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Latin records translations
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JGwizdowski



Joined: 26 Feb 2016
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:36 am      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
I'm posting this request on behalf of Diedre. She's trying to track down her gg.grandfather Martinus Braciszewski and we can't make out much of the information in the attached marriage record.

I think the record may reference that Martinus may be from Debnica, but I likely am way off.

When you have a chance, would greatly appreciate a full translation of the attached record.

As always, Thank you so much!
Joe


Joe,
Here is the Braciszewski-Koteras marriage translation you requested on behalf of Marie. Translations of the birth & baptism records of Cecylia Koteras and of her sister Maryanna are also found here. Neither Michał nor the Marianna you found are siblings of Cecylia and Maryanna. Her sister Maryanna’s record is on the opposite page from the Maryanna you found.

Vale!

Dave



Dave...thank you so much, and I'll make sure Marie knows to look for your translation here. Like me, she's on the front end of learning the ropes, and I know she, too appreciates the help!

Gratias tibi!
Joe

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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:39 pm      Post subject: Re: 1840 Church Records w/Koscinski
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[quote="JGwizdowski"][quote="dnowicki"]
JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!



Dave:
Your conclusions match exactly with my own! Jan's son, Anton (my g.grandfather) followed in his father's footsteps. There were vague references in the family lore that Anton was a church organist, so when I found Jan's "Org." reference, and your analysis of the same conclusion, it brings the story full circle! All this makes me wonder if the church in Bobrowo is still there... and the organ! I'll have to look into that!

Thank you so much for your insight!
Best Regards,
Joe


Joe,

You wondered about the church where your ancestor was organist. The current church is the same one that existed during his lifetime---can’t say about the organ. The parish dates from 1251 and the current church was erected in the 1st half of the XVII Century. Of course, there were some renovations and additions over the years. One picture is of the main altar and the other is of the exterior of the church. The parish church is under the patronage of St. James the Apostle (św. Jakuba Apostoła).

Perhaps someday you’ll be able to see the village and the church in person.

Dave



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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:24 pm      Post subject: Re: 1840 Church Records w/Koscinski
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dnowicki wrote:


Joe,

You wondered about the church where your ancestor was organist. The current church is the same one that existed during his lifetime---can’t say about the organ. The parish dates from 1251 and the current church was erected in the 1st half of the XVII Century. Of course, there were some renovations and additions over the years. One picture is of the main altar and the other is of the exterior of the church. The parish church is under the patronage of St. James the Apostle (św. Jakuba Apostoła).

Perhaps someday you’ll be able to see the village and the church in person.

Dave


Beautiful! I love imagining my family attending services, with Anton, and his father before him, bringing the church to life with some majestic organ music.

And yes, my wife and I are already talking about a trip...perhaps in 2019! And I know just the group of great people who can help me plan and accompany us on the journey. Smile

Thanks for everything!
Best,
Joe

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BobJan
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:41 pm      Post subject: Latin translation please
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I know the principles and the date. I am wondering about what comes after the date and before the groom's name. I can't read enough of the handwriting but some of it appears to be about the 4th degree of consanguinity and other things. Can I get a translation of that part.
It is an 1800 marriage record from Bavaria; Massweiler. Signatures in German script, German spelling
Thank you in advance



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:09 am      Post subject: Re: Latin translation please
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BobJan wrote:
I know the principles and the date. I am wondering about what comes after the date and before the groom's name. I can't read enough of the handwriting but some of it appears to be about the 4th degree of consanguinity and other things. Can I get a translation of that part.
It is an 1800 marriage record from Bavaria; Massweiler. Signatures in German script, German spelling
Thank you in advance


Bob,

The entire section is dealing with the legal requirements for a valid church marriage.

The dispensation from consanguinity covers two degrees of consanguinity to cover all potential blood relationships which would require a dispensation. Determining degrees of consanguinity can be rather complex---especially in the more distant degrees.

In the days before convenient transportation options marriages frequently took place on Sundays when people were already present for Sunday Mass. Sometimes the marriage ceremony took place within the parochial Mass, but more often it was held before or after the obligatory Sunday Mass. In this record the marriage ceremony took place before the start of the Sunday Mass.

