djablonka
Joined: 22 Jun 2018
Replies: 45
Location: West Chester, OhioBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Jadwiga Urszula Grzegorzewska
[quote="Magroski49"] | djablonka wrote: | | Quote: |
Thank you both for your help. I really appreciate it.
I have a couple more questions:
Line 7:
"Jokanad" night
Child gender female was born in home "podsam"
on day eleventh October year current at hour
Can you give me the word in Polish for Jokanad and podsam? I would like to have the polish correct spelling and english translation for these.
Line 16
Lat czterdziesci sześć liczącego pierwszego "ułrzymaiącew"
Dom "Szynkowny", drugiego gospodarza rolnego, obydwoez
w Kowala zamieszkałych. Akt "mnicy"
Can you please give me the word in polish for "ułrzymaiącew" and "Szynkowny" and "minicy" as well as the english translation?
Line 20:
What does "ile ze" father "y" witness in the act of expressing... mean? I would like the translation for "ile ze" and "y".
Line 22:
What do the last 2 words mean "Staw lywie"?
Thanks again for all your help. You are so kind. I really appreciate it,
Dave Jablonka |
Some help:
It is 'i okazi Nam' (I can't tell you why it is written 'okazad', maybe a declensioned form)
the other should be 'pod numerem' (it seems the word after 'pod' was abbreviated)
It is utrzy* not 'ulrzy*
(Urzadnika) Stanu Ciwyl(nego)
Maybe a more experienced volunteer can help you with the rest. You can also check this: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Polish_Civil_Registration_Reading_Aid
Gilberto |
thanks for your help Gilberto! That clear up quite a bit. If anyone has knowledge of the remaining items, please let me know.
Line 16
Lat czterdziesci sześć liczącego pierwszego ułrzymaiącew
Dom "Szynkowny", drugiego gospodarza rolnego, obydwoez
w Kowala zamieszkałych. Akt "mnicy"
Can you please give me the word in polish for "Szynkowny" and "minicy" as well as the english translation? Based on Gilberto's feedback, is this line stating "Years forty six counting first supporting
At home Szynkowny" where Szynkowny means tavern keeper?
Line 20:
What does "ile ze" father "y" witness in the act of expressing... mean? I would like the translation for "ile ze" and "y".
For line 8, when it refers to being born at home at number 177, is this the house number within the town?
Thanks again for all your help! This is extremely exciting!
_________________
Dave Jablonka
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2793
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Jadwiga Urszula Grzegorzewska
[quote="djablonka"] | Magroski49 wrote: | | djablonka wrote: | | Quote: |
Thank you both for your help. I really appreciate it.
I have a couple more questions:
Line 7:
"Jokanad" night
Child gender female was born in home "podsam"
on day eleventh October year current at hour
Can you give me the word in Polish for Jokanad and podsam? I would like to have the polish correct spelling and english translation for these.
Line 16
Lat czterdziesci sześć liczącego pierwszego "ułrzymaiącew"
Dom "Szynkowny", drugiego gospodarza rolnego, obydwoez
w Kowala zamieszkałych. Akt "mnicy"
Can you please give me the word in polish for "ułrzymaiącew" and "Szynkowny" and "minicy" as well as the english translation?
Line 20:
What does "ile ze" father "y" witness in the act of expressing... mean? I would like the translation for "ile ze" and "y".
Line 22:
What do the last 2 words mean "Staw lywie"?
Thanks again for all your help. You are so kind. I really appreciate it,
Dave Jablonka |
Some help:
It is 'i okazi Nam' (I can't tell you why it is written 'okazad', maybe a declensioned form)
the other should be 'pod numerem' (it seems the word after 'pod' was abbreviated)
It is utrzy* not 'ulrzy*
(Urzadnika) Stanu Ciwyl(nego)
Maybe a more experienced volunteer can help you with the rest. You can also check this: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Polish_Civil_Registration_Reading_Aid
Gilberto |
thanks for your help Gilberto! That clear up quite a bit. If anyone has knowledge of the remaining items, please let me know.
