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Latin records translations
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: 7 Days ago at 1:09 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe


Joe,

Is this death record also from the German Partition? That info will help me to understand the columns.

Thanks.

Dave
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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: 6 Days ago at 4:22 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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dnowicki wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe


Joe,

Is this death record also from the German Partition? That info will help me to understand the columns.

Thanks.

Dave


Yes, Dave...this would be in the German partition, about 60km west of Łódź.

Thank you!
Joe

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dnowicki
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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 7:26 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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[quote="JGwizdowski"][quote="dnowicki"]
JGwizdowski wrote:
Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe


Joe,

The priest used an abbreviation/type of shorthand for the name of the father of the deceased. I can think of only 3 masculine names which could possibly be abbreviated that way: Marianus/Marian, Martiannus/Marcjan, and Martinus/Marcin. Personally, I would lean towards Martinus/Marcin.
The only relationship of Józef Kościnski to the deceased which is explicit in the entry is that he was one of the two informants who brought the news of Katarzyna's death to the parish. The record is silent regarding any blood relationship between Józef and Katarzyna.

Anyway, here is the translation:

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the Year): 4
Col. 2: Annus, Mensis et Dies Obitus = Year, Month and Day of Death: January 5, 1823
Col. 3: In quo loco obit = In what place did he/she die: Brudnica
Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Mortui = Given and Surname of the Deceased: Katarzyna Maciejewska nee Kościnska
Col. 5: Aetas Mortui = Age of the Deceased:
Col. 5a: Anni = Years: 48
Col. 5b: Menses = Months: blank
Col. 5c: Dies = Days: blank
Col. 6: Status, Conditio Mortui = State, Condition of the Deceased: Widow
Col. 7: Nomen Patris = Name of the Father: Marcin(?) Kościnski, an organist; Mother: Agnieszka Łyczb(?)inska
Col. 8: Nomen et Cognomen Matris = Given and Surname of the Mother: cf. above
Col. 9: Sexus = Gender
Col. 9a: Masc. = Males
Col. 9a1: Leg. = Legitimate: blank
Col 9 a2: Illeg. = Illegitimate: blank
Col. 9b: Fem. = Females:
Col. 9b1: Leg. = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 9b2: Illeg. = Illegitimate: blank
Col. 10: Morbus ex quo obit = The Disease from which he/she died: Consumption/tuberculosis (of the lungs)
Col. 11 Modus quo rescivit de identitate mortui = The way in which he learned of the identity of the deceased: (From) Jόzef Kościnski, a tenant from Chlewiska(?), Szymon Rutkowski, a shepherd of sheep/cattle from Brudnica
Col. 12: Annus, Mensis, Dies et Locus Sepulturae = The Year, Month, Day and Place of Burial: January 8
Col. 13: Annotationes = Notations: blank

Sorry that this is not much help but it is the total of what is recorded in the entry.

Dave
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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 9:08 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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[quote="dnowicki"][quote="JGwizdowski"]
dnowicki wrote:

Joe,

The priest used an abbreviation/type of shorthand for the name of the father of the deceased. I can think of only 3 masculine names which could possibly be abbreviated that way: Marianus/Marian, Martiannus/Marcjan, and Martinus/Marcin. Personally, I would lean towards Martinus/Marcin....

Sorry that this is not much help but it is the total of what is recorded in the entry.

Dave

Dave...
This is all great information! The fact that the deceased's father was an organist make me think this is, indeed, my Koscinski ancestor...perhaps the first of 4 generations of church organists!

I really appreciate the work you put in to translating this. I know the script was quite a challenge!

Now I need to figure out where to go next! Smile

Thank you!
Joe

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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:40 pm      Post subject: Lizak and Bzdziuch death records
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Greetings!

I have such a difficult time with this heavy inked script. If only the priests had used block letters!

There are two back to back records from the Austrian district in 1890...as best I can make out the first record is...
Joannes Lizak, -wife Sophia Januk. - age 56 years. - Pneumonia [in Wólka Grodziska]

The next record is...
Aldabertus Bzdziuch, -wife Maria Majewin. - age 37 years, (can't make out cause of death) [in Wólka Grodziska]

I would be greatly appreciative if you would cast your well trained eyes on these two records and let me know what I have missed, and what I have gotten wrong. My reading of the given names of the deceased, and the spouses given and surnames are of particular interest.

Thank you VERY much!
Joe



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Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:43 pm      Post subject: Re: Lizak and Bzdziuch death records
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

I have such a difficult time with this heavy inked script. If only the priests had used block letters!

There are two back to back records from the Austrian district in 1890...as best I can make out the first record is...
Joannes Lizak, -wife Sophia Januk. - age 56 years. - Pneumonia [in Wólka Grodziska]

The next record is...
Aldabertus Bzdziuch, -wife Maria Majewin. - age 37 years, (can't make out cause of death) [in Wólka Grodziska]

I would be greatly appreciative if you would cast your well trained eyes on these two records and let me know what I have missed, and what I have gotten wrong. My reading of the given names of the deceased, and the spouses given and surnames are of particular interest.

Thank you VERY much!
Joe


Joe,

The things you did not include are the house numbers where the deaths took place and the notation that the same priest listed above did the funeral. I imagine that you didn't overlook the house numbers. They could be helpful when putting everything together. The name of the priest is not genealogically significant.

I read the first record as "Jan Lizak, husband of Zofia Janusz" (rather than Januk). I just don't see the last letter as "k". You are correct that he died of pneumonia and was 57 years old.

I read the second entry as "Wojciech Bzdziuch, husband of Maria Majowicz." I see his age more as 57 rather than 37. The first number looks to me more like a sloppy 5 than a 3---especially when compared with the number 3 in the final entry in the cropped post. A very effective way to determine letters and numbers when they are not immediately clear and certain is to compare what is written with other entries in the same handwriting on the page. If a word is well recognized then the letters in that word can serve as a guide for determining letters in words which are not immediately familiar. I use the Latin words in that way to determine letters in surnames which are not familiar to me. Of course that method does not work so well if one does not know what the Latin should be. In that case, well recognized given names should work for letter comparison. My recommendation would be to use that method with the numbers 3 & 5 and see which number looks more like what you see in his age.

Wojciech died of hydrops, which was also known as dropsy and currently would be referred to as edema. The disease results in a build up of fluids in tissues and bodily cavities.

If you have difficulty reading the cursive in the records just imagine what it will be like for kids who are currently in grammar school now since many/most? schools no longer teach cursive.

Don't forget to keep practicing your cursive reading skills.

Dave
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