Poland-Family-Research
Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Replies: 47
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:29 am
Post subject: Thank You
Valerie, Thank you very much for the two Orlowski marriage translations. I do believe they are the same Bridget. I didn't know she was a widow when she married Pawel Zaparucha, so details about family members and village names were very helpful. Thanks.
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vbstar2010PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Replies: 291
Location: USABack to top |
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:31 am
Post subject: Re: Jan Grzegorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska Marriage Record
djablonka wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | Could you please take a look at the words underlined in red on the attached document and give me their translation to English?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39367#39367
tegoz = the same
niegdy = once/former or in this instance, the late renowned (title used to address middle class craftsman) Augustyn...
oboyga juz nie żyjących - both no longer living
niegdy we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem zamieszkałych - once residing in the village Raszewo? in the county of Płońsk? [hard to read so not 100% positive on places] |
Thank you so much for the translation! It is very useful. Unfortunately, I think I missed something as I don't understand why the people who were formerly alive are listed. Can you give me any insight into that?
The translation I have after "on Sunday" on the page is:
W niedziele
My Wikary Kosciola Kowalskiego Urzednika
Stanu cywilnego zastępia
gminy Kowalskiej Powiatu tegoz, w Wojewodztwie
Mazowieckie Udawszy się przed
drzwi ci główne wnjścia do domu gminnego
o godzinie dwunastey w południe donieśliśmy
i ogłosiliśmy po pierzwszy raz
iż zaszło przy przyrzeczenie małżeństwa
niegdy sławetnyem Augustyne Woyciechowskim
Lat dwadzieścia dziewięć maiącym
Spłodzonym z Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
i Petronella oboyga juz nie żyjących, niegdy
we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem
zamieszkałych Majstrem Kunsztu szewskiego
W Kowalu
The translation of that I have to English is:
On Sunday
We, the Vicor of the Church of Kowal, Civil
Registrar, Vital Statistics Clerk
district of Kowal county the same, in the Province of
Mazowieckie After having proceeded to the
Main door of the district house
at twelve noon we informed
and announced for the first time
that a promise of marriage occurred
late renowned Augustyne Woyziechowskiem,
twenty nine years old
begotten by Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
And Petonella both no longer living formerly
in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Residing Master Craftsman shoemaker
In Kowal
If it is too much trouble, please don't feel obligated to respond. I don't want to burden you. I am just thinking that there is something that will stand out that I missed. The Marriage record is of Jan Gregorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska so these people being mentioned as no longer living doesn't really make sense to me.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39391#39391
Sorry Dave, I was just looking at underlined words and not really reading content. The first instance where I 'thought' I read "niegdys" is actually "między" = between. So adjusting this portion of your translation it would read as follows --
between renowned Augustyn Wojciechowski,
twenty nine years old
begotten of Wojciech Wojciechowski
And Petonella, both no longer living (or could say -- both already deceased), once residing in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Another point of confusion might be that the record at the bottom of the page in related to the marriage banns/announcement for a different couple; groom being Augustyn Wojciechowski. You'll note the word "Zapowiedz" in the left margin in the middle of the page. Everything to the right of that word to the end of the page is related to the banns for a different couple. The record above "Zapowiedz", is related to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska couple of your interest. The portion at the top of the page is a continuation of text from the previous page. Seems like it is a continuation of the marriage record from the prior page and includes the witnesses to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska marriage.
Witnesses: Karol Michalski, shingler, age 48, ____ Bujalski, farmer, age 38, residing in Kowal, also Błażej Skotnicki, age 31, innkeeper, and Wincenty Kozowicz, age 49, farmer, residing in Kowal
Valerie
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2781
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: Jan Grzegorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska Marriage Record
vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | Could you please take a look at the words underlined in red on the attached document and give me their translation to English?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39367#39367
tegoz = the same
niegdy = once/former or in this instance, the late renowned (title used to address middle class craftsman) Augustyn...
oboyga juz nie żyjących - both no longer living
niegdy we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem zamieszkałych - once residing in the village Raszewo? in the county of Płońsk? [hard to read so not 100% positive on places] |
Thank you so much for the translation! It is very useful. Unfortunately, I think I missed something as I don't understand why the people who were formerly alive are listed. Can you give me any insight into that?