Line 16
Lat czterdziesci sześć liczącego pierwszego ułrzymaiącew
Dom "Szynkowny", drugiego gospodarza rolnego, obydwoez
w Kowala zamieszkałych. Akt "mnicy"
Can you please give me the word in polish for "Szynkowny" and "minicy" as well as the english translation? Based on Gilberto's feedback, is this line stating "Years forty six counting first supporting
At home Szynkowny" where Szynkowny means tavern keeper?
Line 20:
What does "ile ze" father "y" witness in the act of expressing... mean? I would like the translation for "ile ze" and "y".
For line 8, when it refers to being born at home at number 177, is this the house number within the town?
Thanks again for all your help! This is extremely exciting! |
Dave & Gilberto,
I applaud your efforts and enthusiasm, Dave.
There are several general comments I would offer for your consideration. 1) Not all parts of a record are of equal importance and some parts are not worth the time and effort necessary to read and translate those parts of minimal import. 2) Polish, like all living languages, has changed over time. 19th Century Polish is not identical to contemporary Polish. The same can be said of any language, including English. 3)While one can certainly translate a document word for word, and while that may be what one needs to do when first learning to translate from Polish to English, there are better ways to take a Polish text and render it into English. All languages employ idioms and what is a perfectly fine idiomatic expression in one language often is awkward in another---and sometimes just plain confusing in the other language. The best translators translate ideas and not simply words.
Anyway, getting off the soapbox, here are some answers to your questions. In line 16… “lat...licącego pierwsiego utrzymajcego dom szynkowny, drugiego gospodarza rolnego obydwoch w Kowalu zamieszkalych” is best translated “the first (Błażej), 46 years of age, keeping a public house (i.e. a tavern), the second (Piotr) a farmer on a full farmstead, both residing in Kowal.” (Here we have an example of an idiomatic expression. “Lat...licącego” as well as, “lat...mającego” (“counting...years”, as well as “having...years” are Polish idioms which express age. The English idioms are “years of age”, “old” and similar expressions. Here good Polish and good English are not the same.
In line 20 “y” was a way that “i” (“and”) was written in the 19th Century. The sentence which begins in line 18 with the words “Akt niniejszy...” is one of those parts of a record which is not worth sweating. It is just a standard legalistic formula used to conclude these records. For what it is worth here is the translation of the sentence. “The present record (akt) of birth, after being read to the declarant, was signed only by us (the “royal” plural), in as much as the father and the witnesses in the record state that they do not know how to write.
The record concludes with the signature of the priest. Again, it is an unimportant part of the record for genealogical purposes. Here is the Polish “X Jacob Kolęda...stanu cywil(nego). The last word is abbreviated. The English is: “Priest (literally---English would say “Father” or “Reverend”) (In Polish, priests who belonged to a religious order were called “Ojciec/Father”. Diocesan (secular) clerics were called “Ksiądz/Priest” and “X”was the abbreviation for Ksiądz.) Going back to the translation...”Priest
Jacob Kolęda, deputy civil registrar.”
Gilberto,
What you read as “okazad” is just the way the priest (or actually the scribe he hired to transcribe the record) wrote “okazał”.
Dave,
The house Number (177) was the number (address) within in town.
Like they say in the cartoons...”That’s all, folks.”
I hope this verbose explanation helps.
Dave
P.S. Some terms in these records were used with a particular meaning which described an individuals social class/occupation. Slawetny/renowned/famous is one such term. It was usually used to describe a middle class craftsman. An owner of a public house/tavern was such an individual.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:43 am
Post subject: Translation help
Could you Please translate this birth record of the son of my great grandfather?
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djablonka
Joined: 22 Jun 2018
Replies: 45
Location: West Chester, OhioBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:44 am
Post subject: Re: Jadwiga Urszula Grzegorzewska
[quote="dnowicki"] | djablonka wrote: | | Magroski49 wrote: | | djablonka wrote: | | Quote: |
Thank you both for your help. I really appreciate it.
I have a couple more questions:
Line 7:
"Jokanad" night
Child gender female was born in home "podsam"
on day eleventh October year current at hour
Can you give me the word in Polish for Jokanad and podsam? I would like to have the polish correct spelling and english translation for these.
