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Latin records translations
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JE Gardolinski



Joined: 17 Jun 2017
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:13 am      Post subject: Re: Help with mystery baptism registry
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Dear Dave,

Thank you very much for your help and insights! It is indeed a mystery that probably will be part of the family history until we invent time travel... Smile
I will let you know if I find any more clues though.
cheers,

Jose E. F. C. Gardolinski
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deidre



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Replies: 77
Location: slawno,wielkoposkie poland,prussia

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:05 pm      Post subject: Finding Braciszewski records
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Joe,
Thank you for all the info.
I don't know how to use it yet,but I will play around with it.
What I really need is someone to do my paternal family tree for a fair price !
Kind Regards,
Marie [email protected]
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JE Gardolinski



Joined: 17 Jun 2017
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:07 am      Post subject: Wladislaw Witwicki
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Dear Dave,

I will abuse of your good will once more...

Could you shed some light into the Baptism record of Wladislaw Witwicki (1816 Cherniv)?

He was an uncle of my great-grandmother Marcella, the one you already helped me with the translation before...

Beneath the name of his father (Ignaz Witwicki), there are a few words which I cannot decipher. I don't know if it refers to his occupation or the name of his parents. Do you have any clues?

Beneath the child's name there are two words (something and "natus"), also present in all other names on that page . I've never seen this before. The only text beneath the child's name I am used to see is for multiple names (like "binom" or "trinom").

In addition, there are two lines of text at the bottom of the record. It looks longer than usual and I think it mentions that the ceremony was completed on a later date by another priest, does that makes sense?

Unfortunately the quality of the document is, once more, not optimal...

Thank you again for the insights!



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José Eduardo F. C. Gardolinski
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dshizak



Joined: 26 Jul 2012
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:54 pm      Post subject: Thanks
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Dave,

Thanks for the reply. Your theory makes sense.

r/Dave
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:40 pm      Post subject: Re: Wladislaw Witwicki
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JE Gardolinski wrote:
Dear Dave,

I will abuse of your good will once more...

Could you shed some light into the Baptism record of Wladislaw Witwicki (1816 Cherniv)?

He was an uncle of my great-grandmother Marcella, the one you already helped me with the translation before...

Beneath the name of his father (Ignaz Witwicki), there are a few words which I cannot decipher. I don't know if it refers to his occupation or the name of his parents. Do you have any clues?

Beneath the child's name there are two words (something and "natus"), also present in all other names on that page . I've never seen this before. The only text beneath the child's name I am used to see is for multiple names (like "binom" or "trinom").

In addition, there are two lines of text at the bottom of the record. It looks longer than usual and I think it mentions that the ceremony was completed on a later date by another priest, does that makes sense?

Unfortunately the quality of the document is, once more, not optimal...

Thank you again for the insights!


José,

I’m always happy to help whenever I can. Please do not feel that it is an imposition.

The words under the child’s name are “heri natus” which means “born yesterday.” Since he was baptized on June 17th, he would have been born on June 16th.

The words beneath the name of the father do specify his occupation. The important part reads “scriba M(agnifici) D(omi)ni ??onski (followed by his title which is not really legible)”. This means that the father was a clerk/scribe/secretary of his honor ??onski… The Polish version of his employer’s title is “Wielmożny Pan”. This title was used for a member of the gentry (szlachta) who was a government court official. The sponsors are listed as “Nobiles” which in Polish is “szlachetny” and was a title used for a member of the gentry who was an owner or a leaseholder of a parcel of land.

The lines at the bottom of the record state that he was baptized with water (using only the essential part of the rite of baptism) in the place where he was born (indicating that the child was in distress on the day after his birth and it was an “emergency” baptism). The priest who baptized him was the Greek/Eastern Rite Catholic pastor. The child eventually grew stronger and was brought to church where the ceremonies which surround the essential part of the baptismal ritual (i.e. the pouring of water while saying the words of the baptismal formula---“I baptized you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”) were performed on July 4, 1816---201 years ago next Tuesday.

The name of the place (i.e. the parish) is actually a Third Declension adjective ending in -iensis. To determine the name of the place the ending is dropped and you are left with Czerniev. Since w is not used in Latin and v is not used in Polish the vernacular stem of the place name is Czerniew with whatever Polish ending completes the name. I’m not familiar with the geography of the record so I can’t tell you the actual place name. My favorite example of such adjectives is the Latin version of Chicago (where I was born and raised). The Latin is Chicagiensis. Drop the ending and the stem is Chicag. To complete the word, it is necessary to know the geography of the region and then Chicago is the obvious place name. Hopefully, you should be able to determine the actual place name by applying the same methodology to the geography of the area.

Hope this helps.

Dave
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JE Gardolinski



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Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:43 am      Post subject: Wladislaw Witwicki
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Hi Dave,

Once again, thanks a lot for your contribution. I am always amazed how much we can learn from those condensed lines of text from so long ago...

Indeed the place name was Cerniów (today Cherniv, Ukraine), a village 100km southeast of Lviv. Most of my polish ancestors came from that region.