The translation I have after "on Sunday" on the page is:
W niedziele
My Wikary Kosciola Kowalskiego Urzednika
Stanu cywilnego zastępia
gminy Kowalskiej Powiatu tegoz, w Wojewodztwie
Mazowieckie Udawszy się przed
drzwi ci główne wnjścia do domu gminnego
o godzinie dwunastey w południe donieśliśmy
i ogłosiliśmy po pierzwszy raz
iż zaszło przy przyrzeczenie małżeństwa
niegdy sławetnyem Augustyne Woyciechowskim
Lat dwadzieścia dziewięć maiącym
Spłodzonym z Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
i Petronella oboyga juz nie żyjących, niegdy
we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem
zamieszkałych Majstrem Kunsztu szewskiego
W Kowalu
The translation of that I have to English is:
On Sunday
We, the Vicor of the Church of Kowal, Civil
Registrar, Vital Statistics Clerk
district of Kowal county the same, in the Province of
Mazowieckie After having proceeded to the
Main door of the district house
at twelve noon we informed
and announced for the first time
that a promise of marriage occurred
late renowned Augustyne Woyziechowskiem,
twenty nine years old
begotten by Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
And Petonella both no longer living formerly
in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Residing Master Craftsman shoemaker
In Kowal
If it is too much trouble, please don't feel obligated to respond. I don't want to burden you. I am just thinking that there is something that will stand out that I missed. The Marriage record is of Jan Gregorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska so these people being mentioned as no longer living doesn't really make sense to me.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39391#39391
Sorry Dave, I was just looking at underlined words and not really reading content. The first instance where I 'thought' I read "niegdys" is actually "między" = between. So adjusting this portion of your translation it would read as follows --
between renowned Augustyn Wojciechowski,
twenty nine years old
begotten of Wojciech Wojciechowski
And Petonella, both no longer living (or could say -- both already deceased), once residing in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Another point of confusion might be that the record at the bottom of the page in related to the marriage banns/announcement for a different couple; groom being Augustyn Wojciechowski. You'll note the word "Zapowiedz" in the left margin in the middle of the page. Everything to the right of that word to the end of the page is related to the banns for a different couple. The record above "Zapowiedz", is related to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska couple of your interest. The portion at the top of the page is a continuation of text from the previous page. Seems like it is a continuation of the marriage record from the prior page and includes the witnesses to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska marriage.
Witnesses: Karol Michalski, shingler, age 48, ____ Bujalski, farmer, age 38, residing in Kowal, also Błażej Skotnicki, age 31, innkeeper, and Wincenty Kozowicz, age 49, farmer, residing in Kowal
Valerie |
Dave,
The section of the image which begins “Zapowiedz 1sza is the beginning of the record of the banns for the promised marriage between another couple---Augustyn Woyciechowski & his intended bride, as Valerie wrote. Her name should appear on the next page of the record. It has nothing to do with the marriage of Jan & Jozefata except that it is found after their record on the same page. Their record ends with the previous line where the civil registrar signs off on the record of their banns.
Hope this helps to clarify the page for you.
Dave
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djablonka
Joined: 22 Jun 2018
Replies: 45
Location: West Chester, OhioBack to top |
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Jan Grzegorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska Marriage Record
dnowicki wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | Could you please take a look at the words underlined in red on the attached document and give me their translation to English?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39367#39367
tegoz = the same
niegdy = once/former or in this instance, the late renowned (title used to address middle class craftsman) Augustyn...
oboyga juz nie żyjących - both no longer living
niegdy we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem zamieszkałych - once residing in the village Raszewo? in the county of Płońsk? [hard to read so not 100% positive on places] |
Thank you so much for the translation! It is very useful. Unfortunately, I think I missed something as I don't understand why the people who were formerly alive are listed. Can you give me any insight into that?
