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C J Schmidt



Joined: 27 Mar 2022
Replies: 15
Location: Retired

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Post Posted: 5 Days ago at 1:35 pm      Post subject: Status of Sadlno Marriage Record Gaps
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I am wondering if anyone knows the status of the record gaps in the Wielkopolski, Sadlno Marriage records, 1849-1850.
Were they just missed during the scan process, or books were in too bad of shape to scan, or missing or still being scanned??? Perhaps they are in a neighboring city? The gaps in death records is even worse?

I am looking for the Marriage record for Jan Grams and Anna Albrecht. I have the marriage record for his son Tomaz Grams translated, (my gr. grandfather) states his mothers name as Anna Albrecht. I have found the birth records for 5 children born to this couple from 1853 to 1861,

Am also wondering if the Marriage on the index of a Jan Grams to a Anna Kranz may have been a first marriage for Jan Grams. But the missing death records for the period make it a bit difficult to know whether or not Anna (Kranz) Grams, passed away or she had been married to a Kranz and he passed away and she remarried Jan Grams.

Any info on the record gaps for Wielkopolski, Sadlno records would be appreciated.



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Trish



Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 142

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Post Posted: 4 Days ago at 11:10 am      Post subject: Re: Status of Sadlno Marriage Record Gaps
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C J Schmidt wrote:
I am wondering if anyone knows the status of the record gaps in the Wielkopolski, Sadlno Marriage records, 1849-1850.
Were they just missed during the scan process, or books were in too bad of shape to scan, or missing or still being scanned??? Perhaps they are in a neighboring city? The gaps in death records is even worse?

I am looking for the Marriage record for Jan Grams and Anna Albrecht. I have the marriage record for his son Tomaz Grams translated, (my gr. grandfather) states his mothers name as Anna Albrecht. I have found the birth records for 5 children born to this couple from 1853 to 1861,

Am also wondering if the Marriage on the index of a Jan Grams to a Anna Kranz may have been a first marriage for Jan Grams. But the missing death records for the period make it a bit difficult to know whether or not Anna (Kranz) Grams, passed away or she had been married to a Kranz and he passed away and she remarried Jan Grams.

Any info on the record gaps for Wielkopolski, Sadlno records would be appreciated.


Hi C.J.
I was able to find a possible marriage record (or marriage announcement) for Jan Grams and Anna Krantz on familysearch.org microfilm. Their Birth/Baptismal records were attached. However, we are going to need help with reading the documents.

The records were found on familysearch.org microfilm #2234626 Item 4 - DGS #008122017.
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Sadlno (Radziejów)
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/107504?availability=Family%20History%20Library

From what I can make out on the B/B records - Jan Grams was bon on December 26, 1810. On the microfilm, his record was Image #745.

Anna Krantz was born on January 27, 1816. Her record on the microfilm was Image #745.

I'm not sure if this is the marriage record or a banns of marriage. This record was Image #747.

Hope this helps some.
Trish



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C J Schmidt



Joined: 27 Mar 2022
Replies: 15
Location: Retired

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Post Posted: 4 Days ago at 12:41 pm      Post subject: Status of Sadlno Marriage Record Gaps
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Thank you Trish, for the documents and links. It has been awhile since I have been to a LDS church. All the online access at the link you sent were locked. * more notes *

I do have a 1840 Marriage record of Jan Grams and Anna Kranz, stating his parents being Krystian and Marianna.
So that birth document 'is' Jan's.
But, without his marriage record to Anna Albrecht, who gave birth to Tomasz (my gr grandfather) and 4 other children, I don't feel as though I can lay claim to the fact that the same Jan Grams had also been married to a Anna Kranz.

I will ask for a translation of both, the one you sent as well as the one I have, so that will be helpful moving forward.

Thank you again, Trish. Much appreciated.