Line 16
Lat czterdziesci sześć liczącego pierwszego "ułrzymaiącew"
Dom "Szynkowny", drugiego gospodarza rolnego, obydwoez
w Kowala zamieszkałych. Akt "mnicy"
Can you please give me the word in polish for "ułrzymaiącew" and "Szynkowny" and "minicy" as well as the english translation?
Line 20:
What does "ile ze" father "y" witness in the act of expressing... mean? I would like the translation for "ile ze" and "y".
Line 22:
What do the last 2 words mean "Staw lywie"?
Thanks again for all your help. You are so kind. I really appreciate it,
Dave Jablonka |
Some help:
It is 'i okazi Nam' (I can't tell you why it is written 'okazad', maybe a declensioned form)
the other should be 'pod numerem' (it seems the word after 'pod' was abbreviated)
It is utrzy* not 'ulrzy*
(Urzadnika) Stanu Ciwyl(nego)
Maybe a more experienced volunteer can help you with the rest. You can also check this: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Polish_Civil_Registration_Reading_Aid
Gilberto |
thanks for your help Gilberto! That clear up quite a bit. If anyone has knowledge of the remaining items, please let me know.
Line 16
Lat czterdziesci sześć liczącego pierwszego ułrzymaiącew
Dom "Szynkowny", drugiego gospodarza rolnego, obydwoez
w Kowala zamieszkałych. Akt "mnicy"
Can you please give me the word in polish for "Szynkowny" and "minicy" as well as the english translation? Based on Gilberto's feedback, is this line stating "Years forty six counting first supporting
At home Szynkowny" where Szynkowny means tavern keeper?
Line 20:
What does "ile ze" father "y" witness in the act of expressing... mean? I would like the translation for "ile ze" and "y".
For line 8, when it refers to being born at home at number 177, is this the house number within the town?
Thanks again for all your help! This is extremely exciting! |
Dave & Gilberto,
I applaud your efforts and enthusiasm, Dave.
There are several general comments I would offer for your consideration. 1) Not all parts of a record are of equal importance and some parts are not worth the time and effort necessary to read and translate those parts of minimal import. 2) Polish, like all living languages, has changed over time. 19th Century Polish is not identical to contemporary Polish. The same can be said of any language, including English. 3)While one can certainly translate a document word for word, and while that may be what one needs to do when first learning to translate from Polish to English, there are better ways to take a Polish text and render it into English. All languages employ idioms and what is a perfectly fine idiomatic expression in one language often is awkward in another---and sometimes just plain confusing in the other language. The best translators translate ideas and not simply words.
Anyway, getting off the soapbox, here are some answers to your questions. In line 16… “lat...licącego pierwsiego utrzymajcego dom szynkowny, drugiego gospodarza rolnego obydwoch w Kowalu zamieszkalych” is best translated “the first (Błażej), 46 years of age, keeping a public house (i.e. a tavern), the second (Piotr) a farmer on a full farmstead, both residing in Kowal.” (Here we have an example of an idiomatic expression. “Lat...licącego” as well as, “lat...mającego” (“counting...years”, as well as “having...years” are Polish idioms which express age. The English idioms are “years of age”, “old” and similar expressions. Here good Polish and good English are not the same.
In line 20 “y” was a way that “i” (“and”) was written in the 19th Century. The sentence which begins in line 18 with the words “Akt niniejszy...” is one of those parts of a record which is not worth sweating. It is just a standard legalistic formula used to conclude these records. For what it is worth here is the translation of the sentence. “The present record (akt) of birth, after being read to the declarant, was signed only by us (the “royal” plural), in as much as the father and the witnesses in the record state that they do not know how to write.
The record concludes with the signature of the priest. Again, it is an unimportant part of the record for genealogical purposes. Here is the Polish “X Jacob Kolęda...stanu cywil(nego). The last word is abbreviated. The English is: “Priest (literally---English would say “Father” or “Reverend”) (In Polish, priests who belonged to a religious order were called “Ojciec/Father”. Diocesan (secular) clerics were called “Ksiądz/Priest” and “X”was the abbreviation for Ksiądz.) Going back to the translation...”Priest
Jacob Kolęda, deputy civil registrar.”