The translation I have after "on Sunday" on the page is:
W niedziele
My Wikary Kosciola Kowalskiego Urzednika
Stanu cywilnego zastępia
gminy Kowalskiej Powiatu tegoz, w Wojewodztwie
Mazowieckie Udawszy się przed
drzwi ci główne wnjścia do domu gminnego
o godzinie dwunastey w południe donieśliśmy
i ogłosiliśmy po pierzwszy raz
iż zaszło przy przyrzeczenie małżeństwa
niegdy sławetnyem Augustyne Woyciechowskim
Lat dwadzieścia dziewięć maiącym
Spłodzonym z Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
i Petronella oboyga juz nie żyjących, niegdy
we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem
zamieszkałych Majstrem Kunsztu szewskiego
W Kowalu
The translation of that I have to English is:
On Sunday
We, the Vicor of the Church of Kowal, Civil
Registrar, Vital Statistics Clerk
district of Kowal county the same, in the Province of
Mazowieckie After having proceeded to the
Main door of the district house
at twelve noon we informed
and announced for the first time
that a promise of marriage occurred
late renowned Augustyne Woyziechowskiem,
twenty nine years old
begotten by Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
And Petonella both no longer living formerly
in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Residing Master Craftsman shoemaker
In Kowal
If it is too much trouble, please don't feel obligated to respond. I don't want to burden you. I am just thinking that there is something that will stand out that I missed. The Marriage record is of Jan Gregorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska so these people being mentioned as no longer living doesn't really make sense to me.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39391#39391
Sorry Dave, I was just looking at underlined words and not really reading content. The first instance where I 'thought' I read "niegdys" is actually "między" = between. So adjusting this portion of your translation it would read as follows --
between renowned Augustyn Wojciechowski,
twenty nine years old
begotten of Wojciech Wojciechowski
And Petonella, both no longer living (or could say -- both already deceased), once residing in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Another point of confusion might be that the record at the bottom of the page in related to the marriage banns/announcement for a different couple; groom being Augustyn Wojciechowski. You'll note the word "Zapowiedz" in the left margin in the middle of the page. Everything to the right of that word to the end of the page is related to the banns for a different couple. The record above "Zapowiedz", is related to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska couple of your interest. The portion at the top of the page is a continuation of text from the previous page. Seems like it is a continuation of the marriage record from the prior page and includes the witnesses to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska marriage.
Witnesses: Karol Michalski, shingler, age 48, ____ Bujalski, farmer, age 38, residing in Kowal, also Błażej Skotnicki, age 31, innkeeper, and Wincenty Kozowicz, age 49, farmer, residing in Kowal
Valerie |
Dave,
The section of the image which begins “Zapowiedz 1sza is the beginning of the record of the banns for the promised marriage between another couple---Augustyn Woyciechowski & his intended bride, as Valerie wrote. Her name should appear on the next page of the record. It has nothing to do with the marriage of Jan & Jozefata except that it is found after their record on the same page. Their record ends with the previous line where the civil registrar signs off on the record of their banns.
Hope this helps to clarify the page for you.
Dave |
Dave and Valerie, Thanks for your help and I'm sure glad I asked! I was struggling to understand and what you say makes perfect sense. The odd thing is that on the next page of the record book, it goes back to talking about Jozefata. Is there any insight you have as to why?
Thanks again for the insight. I appreciate it!
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka
Description: |
This is the final page of the marriage document. It appears to go back to talking about Jozefata and her wedding. |
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Filesize: |
1.05 MB |
Viewed: |
0 Time(s) |
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_________________ Dave Jablonka
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2781
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Jan Grzegorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska Marriage Record
djablonka wrote: | dnowicki wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | Could you please take a look at the words underlined in red on the attached document and give me their translation to English?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39367#39367
tegoz = the same
niegdy = once/former or in this instance, the late renowned (title used to address middle class craftsman) Augustyn...
oboyga juz nie żyjących - both no longer living
niegdy we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem zamieszkałych - once residing in the village Raszewo? in the county of Płońsk? [hard to read so not 100% positive on places] |
Thank you so much for the translation! It is very useful. Unfortunately, I think I missed something as I don't understand why the people who were formerly alive are listed. Can you give me any insight into that?