Anyway here is the translation of the section you asked about:

On the 9th day of February in the Year of Our Lord 1800, after the proclamations of the banns had been announced beforehand, and according to the usage of the church a dispensation from the third to the fourth degree of consanguinity had been obtained for the couple, and since no other impediment had been detected, before the Solemnities of the Mass, were joined in marriage and received the nuptial blessing from me, the undersigned, Mathias, the legitimate son of the late John…etc.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Dave
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BobJan
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:51 am      Post subject: Re: Latin translation please
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dnowicki wrote:
BobJan wrote:
I know the principles and the date. I am wondering about what comes after the date and before the groom's name. I can't read enough of the handwriting but some of it appears to be about the 4th degree of consanguinity and other things. Can I get a translation of that part.
It is an 1800 marriage record from Bavaria; Massweiler. Signatures in German script, German spelling
Thank you in advance


Bob,

The entire section is dealing with the legal requirements for a valid church marriage.

The dispensation from consanguinity covers two degrees of consanguinity to cover all potential blood relationships which would require a dispensation. Determining degrees of consanguinity can be rather complex---especially in the more distant degrees.

In the days before convenient transportation options marriages frequently took place on Sundays when people were already present for Sunday Mass. Sometimes the marriage ceremony took place within the parochial Mass, but more often it was held before or after the obligatory Sunday Mass. In this record the marriage ceremony took place before the start of the Sunday Mass.

Anyway here is the translation of the section you asked about:

On the 9th day of February in the Year of Our Lord 1800, after the proclamations of the banns had been announced beforehand, and according to the usage of the church a dispensation from the third to the fourth degree of consanguinity had been obtained for the couple, and since no other impediment had been detected, before the Solemnities of the Mass, were joined in marriage and received the nuptial blessing from me, the undersigned, Mathias, the legitimate son of the late John…etc.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Dave


Thank you Dave, I have never seen this before in the 100's of records viewed so I assume the mention of this means there is some relationship between the couple. I have all their grandparents so it must be through an earlier generation or a 2nd marriage I am not aware of. BTW, the groom's sister married the bride's brother and the same wording is there also.
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:13 am      Post subject: Re: Latin translation please
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BobJan wrote:
]

Thank you Dave, I have never seen this before in the 100's of records viewed so I assume the mention of this means there is some relationship between the couple. I have all their grandparents so it must be through an earlier generation or a 2nd marriage I am not aware of. BTW, the groom's sister married the bride's brother and the same wording is there also.


Bob,

There is definitely a blood relationship between the two parties and that relationship was within the degrees for which a dispensation could be obtained.

Determining degrees of consanguinity is easy in the direct line but can be more difficult in the collateral lines. The attached chart may give you some ideas of where the blood relationship originated. The link provides a good explanation from the perspective of canon law. The author teaches Canon Law in Rome and has the ability to explain complexities in clear language. Here is the link to “Canon Law Made Easy”.
http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/09/09/can-cousins-marry-in-the-church/

Hope you find the chart and link both useful and interesting.

Dave



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JDombrowski89



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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:05 pm      Post subject:
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Dave,

If you could translate this it would be greatly appreciated.

- Justin


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BobJan
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:15 pm      Post subject: Re: Latin translation please
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dnowicki wrote:
BobJan wrote:
]

Thank you Dave, I have never seen this before in the 100's of records viewed so I assume the mention of this means there is some relationship between the couple. I have all their grandparents so it must be through an earlier generation or a 2nd marriage I am not aware of. BTW, the groom's sister married the bride's brother and the same wording is there also.


Bob,

There is definitely a blood relationship between the two parties and that relationship was within the degrees for which a dispensation could be obtained.

Determining degrees of consanguinity is easy in the direct line but can be more difficult in the collateral lines. The attached chart may give you some ideas of where the blood relationship originated. The link provides a good explanation from the perspective of canon law. The author teaches Canon Law in Rome and has the ability to explain complexities in clear language. Here is the link to “Canon Law Made Easy”.
http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/09/09/can-cousins-marry-in-the-church/

Hope you find the chart and link both useful and interesting.

