents, which has been posted before at various times. It is not exhaustive and is a work in progress in that it contains names I've encountered when translating records and additional names are added as they are encountered. Perhaps you may find the list useful.

Several notes regarding the Latin versions of the names...The Latin version is followed by a comma and letters like "i". "ii", "ae", "is" and then followed by a comma and either "m." or "f." Latin nouns change endings to indicate how the noun is being used in a sentence. The first form is the Nominative (Subject) form. The letters after the comma give the Genitive (Possessive) ending of the name. The letters "m" or "f" indicate the gender of the noun. This is the standard format in which Latin nouns appear in a dictionary. The Genitive is given to show the Declension (There are 5 Declensions in Latin.) to which the noun belongs, which is important to properly recognize the Case (Technically there are 6 Cases in Latin, although the Vocative is the same as the Nominative except in "us" nouns of the Second Declension.) as it appears in a sentence.

Since you asked about the name Michael...You'll notice in the list of names that the Latin name appears as Michaël. The dots above the "e" are technically known as a dieresis (also spelled diaeresis) aka trema aka umlaut. What this diacritic indicates is the the letters "ae" are not a diphthong (i.e. pronounced as one syllable) but actually form two separate syllables and thus are pronounced as two distinct vowels/syllables. The name Michael is Biblical/Hebrew in origin and the Latin pronunciation follows the Biblical pronunciation whereas the English does not. The "el" part of the name is one way Hebrew referred to God without speaking his name. Thus Michaël means "Who is like God?" and Gabriël means "God is my strength" and Raphaël means "God has healed", etc., etc.

Sometimes the name will appear in records as Michaël and sometimes as Michael, sometimes with and sometimes without the dieresis. It is no big deal but just depends on how detail oriented the priest/scribe was.

Hope this clarifies rather than confuses.

Dave



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:44 pm      Post subject: Re: Baptismal Record Translation Request
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Mountain Path wrote:
Please find attached a copy of my grandmother's Baptismal record (Anna Pyclik)...it is in Latin from what I can tell. I think I have translated everything correctly but I would really welcome another translation from someone much more expert than I to make sure. Thank you so much to anyone who can help me with this.


Mountain Path,

If you would kindly post your translation I would be happy to make any necessary corrections, additions, explanations, and comments.

Thank you.

Dave
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Mountain Path



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Post Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:58 pm      Post subject: Baptismal Record Translation Request
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Thank you...

I have her DOB - 12/23/1893 and Baptismal Date 12/24/1893
Father's name: Josephus Pyclik
Son of: Felicis(Felix?) Pyclik and Rosalia Firlej

Mother's Name: Rosalia Goryl
Daughter of: Josef Goryl and Marianna Cebrat

I am not sure what the agr. means after their names.

Grandparents: Andrzej Walaszek and Marianna Goryl

Then there is the notation: Bapt. (which I am thinking means Baptized) and a name Joannes Kos (or Hos) and then the words " luralus loci" I "think" loci is location?

There also seems to be the notation that this was a "legal" birth but I can't make out the other words noted across those columns.
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gpblaney



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Post Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:00 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks for the given names Dave! just updated a few of my family tree names accordingly.
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:52 am      Post subject: Re: Baptismal Record Translation Request
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Mountain Path wrote:
Thank you...

I have her DOB - 12/23/1893 and Baptismal Date 12/24/1893
Father's name: Josephus Pyclik
Son of: Felicis(Felix?) Pyclik and Rosalia Firlej

Mother's Name: Rosalia Goryl
Daughter of: Josef Goryl and Marianna Cebrat

I am not sure what the agr. means after their names.

Grandparents: Andrzej Walaszek and Marianna Goryl

Then there is the notation: Bapt. (which I am thinking means Baptized) and a name Joannes Kos (or Hos) and then the words " luralus loci" I "think" loci is location?

There also seems to be the notation that this was a "legal" birth but I can't make out the other words noted across those columns.


Hi Mountain Path,

You did a good job extracting much of the important information found in the record but a few tweaks would help to clarify what you’ve extracted and there is also additional information which you’ve not listed. The first column records the number of the birth in sequence for the year 1893. This data is important when you list the source of the information you record in your genealogy program. The entry is number 47. The dates of birth & baptism are correct. The next column lists the house number where the birth took place---data of less import but something you may want to record. The next column obviously gives the child’s name. The following columns with their subdivisions deal with the religion, gender and legitimacy of the child---Catholic, feminine, legitimate. The notation in those columns is definitely of less importance. It records the name of the midwife who assisted at Anna’s birth and contains many abbreviations before the name of the midwife (obs. n. ex.). The abbreviations stand for “obstetrix non examinata” which means “The non-examined midwife (was) Anna Stasiak.” There were two types of midwives in late 19th Century Galicia: approved and non-examined. It appears that there was an attempt to require that midwives be able to demonstrate their knowledge and skill---definitely a good thing. I do not know any of the particulars of the “licensing” of midwives in Galicia. A note on the formation of certain letters---lower case “t” is not crossed. The notation which appears in columns 1-7 reads in full form: “Bapt(isavit) Joannes Kos curatus loci” which is translated as: Jan Kos, the curate of (this) place, baptized (her). The English word “location” is derived from the Latin locus, loci which in its most basic meaning is “place”. Again, the uncrossed ts can cause confusion and also this data is certainly far from crucial.