The translation I have after "on Sunday" on the page is:
W niedziele
My Wikary Kosciola Kowalskiego Urzednika
Stanu cywilnego zastępia
gminy Kowalskiej Powiatu tegoz, w Wojewodztwie
Mazowieckie Udawszy się przed
drzwi ci główne wnjścia do domu gminnego
o godzinie dwunastey w południe donieśliśmy
i ogłosiliśmy po pierzwszy raz
iż zaszło przy przyrzeczenie małżeństwa
niegdy sławetnyem Augustyne Woyciechowskim
Lat dwadzieścia dziewięć maiącym
Spłodzonym z Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
i Petronella oboyga juz nie żyjących, niegdy
we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem
zamieszkałych Majstrem Kunsztu szewskiego
W Kowalu
The translation of that I have to English is:
On Sunday
We, the Vicor of the Church of Kowal, Civil
Registrar, Vital Statistics Clerk
district of Kowal county the same, in the Province of
Mazowieckie After having proceeded to the
Main door of the district house
at twelve noon we informed
and announced for the first time
that a promise of marriage occurred
late renowned Augustyne Woyziechowskiem,
twenty nine years old
begotten by Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
And Petonella both no longer living formerly
in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Residing Master Craftsman shoemaker
In Kowal
If it is too much trouble, please don't feel obligated to respond. I don't want to burden you. I am just thinking that there is something that will stand out that I missed. The Marriage record is of Jan Gregorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska so these people being mentioned as no longer living doesn't really make sense to me.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39391#39391
Sorry Dave, I was just looking at underlined words and not really reading content. The first instance where I 'thought' I read "niegdys" is actually "między" = between. So adjusting this portion of your translation it would read as follows --
between renowned Augustyn Wojciechowski,
twenty nine years old
begotten of Wojciech Wojciechowski
And Petonella, both no longer living (or could say -- both already deceased), once residing in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Another point of confusion might be that the record at the bottom of the page in related to the marriage banns/announcement for a different couple; groom being Augustyn Wojciechowski. You'll note the word "Zapowiedz" in the left margin in the middle of the page. Everything to the right of that word to the end of the page is related to the banns for a different couple. The record above "Zapowiedz", is related to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska couple of your interest. The portion at the top of the page is a continuation of text from the previous page. Seems like it is a continuation of the marriage record from the prior page and includes the witnesses to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska marriage.
Witnesses: Karol Michalski, shingler, age 48, ____ Bujalski, farmer, age 38, residing in Kowal, also Błażej Skotnicki, age 31, innkeeper, and Wincenty Kozowicz, age 49, farmer, residing in Kowal
Valerie |
Dave,
The section of the image which begins “Zapowiedz 1sza is the beginning of the record of the banns for the promised marriage between another couple---Augustyn Woyciechowski & his intended bride, as Valerie wrote. Her name should appear on the next page of the record. It has nothing to do with the marriage of Jan & Jozefata except that it is found after their record on the same page. Their record ends with the previous line where the civil registrar signs off on the record of their banns.
Hope this helps to clarify the page for you.
Dave |
Dave and Valerie, Thanks for your help and I'm sure glad I asked! I was struggling to understand and what you say makes perfect sense. The odd thing is that on the next page of the record book, it goes back to talking about Jozefata. Is there any insight you have as to why?
Thanks again for the insight. I appreciate it!
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
Dave,
The page contains several record entries. The top finishes the first announcement of the banns for Augustyn and his bride to be Wiktorja. The next section speaks about the second announcement of the banns with no direct mention of the parties involved (twice). The page concludes with a marriage record (Akt Małzeństwa #44). Is that where you see Jozefata mentioned?
In Catholic parishes the marriage banns were supposed to be announced three times on Sundays or a combination of Sundays and Feast Days when Catholics were obliged to attend Mass. The purpose of the banns was to provide an opportunity for discovery of any impediments to the proposed marriage. The parish priest could dispense from one announcement of the banns on his own. He could also apply to the local bishop for a dispensation from a second announcement of the banns or from all three. Things get a bit murky with civil records---especially those not long after 1815. Napoleon’s original plan was to separate the civil records from the parish clergy. That plan soon ran into difficulties in places where only the parish priests were literate. Long story short---parish priests became civil registrars. In this case in 1822 the parish priest was “wearing two hats”. He was acting as an official (minister) of the Catholic Church and at the same time was a civil registrar acting as an official of the civil government. This situation sometimes made it difficult to know whether the religious or the civil obligations took precedence for him in any given situation.