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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:50 pm      Post subject: Re: Status of Sadlno Marriage Record Gaps
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[quote="Trish"]
C J Schmidt wrote:
I am wondering if anyone knows the status of the record gaps in the Wielkopolski, Sadlno Marriage records, 1849-1850.
Were they just missed during the scan process, or books were in too bad of shape to scan, or missing or still being scanned??? Perhaps they are in a neighboring city? The gaps in death records is even worse?

I am looking for the Marriage record for Jan Grams and Anna Albrecht. I have the marriage record for his son Tomaz Grams translated, (my gr. grandfather) states his mothers name as Anna Albrecht. I have found the birth records for 5 children born to this couple from 1853 to 1861,

Am also wondering if the Marriage on the index of a Jan Grams to a Anna Kranz may have been a first marriage for Jan Grams. But the missing death records for the period make it a bit difficult to know whether or not Anna (Kranz) Grams, passed away or she had been married to a Kranz and he passed away and she remarried Jan Grams.

Any info on the record gaps for Wielkopolski, Sadlno records would be appreciated.


Hi C.J. & Trish,

Here is a link to a Genetyeka sub-site which lists where parish metrical books are held: https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=7435 The info on the site has been compiled by volunteers and is not necessarily complete but the locations listed are correct.

The gaps in indexed records are due to the fact that not all the metrical books for the parish are housed in archives in Poland. Since I have an ancestor who was baptized in Sadlno I know from personal experience that the parish is difficult to research. Something to consider is that it may be necessary to widen your search since due to the tough economic conditions in Russian controlled Poland aka Królestwo Polskie, especially during the second half of the 19th Century, individuals and families often moved from village to village and from parish to parish. It is also important to widen the search for marriage records since R.C weddings took place in the parish where the bride was residing which was not necessarily the same parish where she was baptized.

The go to archive for records from Sadlno is the Włocławek branch of the Polish National Archive in Toruń: https://www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ The records housed in the archive of the Diocese of Włocławek are only online in the form of LDS films on Family Search but the years are not right for what you would need. The marriage record what you found is the one which contains all the information that you need. The record found by Trish is what we would call today a part of a prenuptial file. The main information in that record is regarding the banns of marriage and the record lists the dates on which the bands were proclaimed. It is probably not worth taking up Marcel's time to translate it since the more detailed information is found in the actual marriage record would you have found.

There is an 1846 death record for Anna Grams which may possibly be that of the death of Jan’s possible first wife. However, the information is sketchy and does not line up perfectly which is not a surprise but it may be worth keeping as circumstantial evidence.

Not all of the index birth records for the children of Jan and Anna our civil transcripts in Polish. Most are in Latin in in columnar format. The Columns are lacking headings but it is not too difficult to determine what info is found in each column. Column 1 names of the village where the birth took place. Column 2 is the date of baptism. Column 3 is the name of the child. Column 4 is the date of birth. Column five is the name of the father. Column 6 is his age. Column seven is the name of the mother and column 8 is her age. Column 9 contains the names of the baptismal sponsors aka godparents. Images of the records of some of their children are attached. If you have any difficulty with the Latin records I’m sure that the dude who does the Latin translations would be willing to help, if you ask nicely.

Wishing you success,

Dave



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C J Schmidt



Joined: 27 Mar 2022
Replies: 15
Location: Retired

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Post Posted: Yesterday at 5:04 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you for all your info Dave.
I did have all the index versions from the books out of the archive link you provided. Been using that archive a lot. Very Happy
But didn't have the complete entries. So thank you, for the birth records.

The tip on where marriage records may be located as opposed to where they were born was also helpful, I had suspected that was the case, as that's how I had found other marriages for other members of my family.

Finally back up on (https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov) and have been searching in the neighboring communities of Kazubek, for the Jan Grams and Anna Albrecht marriage.
Sompolno seems promising, as I am finding a couple of Albrecht families in that area.

The death record of the Anna Grams that you referred to: I do have her 1842 birth record, same location. Her father was Jozef Grams on the birth record. Jozef Grams is also on that 1846 death record twice, so I am assuming it is her father.

All your input and info is much appreciated, thanks again.

Carla
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