I only hope the child got his strengths back and lived a long life...Looking at those registers it is always sad to see how high infant mortality was.

BTW, Chicagiensis sounds really odd, almost made-up dog latin Smile

cheers,

JE

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JDombrowski89



Joined: 14 Apr 2015
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:25 am      Post subject:
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Dave,

Was wondering if you could translate my Great-Great-Great Grandfather's marriage when you get a chance?

Best,

JD

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JGwizdowski
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Joined: 26 Feb 2016
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:34 pm      Post subject: 1840 Church Records w/Koscinski
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Greetings!

The attached page lists my 2nd g.grandfather Joannes Koscinski as a godparent for four different births. The last listing - record number 21 on the page, has an additional abbreviation following his name. To me, it looks like Org.

I have my own theory about what it means, but would really appreciate an independent analysis.

His name shows up as a godparent with some frequency on other pages.

Thank you for any input!

Best,
Joe



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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:42 pm      Post subject: Koscinski Marriage 1838
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I can fake my way through the major information but, between the script an unfamiliarity with some of the Latin words and meanings in the column headers, would greatly appreciate a translation of the attached marriage record of my 2nd g.grandparents.

Thank you so much!
Joe



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:56 am      Post subject:
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I'm posting this request on behalf of Diedre. She's trying to track down her gg.grandfather Martinus Braciszewski and we can't make out much of the information in the attached marriage record.

I think the record may reference that Martinus may be from Debnica, but I likely am way off.

When you have a chance, would greatly appreciate a full translation of the attached record.

As always, Thank you so much!
Joe



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:48 am      Post subject: Re: Wladislaw Witwicki
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JE Gardolinski wrote:
Hi Dave,

Once again, thanks a lot for your contribution. I am always amazed how much we can learn from those condensed lines of text from so long ago...

Indeed the place name was Cerniów (today Cherniv, Ukraine), a village 100km southeast of Lviv. Most of my polish ancestors came from that region.

I only hope the child got his strengths back and lived a long life...Looking at those registers it is always sad to see how high infant mortality was.

BTW, Chicagiensis sounds really odd, almost made-up dog latin Smile

cheers,

JE


Hi José,

The rate of infant mortality during the 19th Century was indeed quite high. It certainly is sad that so many children never survived to adulthood.

Chicagiensis does sound like something a Latin student, who would say that Latin killed the Romans and now it is killing me, could have made up. Indeed, it is a made up Latin word not seen by the ancient Romans, but not made up by a child pretending to speak Latin. Rather, it was made up years ago by Latin linguists who were following good Latin structure. Although Latin ceased to be the vernacular of any particular group many centuries ago, it lived on as the language of scholarship, diplomacy, and the official language of the R.C. Church for centuries---and, of course, in its direct descendants, the Romance languages. Obviously, over the course of the centuries new words needed to be added to express new realities which did not exist when the last native speaker of Latin died. Linguists continued to produce new Latin words and expressions to cover those developments and still do so now. Two attachments are from documents which belonged to my maternal uncle who was a R.C. priest in Chicago and the link http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/la/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html
is to the Latin copy of the encyclical of Pope Francis on the environment. You may find the way the document speaks of the bishops of Brazil in paragraph 88 to be another example of what appears to be “made up” Latin of particular interest to you.

Vale!

Dave



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:57 am      Post subject: Re: 1840 Church Records w/Koscinski
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

The attached page lists my 2nd g.grandfather Joannes Koscinski as a godparent for four different births. The last listing - record number 21 on the page, has an additional abbreviation following his name. To me, it looks like Org.

I have my own theory about what it means, but would really appreciate an independent analysis.

His name shows up as a godparent with some frequency on other pages.

Thank you for any input!

Best,
Joe


Joe,

The abbreviation “org.” stands for either of two words---organarius, organarii, m. or organista, organistae, m. which are synonyms meaning “organist”. Due to his occupation Jan would have been well known in the parish and his job meant that he spent quite a bit of time around the parish church. Both these factors could go a long way towards explaining the frequency of his serving as a sponsor. An added consideration would be that he must have been a well-liked individual.

Does any of this match up with your theory?

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:59 am      Post subject: Re: Koscinski Marriage 1838
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JGwizdowski wrote:
I can fake my way through the major information but, between the script an unfamiliarity with some of the Latin words and meanings in the column headers, would greatly appreciate a translation of the attached marriage record of my 2nd g.grandparents.

Thank you so much!
Joe


Hi Joe,

Here is the translation of the columnar headings and the data of the marriage record. Hope this clarifies the record for you.

Dave

Col. 1: Number (for the year): 15
Col. 2: Year, Month & Day of the Marriage 1838: November 28, 1838
Col. 3: Given name, surname, condition/status, and (marital) status of the couple: Jan Kościński, a single young man, (&) Maryanna Kromkowna (daughter of Kromka), a maiden, both from Bobrowo
Col. 4: Age
Col. 4a: of the groom: 26
Col. 4b: of the bride: 21
Col. 5: Proclamations (of the banns): The 22nd, 23rd, and 24th Sundays after Pentecost
Col. 6: Given & surnames of the witnesses: Antoni Kras?wicki (&) Henryk Bak (or Bok), administrator (possibly Wojt) of Bobrowo
Col. 7: Priest joining (them in marriage): Pyblewski, the pastor of Bobrowo
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:16 am      Post subject:
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JGwizdowski wrote:
I'm posting this request on behalf of Diedre. She's trying to track down her gg.grandfather Martinus Braciszewski and we can't make out much of the information in the attached marriage record.