The priest did post a written copy of the banns on the church door (sometimes referred to as the community house). In rural areas that was often a mere formality because of the low rate of literacy among the people of the parish. The actual effective promulgation of the banns was the announcement he made from the pulpit before the sermon. Anyone who had not fallen asleep (Ha,Ha) by that point could hear and understand the announcement of the banns.
Part of the priest’s obligation as civil registrar at that time was to keep a record of the banns. Keep in mind that the banns are preliminaries to the wedding. The actual marriage took place when the bride and the groom exchanged their mutual consent in the presence of the priest and the two official witnesses. The bride and the groom were the ministers and the priest was one of the three official witnesses to their contracting marriage. The final act in the completion of the marriage contract was something done in private---the consummation of the marriage by the conjugal act.
Back to your original question---Civil records for the first quarter of the 19th Century were not kept in as orderly fashion as those from the remainder of the century. In the early records births, marriages and deaths were often recorded together in the same register regardless of the type of record. Later separate registers were used for each type of record. The jumble of early records can often be frustrating for someone looking for a particular record. In the pages you posted it appears that at least records of banns and records of the actual wedding were recorded in the same register. If Record #44 is that of the marriage of Jan & Jozefata the reason it follows the earlier banns is that is just the way banns and marriage records were jumbled together. That would be why a later record returns to speaking about Jozefata.
Hope this long winded explanation answers your question and clarifies a few things.
Dave
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djablonka
Joined: 22 Jun 2018
Replies: 45
Location: West Chester, OhioBack to top |
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Jan Grzegorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska Marriage Record
dnowicki wrote: | djablonka wrote: | dnowicki wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | vbstar2010 wrote: | djablonka wrote: | Could you please take a look at the words underlined in red on the attached document and give me their translation to English?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39367#39367
tegoz = the same
niegdy = once/former or in this instance, the late renowned (title used to address middle class craftsman) Augustyn...
oboyga juz nie żyjących - both no longer living
niegdy we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem zamieszkałych - once residing in the village Raszewo? in the county of Płońsk? [hard to read so not 100% positive on places] |
Thank you so much for the translation! It is very useful. Unfortunately, I think I missed something as I don't understand why the people who were formerly alive are listed. Can you give me any insight into that?
The translation I have after "on Sunday" on the page is:
W niedziele
My Wikary Kosciola Kowalskiego Urzednika
Stanu cywilnego zastępia
gminy Kowalskiej Powiatu tegoz, w Wojewodztwie
Mazowieckie Udawszy się przed
drzwi ci główne wnjścia do domu gminnego
o godzinie dwunastey w południe donieśliśmy
i ogłosiliśmy po pierzwszy raz
iż zaszło przy przyrzeczenie małżeństwa
niegdy sławetnyem Augustyne Woyciechowskim
Lat dwadzieścia dziewięć maiącym
Spłodzonym z Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
i Petronella oboyga juz nie żyjących, niegdy
we wsi Raszewie w powiecie Płońskiem
zamieszkałych Majstrem Kunsztu szewskiego
W Kowalu
The translation of that I have to English is:
On Sunday
We, the Vicor of the Church of Kowal, Civil
Registrar, Vital Statistics Clerk
district of Kowal county the same, in the Province of
Mazowieckie After having proceeded to the
Main door of the district house
at twelve noon we informed
and announced for the first time
that a promise of marriage occurred
late renowned Augustyne Woyziechowskiem,
twenty nine years old
begotten by Woyciecska Woyciechowskiego
And Petonella both no longer living formerly
in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Residing Master Craftsman shoemaker
In Kowal
If it is too much trouble, please don't feel obligated to respond. I don't want to burden you. I am just thinking that there is something that will stand out that I missed. The Marriage record is of Jan Gregorzewska and Jozefata Jackowska so these people being mentioned as no longer living doesn't really make sense to me.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
==
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=39391#39391
Sorry Dave, I was just looking at underlined words and not really reading content. The first instance where I 'thought' I read "niegdys" is actually "między" = between. So adjusting this portion of your translation it would read as follows --
between renowned Augustyn Wojciechowski,
twenty nine years old
begotten of Wojciech Wojciechowski
And Petonella, both no longer living (or could say -- both already deceased), once residing in the village Raszewo in the county of Płońsk
Another point of confusion might be that the record at the bottom of the page in related to the marriage banns/announcement for a different couple; groom being Augustyn Wojciechowski. You'll note the word "Zapowiedz" in the left margin in the middle of the page. Everything to the right of that word to the end of the page is related to the banns for a different couple. The record above "Zapowiedz", is related to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska couple of your interest. The portion at the top of the page is a continuation of text from the previous page. Seems like it is a continuation of the marriage record from the prior page and includes the witnesses to the Grzegorzewski/Jackowska marriage.