Gilberto,
What you read as “okazad” is just the way the priest (or actually the scribe he hired to transcribe the record) wrote “okazał”.
Dave,
The house Number (177) was the number (address) within in town.
Like they say in the cartoons...”That’s all, folks.”
I hope this verbose explanation helps.
Dave
P.S. Some terms in these records were used with a particular meaning which described an individuals social class/occupation. Slawetny/renowned/famous is one such term. It was usually used to describe a middle class craftsman. An owner of a public house/tavern was such an individual. |
Dave,
Thank you for all of the info! That is super and clarifies a lot.
How would I go about finding House Number 177? Is there a source for a map of Kowal from 1824 somewhere, or a way to determine the current day address of house 177?
Thanks again!
Dave Jablonka
_________________
Dave Jablonka
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Wigry
| sophiekrolski wrote: | | Hello. I have the 1818 marriage record (Wigry Parish) for my 3x-great-grandparents (Zaskiewicz/Izbicki) and would appreciate a translation or a textual version that I can enter into Google Translate. Thanks! |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=37755#37755
Hi Sophie,
Here's a summary --
Date of record: 29 October 1818, 1 p.m.
Groom: Stanisław Zaskiewicz, bachelor, age 33, living in Sobolewo (no info on parents given)
Bride: Miss Wiktoria Izbicka, age 24, living at the home of her parents, accompanied by her mother Maryanna Izbicka nee Czupryńska (no info on father provided)
Banns: first on the 18th and second on the 25th of October
Witnesses: Wojciech Nienartowicz, age 40, and Jakub Pudkowski, age 40, farmers residing in Sobolewo, also Wojciech Izbicki, age 30, and Józef Stronowski, age 38, farmers residing in the village Nowa Wieś located in commune Wigry
Regards,
Valerie
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Tomasz Jurowicz
| crispm28 wrote: | Hello, I have several documents that I would like to have translated when possible. One is for Tomasz and the other is for Jadwiga.
Thank you in advance.
Christine |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=37758#37758
Here's a summary for Jadwiga's record. The uploaded record for Tomasz is too small and blurry to read. As it's available online, it would be great if you could provide a link to the record online which would provide the best quality.
Date of record: Bolesławiec?, 11 September 1841, 8 a.m.
Witnesses: Tomasz Jurowicz, day-laborer, living on a suburban? street, age 42, also Maciej Jurowicz, farmer, living in the village of Piaski, age 45
Deceased: yesterday at 9 a.m. Jadwiga Jurowicz died, age 76, widow, living with her son on suburban? street
Regards,
Valerie
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sophiekrolski
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Replies: 54
Location: Chicago, ILBack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:14 am
Post subject: Thanks
Thank you Valerie for the Zaskiewicz translation. The summary provided some interesting facts that has shed light on the families. Thanks!
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:38 pm
Post subject: Marci Babiarz & Jadwiga Kulczycka Birth records
I would appreciate if someone could translate my 2x great grandparents birth records from Biechow, Poland.
Thank you in advance.
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Marci Babiarz & Jadwiga Kulczycka Birth records
| techman wrote: | I would appreciate if someone could translate my 2x great grandparents birth records from Biechow, Poland.
Thank you in advance. |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=37783#37783
Date of record: Biechów, 9 October 1836, noon
Father: Jan Kulczycki, father, peasant farmer residing in Wola Biechowska, age 36
Witnesses: Józef Babiarz, age 24, and Kasper Sada, age 50, peasant farmers residing in Wola Biechowska
Child: female named Jadwiga born in Wola Biechowska on 9 October this year at 9 a.m.
Mother: Małgorzata Morycz/Marycz?, age 39
Godparents: Józef Babiarz and Magdałena Kołpaczka of Wola Biechowska
Date of record: Biechów, 19 October 1835, 11 a.m.
Father: Grzegorz Babiarz, father, peasant farmer residing in Wójcza, age 30
Witnesses: Antoni Majcher, age 40, and Antoni Fortuna, age 35, peasant farmers residing in Wójcza
Child: male named Marcin born in Wójcza today this year at 8 p.m.