The names are basically correct but need some tweaking to give them in their proper Polish form. Josephus is Jόzef; Felix is Feliks; Rosalia is Rozalia. Marianna is the way that name is spelled in contemporary Polish but in the 19th Century the spelling was Maryanna. This is not a major point but it is a good idea to decide whether you want to enter the name in its contemporary spelling or as it was spelled in 1893. The “n.” between the given and the surname of the grandparents of Anna stands for “natae” or “born” which clarifies that the surname was the woman’s maiden name. The agr. stands for agricolae and lists their status/occupation as farmers. The “patrini” are not grandparents but are the sponsors, commonly called godparents. The final column gives their occupation. Again, they are farmers. Returning to Felix…The reason the name appears as “Felicis” is because it is the Genitive Singular of that name. Felix is the Nominative but the stem for all the other cases changes to “Felic” to which the case endings are added.

Perhaps you may find the PDF (Given Names-Latin, English-Polish) which is attached to an earlier post on this page of the Forum helpful in the future. You also may find the attached PDF birth template helpful in the future. I devised it as a “fill in the blanks” form to help eliminate repetitive typing when I translate such records.

Wishing you continued success in your research,

Dave



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rsowa



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Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:43 pm      Post subject: Re: Baptismal Record Translation Request
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dnowicki wrote:
The next column lists the house number where the birth took place---data of less import but something you may want to record.


My 2 cents...absolutely keep track of the house number. I discovered several valuable hints from that number, that added some insight into my ancestors in Poland.

When my great-grandparents had their children in Poland, they were all born in house #15 in Lipnica Murowana. Then they immigrated to America with most of their kids, but one remained behind in Poland with her new husband. You guessed it...they occupied her parents home, and all of THEIR kids were also born in house #15. There was one exception. One of their children was actually born nearby in another house...but it turned out to be the house of her husband's sister...her sister-in-law...the closest family still left in Poland.

While not important for the family tree and genealogy, it's still a fascinating anecdote and worth recording.

Richard
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Mountain Path



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Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:52 am      Post subject: Re: Baptismal Record Translation Request
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Thank you Richard. I did find out that they have now gone to street names, etc. but as it is a smaller village I am hoping that someone will know which house had this number. Who knows...it might still be standing!
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 1:03 pm      Post subject:
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To all users of this thread,

Please check the new Records Translations Guidelines: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=33993#33993 .
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ksmets



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Post Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:39 pm      Post subject: 1900 Marriage Record in Latin
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Can someone help me with the groom's information on this marriage record.

What I can read is the following: Thomas Rusek, agr., viduus post Sophiam natam Zowda ...

It's the last word (or words) that I cannot figure out. I am also not a 100% sure of Sophia's last name. Zowda is not a name I can find in Hoffman's Polish Surnames.

I understand it means,
Quote:
Thomas Rusek, farmer, widower of the now defunct Sophia, born Zowda ...


Thank so much!

Kristine



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ksmets



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Post Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:22 pm      Post subject: 1845 Marriage record from Kanna
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I need another pair of eyes to look at this record. Most importantly, I cannot read the bride's last name, nor the sentence underneath the data. But there are also a few other words I cannot make out. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Kristine


Year: 1845
Month and day: 19 May
SPONSUS
Nrus domus (house number): 50
Nomen: Joannes Gadek, fil. Josephi et Agatha Rys, [???] viduus [???] Marian. Natae Kobas hoc def [???].
Religio: Catholica
Ætas: 42
Viduus
SPONSA
Nomen: Salomea fi. Michaely ??? [sth. dadek?] et Marianna natae Cichow, hortulanus, no. 29
Religio: Catholica
Ætas: 25
Cæleb.
TESTES
Adalbertus Rasie???:
Adamus Woźniák
hortulani



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mrpiano17



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Post Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:34 pm      Post subject: Re: 1845 Marriage record from Kanna
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ksmets wrote:
I need another pair of eyes to look at this record. Most importantly, I cannot read the bride's last name, nor the sentence underneath the data. But there are also a few other words I cannot make out. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Kristine

Hi Kristine,

I can't help with all the words, but the names are as follows: This is the marriage record of Jan Gądek, son of Jozef Gądek and Agata Ryś & Salomea Swiątek daughter of Michał Swiątek and Marianna Cichoński.

Jan is the widower of Marianna Kobuś.

Mike
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ksmets



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Post Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:08 pm      Post subject: Post subject: Re: 1845 Marriage record from Kanna
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This is a big help already! Thank you so much!

Kristine

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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:34 pm      Post subject: Re: 1900 Marriage Record in Latin
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ksmets wrote:
Can someone help me with the groom's information on this marriage record.

What I can read is the following: Thomas Rusek, agr., viduus post Sophiam natam Zowda ...

It's the last word (or words) that I cannot figure out. I am also not a 100% sure of Sophia's last name. Zowda is not a name I can find in Hoffman's Polish Surnames.

I understand it means,
Quote:
Thomas Rusek, farmer, widower of the now defunct Sophia, born Zowda ...


Thank so much!

Kristine


Hi Kristine,

In the marriage of Tomasz Rusek I read his late wife’s maiden name as Zawda, which also does not appear in Hoffman’s book. A thought that occurs to me is that possibly it is a scribal error and the name should read Zawada, which is a rather common surname. The last words are the preposition “e” which means “from” followed by the name of a village, which I’m not able to read.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Dave
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