Witnesses: Karol Michalski, shingler, age 48, ____ Bujalski, farmer, age 38, residing in Kowal, also Błażej Skotnicki, age 31, innkeeper, and Wincenty Kozowicz, age 49, farmer, residing in Kowal
Valerie |
Dave,
The section of the image which begins “Zapowiedz 1sza is the beginning of the record of the banns for the promised marriage between another couple---Augustyn Woyciechowski & his intended bride, as Valerie wrote. Her name should appear on the next page of the record. It has nothing to do with the marriage of Jan & Jozefata except that it is found after their record on the same page. Their record ends with the previous line where the civil registrar signs off on the record of their banns.
Hope this helps to clarify the page for you.
Dave |
Dave and Valerie, Thanks for your help and I'm sure glad I asked! I was struggling to understand and what you say makes perfect sense. The odd thing is that on the next page of the record book, it goes back to talking about Jozefata. Is there any insight you have as to why?
Thanks again for the insight. I appreciate it!
Sincerely,
Dave Jablonka |
Dave,
The page contains several record entries. The top finishes the first announcement of the banns for Augustyn and his bride to be Wiktorja. The next section speaks about the second announcement of the banns with no direct mention of the parties involved (twice). The page concludes with a marriage record (Akt Małzeństwa #44). Is that where you see Jozefata mentioned?
In Catholic parishes the marriage banns were supposed to be announced three times on Sundays or a combination of Sundays and Feast Days when Catholics were obliged to attend Mass. The purpose of the banns was to provide an opportunity for discovery of any impediments to the proposed marriage. The parish priest could dispense from one announcement of the banns on his own. He could also apply to the local bishop for a dispensation from a second announcement of the banns or from all three. Things get a bit murky with civil records---especially those not long after 1815. Napoleon’s original plan was to separate the civil records from the parish clergy. That plan soon ran into difficulties in places where only the parish priests were literate. Long story short---parish priests became civil registrars. In this case in 1822 the parish priest was “wearing two hats”. He was acting as an official (minister) of the Catholic Church and at the same time was a civil registrar acting as an official of the civil government. This situation sometimes made it difficult to know whether the religious or the civil obligations took precedence for him in any given situation.
The priest did post a written copy of the banns on the church door (sometimes referred to as the community house). In rural areas that was often a mere formality because of the low rate of literacy among the people of the parish. The actual effective promulgation of the banns was the announcement he made from the pulpit before the sermon. Anyone who had not fallen asleep (Ha,Ha) by that point could hear and understand the announcement of the banns.
Part of the priest’s obligation as civil registrar at that time was to keep a record of the banns. Keep in mind that the banns are preliminaries to the wedding. The actual marriage took place when the bride and the groom exchanged their mutual consent in the presence of the priest and the two official witnesses. The bride and the groom were the ministers and the priest was one of the three official witnesses to their contracting marriage. The final act in the completion of the marriage contract was something done in private---the consummation of the marriage by the conjugal act.
Back to your original question---Civil records for the first quarter of the 19th Century were not kept in as orderly fashion as those from the remainder of the century. In the early records births, marriages and deaths were often recorded together in the same register regardless of the type of record. Later separate registers were used for each type of record. The jumble of early records can often be frustrating for someone looking for a particular record. In the pages you posted it appears that at least records of banns and records of the actual wedding were recorded in the same register. If Record #44 is that of the marriage of Jan & Jozefata the reason it follows the earlier banns is that is just the way banns and marriage records were jumbled together. That would be why a later record returns to speaking about Jozefata.
