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Louie

Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: Michael Wotoszyk and Maria Smukalatowna

I found Maria's first marriage.
Need help smoothing this out

1808
Pokotki ( Hic gen.s?) of the pastor ad + accusative plural : place where “tablets. records”
Bachelor 27 years (old) with maiden 20 years (old)
I who (named) above [ Rev. Wuckowy] IDK 6th of November IDK IDK married HH? Michael(im) Wotoszyk with Maria Smukalatowna. (Smukala) IDK testeby? Witnesses:
Thoma Harka (Starka) and Jacobo Bata IDK , inde (from the same town /parish.)
Thank you,
louie

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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Michael Wotoszyk and Maria Smukalatowna

Louie wrote:

Hi Louie,

The text contains quite a few abbreviations. I hope that the translation helps to clarify the text for you.

Dave

Left Margin: Pogotki

This line is an explanatory note which is not an integrtal part of the record. The first word is Hucusque (an adverb) = hitherto
The entry is translated as “Hitherto added to the tablets (i.e. the records)”

A single young man 27 years of age with a maiden 20 years of age

I who (is named) above on the 6th day of November, after the banns had been promulgated, etc.,* joined together the upright** Michał Wotoszyk with the upright** Maryanna Smukałowna*** in the presence of the witnesses Tomasz Starka and Jakub Bata, all**** from there (i.e. Pogotki).

Notes: *The statement is a shortened form of the usual statement about the banns and no impediment having been found. The priest just didn’t write out the entire stock phrase.

**honestus/upright: an adjective used to describe a farmer from a village or a small town. Here it is abbreviated as H.H.

***The suffix -owna means “daughter of”

****all is abbreviated as oes in the text. The sign above it indicates that it is an abbreviation and that the full form of the word is “o(mn)es.

TedMack

Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 480
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:33 am Post subject: Latin Records Translation

G'day Dave

Can you please translate the attached Death record please - I have provided the full page plus a crop of the individual record. It is record 16 on the page.

Thanks

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dnowicki
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Latin Records Translation

TedMack wrote:

G'day Dave

Can you please translate the attached Death record please - I have provided the full page plus a crop of the individual record. It is record 16 on the page.

Thanks

Hi Ted,

There are many blank columns in this record. I hope those which contain entries will be useful to you.

This death record is a Latin-Polish hybrid. All the headings are in Latin but some entries are in Latin and others are in Polish.

Dave

Col. 1 Number (for the year): 16
Col. 2: Day, month & year: January 24, 18
Col. 3: Place: Ostrow
Col. 4: Name of deceased: Rozalia Paprzycka
Col. 5: Ane: 60
Col. 6: Old lady/grandmother*
Col. 7: Status: Blank
Col 8: Status of father: Blank
Col. 9: Name of father: Blank
Col. 10: Name of mother: Blank
Col 11: Male: Blank
Col. 12: Female—legitimate: Checked
Col. 13: Disease: edema aka dropsy**
Col. 14: Informant: Parents***

Notes: *baba/old lady/grandmother: This Polish wor admits of many shades of meaning. When I see baba the song “Miała Baba koguta” (The old lady had a rooster) immediately comes to mind. It is funny how a single word can trigger fond memories from long ago. It was a song my maternal grandfather used to like to sing to my brother and to me when we were young.
**na puchlinę: edema aka dropsy aka hydrops was a disease which caused fluids to build up in badily cavities and/or tissues which resulted in swelling.
***parentes/parents: This appears to be an error given her age (60) and the fact that the names of her parents are not recorded. The previous two entries name the parents as the informants but in each istance the deceased is a child—one 7 days old and the other 1 year and six months old. Ditto appears in her record but that likely was entered in error.

TedMack

Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 480
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Latin Records Translation

dnowicki wrote:

TedMack wrote:

G'day Dave

Can you please translate the attached Death record please - I have provided the full page plus a crop of the individual record. It is record 16 on the page.

Thanks

Thanks Dave - I was looking for a clue as to when her husband died, I'm pretty sure he predeceased Rozalia.
Looking at the records for the three or four years prior to this record they are all either a mixture of Polish & Latin or sometimes Latin and then the next year Polish. Yes, I find Baba not endearing terminology but that may just be me. And the search continues.