Dave


Thanx again Dave, this info is useful .... but still confusing.
I cannot make a connection being the spouses so I must be missing a record or two. Seems that it should be through uncle/aunt or grand uncle/aunt. I have a lot of them but no luck making that connection so far. Of course the needed record may not be available. The hunt is never over.
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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:00 pm      Post subject: Is this name Bzdziuch?
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Greetings!

I am having such difficulty reading the script on the attached 1842 death record from Gwizdow... I am unsure if I am seeing the surname as Bzdzichka, and then repeated on the next line in some close variation?

If this is a Bzdziuch record, would greatly appreciate a translation of the content.

Thank you so much!
Joe



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:42 pm      Post subject: Re: Is this name Bzdziuch?
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

I am having such difficulty reading the script on the attached 1842 death record from Gwizdow... I am unsure if I am seeing the surname as Bzdzichka, and then repeated on the next line in some close variation?

If this is a Bzdziuch record, would greatly appreciate a translation of the content.

Thank you so much!
Joe


Joe,

I read the surname of the deceased as Rzeszudko (today's usual spelling would be Rzeszutko. The surname in the last line is that of the priest who officiated at the funeral.

Here is a translation of the body of the entry: "Zofia, the daughter of Kristof/Krzysztof (there are two versions of that given name in Polish) and Maryanna Rzeszudko, tenants."

Hope this helps.

Dave
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Jdewy



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:12 pm      Post subject: deWysocki Wedding
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Dave,

I think I finally figured out how to post this correctly for translation. Thanks for your help.

Jackie



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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:59 pm      Post subject: Re: Is this name Bzdziuch?
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dnowicki wrote:


Joe,

I read the surname of the deceased as Rzeszudko (today's usual spelling would be Rzeszutko. The surname in the last line is that of the priest who officiated at the funeral.

Here is a translation of the body of the entry: "Zofia, the daughter of Kristof/Krzysztof (there are two versions of that given name in Polish) and Maryanna Rzeszudko, tenants."

Hope this helps.

Dave


Thank you, Dave! It is a far cry from Rzeszudko to Bzdziuch, but somehow I managed to see it there. Thanks for setting me straight!
Best,
Joe

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:36 am      Post subject: Re: deWysocki Wedding
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Jdewy wrote:
Dave,

I think I finally figured out how to post this correctly for translation. Thanks for your help.

Jackie


Jackie,

In the translation of the marriage record I’ll render the given names first in Polish followed by their English version. In your post in the Polish Records Section of the forum the document you posted is a description of the coat of arms used by members of the De Wysocki clan. It is not linked to any specific 19th Century individuals. In Latin records members of the szlachta (gentry) are usually recorded with terminology which makes their status clear. There is no such terminology used in the marriage record. However, the meaning of the lack of such terminology cannot be determined from the text of the record alone. In and of itself the lack of such terminology is inconclusive regarding the status of the groom. Perhaps further research will eventually allow you to solve the mystery of why the Polish document was kept.

The R.C. parish in Ujscie is under the patronage of St. Nicholas (św. Mikołaj) and the parish was established in the 12th Century. The current church building was built in 1905-07.

The clauses which in Latin appear near the end of the document are found near the beginning in the English translation. This allows the translation to be rendered in more normal English. The entire record in Latin is made up of two sentences---one a simple declarative sentence regarding the witnesses and the other a complex sentence with subordinate clauses.

Anyway, here is the translation.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Translation: On the 28th day of November, after the three announcements of the banns had been promulgated beforehand on the 23rd, 24th, and 25th Sundays after Pentecost, and since no impediment had been detected, the same as above (i.e. the priest named in earlier records) blessed the marriage contracted between Fryderyk/Frederick Wilhelm/William de Wysocki, a single young man, 29 years of age, from the village of Jankowo in the parish of Strzyzewo and Floryanna Petronela/Petronella(Parnel) Czarnecka, a maiden, 20 years of age in Byszki, the daughter of the already deceased Antoni/Anthony Czarnecki with judicial consent*. The witnesses were Franciszek/Francis Łukaszewski, Maciej/Mathias Kowalski, and Jόzefina/Josephine Łukaszewska.

Note: *Judicial consent was required since her father was deceased and she was still technically a minor.
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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:18 pm      Post subject: 1823 Koscinska death record
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Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe



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