I think the record may reference that Martinus may be from Debnica, but I likely am way off.

When you have a chance, would greatly appreciate a full translation of the attached record.

As always, Thank you so much!
Joe


Joe,
Here is the Braciszewski-Koteras marriage translation you requested on behalf of Marie. Translations of the birth & baptism records of Cecylia Koteras and of her sister Maryanna are also found here. Neither Michał nor the Marianna you found are siblings of Cecylia and Maryanna. Her sister Maryanna’s record is on the opposite page from the Maryanna you found.

Vale!

Dave

Marriage Record:

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the year): 17
Col. 2: Annus et Dies Copulationis = Year and Day of the Marriage: Nov. 10, 1849
Col. 3: Nomen Scerdotis Copulantis = Name of the Priest Marrying (the Couple): Ditto
Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Copulatorum, locus habitationis, conditio et professio et utrum copulatio in ecclesia vel in aedibus privatis subsecuta = The first and surnames of those marrying, (their) place of residence, condition/status/occupation and profession and whether the marriage followed in a church or in private building (literally: halls): The industrious* Marcin Braciszewski from the village of Dębnica (&) Cecylia Koteras from the village of Hier????, the daughter of a farmer.
Note: laboriosus/industrious: an adjective used to denote a peasant.
Col. 5: Utrum in matrimonio jam vixere nec non utrum sub tutela parentum vel tutorum adhoc existant = Whether they (i.e. the contracting parties) have already lived in marriage (i.e. whether one or both had been married previously) or if not whether to this point they lived under the charge of their parents or guardians: both grown (emancipated) children
Col. 6: Aetas = Age
Col. 6a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: 25
Col. 6b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: 26
Col. 7: Religio = Religion
Col. 7a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: Catholic
Col. 7b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: Catholic
Col. 8: Consensus Parentum vel Tutorum = The Consent of the Parents or the Guardians: with the consent of the parents
Col. 9: Proclamatio Banorum = Announcement of the Banns: 21st, 22nd, and 23rd Sundays after Pentecost
Col. 10: Dispensatio a proclamatione = Dispensation from announcement/announcements (of the banns): blank
Col. 11: Testes = Witnesses: Piotr Koteras from Hier???owo & Franciszek Brudis(?) from Hier???owo
Col. 12: Adnotationes = Notations: blank

Birth & Baptism Records:

Cecylia:
(Village of) Dziećmiarki #78
On the 21st day of the month of October in the Year of Our Lord1822 I, who (is named) above, baptized an infant by the name of Cecylia, born on the 19th day of October, the daughter of the legitimate marriage of the industrious* Stefan/Szczepan Koteras and Katarzyna Tim. The sponsors were Katarzyna Lazynska, an innkeeper from Dziećmiarki, and Wawrzyniec Bulmanski, a blacksmith/iron worker from Sławno.

Maryanna:
#14; (Village of) Dziećmiarki
On the 11th day of the month of February in the year 1821 I, who (is named) above, baptized a child by the name of Maryanna, the daughter of the legitimate marriage of the industrious* Stefan/Szczepan Koteras, a farmer, and Katarzyna Tim. The sponsors were the industrious* Walenty Tim, a shepherd from Bilawy and Anna Swiątkowa from Sławno.

Note: *laboriosus/industrious was an adjective used to designate an individual as a peasant.
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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:30 am      Post subject: Re: 1840 Church Records w/Koscinski
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dnowicki wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

The attached page lists my 2nd g.grandfather Joannes Koscinski as a godparent for four different births. The last listing - record number 21 on the page, has an additional abbreviation following his name. To me, it looks like Org.

I have my own theory about what it means, but would really appreciate an independent analysis.

His name shows up as a godparent with some frequency on other pages.

Thank you for any input!

Best,
Joe


Joe,

The abbreviation “org.” stands for either of two words---organarius, organarii, m. or organista, organistae, m. which are synonyms meaning “organist”. Due to his occupation Jan would have been well known in the parish and his job meant that he spent quite a bit of time around the parish church. Both these factors could go a long way towards explaining the frequency of his serving as a sponsor. An added consideration would be that he must have been a well-liked individual.

Does any of this match up with your theory?

Dave


Dave:
Your conclusions match exactly with my own! Jan's son, Anton (my g.grandfather) followed in his father's footsteps. There were vague references in the family lore that Anton was a church organist, so when I found Jan's "Org." reference, and your analysis of the same conclusion, it brings the story full circle! All this makes me wonder if the church in Bobrowo is still there... and the organ! I'll have to look into that!

Thank you so much for your insight!
Best Regards,
Joe

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