Thanks again.

adame24

Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Replies: 26

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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 10:45 pm Post subject:

Hello,
I am seeking assistance in deciphering the names of the parents and grandparents of Jacobus Stanisz, listed in the 3rd row from bottom. The parents names should be Joannes Stanisz and Anna Holota, but I can't read their parents names. They appear to be "Stanislaw" and "Sophia". Also, does the extra text at the bottom mean anything? Thank you!

1. Nat: 24 Julius 1834
2. Bap: 25 Julius 1834
3. Numerus Domu: 32
4. Nomen Baptisati: Jacobus
5. Religio: Catholica
6. Sexus: Puer
7. Patris: Joannes Stanisz
8. Matris: Anna Holota

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dnowicki
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:08 pm Post subject:

adame24 wrote:

Hi,

The Habsburg Empire aka the Austro-Hungarian Empire was a multi-ethnic empire which was predominately Catholic. Galicia from 1772 until the end of WWI was part of that empire. The Austrian authorities decided to use Catholic Church sacramental records as civil vital records. The civil authorities decided the format and the content of the records. Probably the most simple explanation for why the records were to be kept in Latin is that Latin was the official language of the Roman Catholic Church and the empire needed to decide upon one language to be used for the various countries which made up the empire. Although Latin was not the vernacular of any country which was part of the empire it was a logical choice for keeping records for the entire empire.

Keep in mind that the individuals named in the records were not known by the Latin form of their given name. Since this record is from Galicia the individuals would have used the Polish version of their given name in their ordinary life. For your convenience I’m again posting a list of Latin given names with their English and Polish versions.

I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether or not the info in the notes is important to you as part of your genealogical research.

A hint on how to read the data contained in the parents’ columns...Latin, unlike English, does not depend on word order for a statement to make sense. Latin uses Case Endings to determine how words are being used. In both the parents’ columns the statements are very simple. They contain the names of the child’s parents and grandfather/grandmother. The other two words are the preposition “ex” and the participle natus/nata. Just as in English, Latin participles are verbal adjectives. Here natus/nata are the Perfect Participles of the deponent verb nascor (to be born). Natus modifies Joannes (the father) and nata modifies Anna (the mother). In English word order the entries would be Joannes natus ex Stanislao Stanisz and Anna nata ex Sophia Holata. Only Anna’s mother is listed because she had been born out of wedlock.

Here follows the transcription and translation of the data found in the record.

1. Nat: 24 Julius 1834 = Born: 24 July, 1834
2. Bap: 25 Julius 1834 = Baptized: 25 July, 1834
3. Numerus Domus: 32 = House Number 32
4. Nomen Baptisati: Jacobus = Name of the one baptized: Jakub
5. Religio: Catholica = Religion: Catholic
6. Sexus: Puer = Sex: Boy
7. Legitimus: = Legitimate: Checked
8. Nomen Patris: Joannes ex Stanislao Stanisz natus = Name of the father: Jan born of/from Stanisław Stanisz
9. Nomen Matris: Anna ex Sophia Holata nata = Name of the mother: Anna born of/from Zofia Holata
10. Patrini: Cajetanus Burkowicz, Francisca Wolak = The sponsors (aka godparents): Kajetan Burkowicz, Franciszka Wolak
Notes: Obst. Salomea Kowalska. = The midwife (was) Salomea (same in both Latin and Polish) Kowalska
Bapt Michael Katarzynski parochus Bay???ensis = Michał Katarzynski, the pastor of Bay?????, baptized (him).

I hope this helps you. If you have questions, please feel free to ask.

Wishing you success,

Dave

GIVEN NAMES-LATIN, ENGLISH, POLISH.pdf

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adame24

Joined: 02 Jan 2020
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject:

dnowicki wrote:

adame24 wrote:

Dave,
I really appreciate the explanations, that was above and beyond what I was asking and is appreciated! I find Latin easier to understand, but reading the old world writing is what's difficult for me. Thanks for your time and efforts.

Is it safe to assume that if only the mother Sophia is listed that the father is deceased at the time of birth? If this is true, then is it also safe to assume that Stanislaw's wife is deceased since she's not mentioned?

Regards,

alexjackson

Joined: 18 May 2021
Replies: 3

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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: Metric translation

I am looking for the Ukrainian version of the names. I know Denys (my mother's maiden name). I just want to make sure I am getting the right version of all the names (first and last). The metric is Latin and Polish. I do not need the far right hand column.