Mother: Maryanna Zębalonka???? (too blurry to decipher detail), age 30
Godparents: Antoni Majcher and Zofia Niedziałka of Chrzanów
Regards,
Valerie
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Marriage record Suwalki 1835
| Korbanka wrote: | Can anybody translate this marriage record? It is from the parish Suwalki, 1835.
The document is from familysearch https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSPC-TXQ5?i=132&cat=299844
The couple is Gotlieb Kurbanko oo Ewa Karwelon (?). I try to connect my Korbanka family tree (most of them from Mierunsken/Oletzko) with the Kurbanko from Suwalki (about 30 km apart). Thank you, Andrea |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=37732#37732
Best I can make out...
Date of record: Kłajpeda?, 22 November 1835, 11 a.m.
Witnesses: Mateusz Dora, age 25, and Franciszek Kandel, age 56, both farmers residing in the village of Iwaniszki
Groom: Gottlieb Korbanko, bachelor, farmer residing in the village of Łopuchowo, born there, son of Marcin and Maria nee Gudell the spouses Korbanko, farmers residing in the village of Łopuchowo, age 21
Bride: Miss Ewa, daughter of Adam, living, and Katarzyna the spouses Karwel, farmers residing in B____ Jeziorki, age 21, born there, and with father living
Banns: 8, 15, & 22 November in parish "Chmielowskiej"
Regards,
Valerie
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crispm28PolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 03 May 2015
Replies: 133
Back to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: Tomasz Jurowicz
| vbstar2010 wrote: | | crispm28 wrote: | Hello, I have several documents that I would like to have translated when possible. One is for Tomasz and the other is for Jadwiga.
Thank you in advance.
Christine |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=37758#37758
Here's a summary for Jadwiga's record. The uploaded record for Tomasz is too small and blurry to read. As it's available online, it would be great if you could provide a link to the record online which would provide the best quality.
Date of record: Bolesławiec?, 11 September 1841, 8 a.m.
Witnesses: Tomasz Jurowicz, day-laborer, living on a suburban? street, age 42, also Maciej Jurowicz, farmer, living in the village of Piaski, age 45
Deceased: yesterday at 9 a.m. Jadwiga Jurowicz died, age 76, widow, living with her son on suburban? street
Regards,
Valerie |
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crispm28PolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 03 May 2015
Replies: 133
Back to top |
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Tomasz Jurowicz
==
Hi Christine,
The death record for Jadwiga does not specifically indicate the relationship between Tomasz and Jadwiga however I did assume that he was the mentioned son with whom she was living.
Updated --
Date of record: Bolesławiec, 11 September 1841, 8 a.m.
Witnesses: Tomasz Jurowicz, day-laborer, living at Podzamcze street, age 42, also Maciej Jurowicz, farmer, living in the village of Piaski, age 45
Deceased: yesterday at 9 a.m. Jadwiga Jurowicz died, age 76, widow, living with her son at Podzamcze street
Date of record: Bolesławiec, 11 June 1832, 5 p.m.
Witnesses: Maciej Jurowicz, day-laborer of Chotynin, age 38, and Antoni Ferdynus, farmer residing in Piaski, age 48
Groom: Tomasz Jurowicz, bachelor, full brother of the appearing witness, servant here in Bolesławiec, son of Augustyn and Jadwiga nee Sutowicz/Sutrowicz? the spouses Jurowicz, father already deceased, mother living in Bolesławiec, age 36
Bride: Miss Madalena, daughter of Ignacy and Maryanna nee "Mąnków" (maybe Manka/Manke?) the spouses Obalski already deceased, age 26, born and living in Bolesławiec, servant
Banns: 20 & 27 May, 3 June
Regards,
Valerie
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HelliPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Replies: 289
Back to top |
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:49 am
Post subject: Polish birth record Dorota Szmitt 1860 # 104
Hi,
I would appreciate a translation of the birth record for Dorota Szmitt, Drwaly. The pastor's handwriting is hard for me to read.
Thank you in advance.
Helli
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