Thank you for any help.

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dnowicki
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:31 pm Post subject:

adame24 wrote:

Hi,

The short answer to both your questions is No. Sophia was not married at the time of the birth of her daughter Anna. Holata is her birth surname (the surname of Sophia’s father). The father’s name would appear in the record only if he was married to Sophia or if he acknowledged paternity. Since neither was the case the father’s name is not recorded. If you are able to locate Anna’s birth and baptism record it should note that she was illegitimate.

A deceased wife’s name is not simply omitted from a record. Instead, her name would appear with an indication that she was deceased. One of the more common abbreviations which indicates that a person was deceased is p.d. Of course there were other was of indicating that a person was deceased but omitting the person’s name was not one of them. The inclusion of the father’s name without mention of his wife has no deeper meaning than that was the only data the priest included.

I hope this explanation helps to answer your questions.

Dave

dnowicki
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Metric translation

alexjackson wrote:

Hi,

I really cannot help you with Ukrainian versions of names in the record since Ukrainian is not one of the languages which I know. My suggestion for the given (first) names would be to consult the PDF of Latin given names and their English, and Polish versions posted on this page. You can then use the English versions to search lists of Ukrainian given names to verify the names. Two names wihch do not appear on the list of given names are Xernia, and Marina. For both those names the Latin English versions are identical.

The surnames Martyn, Jastrembski, Denys and Dż(i)ura all are legitimate Polish surnames. I suggest that you check out a Ukrainian genealogy site to learn of any Ukrainian versions of those surnames.

Wishing you success,

Dave

TedMack

Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 480
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 12:51 am Post subject: Latin Record Translation

G'day Dave

I was hoping you could translate the attached Birth/Baptism record please. It is the first record in September - I've attached a copy of the whole page plus a cropped view.

Thanks

Ted

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alexjackson

Joined: 18 May 2021
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Metric translation

dnowicki wrote:

alexjackson wrote:

Thank you Dave, I will do that. One question I have is the name Jastrembski. The letter in the metric looks like an I not a J. How do you distinguish capital J from capital I. If you look at Jastrembski, Ignatii, and Joannes the first letter looks almost identical.

Thank you,
Alex

Last edited by alexjackson on Wed May 19, 2021 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

dnowicki
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation

TedMack wrote:

G'day Dave

I was hoping you could translate the attached Birth/Baptism record please. It is the first record in September - I've attached a copy of the whole page plus a cropped view.

Thanks

Ted

Hi Ted,

The record is straightforward except for the way the Arabic numerals are formed. I can’t see hiring the scribe to do accounting. I have moral certitude that the day of birth is the 8th but am not so sure of the numeral for the hour of the child’s birth.

Anyway, here follows the translation.

Dave

Right Margin: Wierzchosław* On the 10th day of September Maryanna Solarczyk

Body of Entry: I, as above, baptized sn infant by the name of Maryanna, born on the 8th day of the same (month & year—September, 1826) at 3** in the morning, the daughter of the legitimate marital union of the industrious*** Stefan/Scczepan Solarczyk and of Franciszka nee Zielnikowna****. The sponsors were Michał Tomalak, a single young man/bachelor and the industrious*** Spolona.

Notes: *Wierzchosław*:The village does not appear on contemporary maps. It is mentioned in the Słownik geograficzny in the entry for Sobótka and is found on the Gilly Map to the north of Sobótka under the spelling Zwierzcholas (cf. attached portion of the map by David Gilly). Links to the two pages of the entry: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_X/955 & http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_X/956

**3: That is how I interpret the number
***laboriosus/industrious: an adjective used to denote an individual as a peasant.
****-owna: The suffix describes her as the daughter of Zielnik.

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TedMack

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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Latin Record Translation

dnowicki wrote:

TedMack wrote:

G'day Dave

I was hoping you could translate the attached Birth/Baptism record please. It is the first record in September - I've attached a copy of the whole page plus a cropped view.

Thanks

Ted

Thanks Dave - very informative as always.

I did find the Index record for this last week and Marcel was able to translate - see attached. Also, I do know that Wierzchosław (is now Żychlin) near Karsy [when Prussian partition Bismarksdorf]. The times you read in the document correspond with the Index.

The search continues.

Ted

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