Hope this long winded explanation answers your question and clarifies a few things.
Dave |
Dave, Thanks for such a complete explanation! I really appreciate all of the detail. As it turns out, I was wrong about the record being continued later. I saw the last name Jackowski, or what I thought was that, and assumed it continued. After your feedback, I relooked at things I think that the record keeper forgot to write the next record number by the marriage record after my relatives, skipping from #43 to #44 and putting two marriage documents in #43. Or, they appeared to be married on the same day so maybe record #43 contained 2 marriage records because both occurred on the same day. Regardless, my job just got easier because I am done with my translation! Thanks for helping me get to the bottom of things!
Sincerely, Dave Jablonka
_________________ Dave Jablonka
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starkey76
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Replies: 164
Location: Wheeling, WV USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:37 am
Post subject: Katarzyna Szamier death
Hello,
I was wondering if someone could translate a death for Katarzyna Krajewska, wife of Tomasz Szamier. It's #62 on the page. She was my 4x GG. Thanks in advance.
John
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Poland-Family-Research
Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Replies: 47
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:25 am
Post subject: Translation
I have two Lasocki death records in 1827 from the Piotrkow Kujawski Parish (Ignacy and Lukasz). I would appreciate assistance with the translation, and thank you in advance.
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PabianAusPO Top Contributor
Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 181
Location: AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Katarzyna Szamier death
starkey76 wrote: | Hello,
I was wondering if someone could translate a death for Katarzyna Krajewska, wife of Tomasz Szamier. It's #62 on the page. She was my 4x GG. Thanks in advance.
John |
Parish: Krzynowłoga Mała
Village: Ostrowe Dyle
Death Record #62
Date of registration: 30 May/11 June 1844
Declarants: Tomasz Szamier age 34, Antoni Smoliński age 50, both residing in Ostrowe Dyle
Date of death: Yesterday (i.e. 29 May/10 June 1844) at 5 a.m.
Place of death: Dyle (I assume this means Ostrowe Dyle)
Name of deceased: Katarzyna Szamier nee Krajewska
Age of deceased: 33
Leaves behind a husband: Tomasz
Their marriage was on 26 June 1827 in the parish of Krzynowłoga Wielka, record #18. Tomasz’s surname was spelt Chamier, and he had a middle name of Adam. http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=6&zs=0102d&sy=1827&kt=2&plik=17-18.jpg#zoom=1&x=1933&y=72
Tom
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starkey76
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Replies: 164
Location: Wheeling, WV USABack to top |
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:08 am
Post subject: Re: Katarzyna Szamier death
PabianAus wrote: | starkey76 wrote: | Hello,
I was wondering if someone could translate a death for Katarzyna Krajewska, wife of Tomasz Szamier. It's #62 on the page. She was my 4x GG. Thanks in advance.
John |
Parish: Krzynowłoga Mała
Village: Ostrowe Dyle
Death Record #62
Date of registration: 30 May/11 June 1844
Declarants: Tomasz Szamier age 34, Antoni Smoliński age 50, both residing in Ostrowe Dyle
Date of death: Yesterday (i.e. 29 May/10 June 1844) at 5 a.m.
Place of death: Dyle (I assume this means Ostrowe Dyle)
Name of deceased: Katarzyna Szamier nee Krajewska
Age of deceased: 33
Leaves behind a husband: Tomasz
Their marriage was on 26 June 1827 in the parish of Krzynowłoga Wielka, record #18. Tomasz’s surname was spelt Chamier, and he had a middle name of Adam. http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=6&zs=0102d&sy=1827&kt=2&plik=17-18.jpg#zoom=1&x=1933&y=72
Tom |
Hello,
Thank you Tom. I had seen the 1827 marriage and traced Tomasz Szamier(1809-1866) having 10 children with Katarzyna, and 10 more with 2nd wife Franciszka Chmielinska. Tomasz father was Jakub Chamier/Szamier(1780-1810), but I think I ran into dead end prior to 1804 marriage. Katarzyna's mother, Apolonia, married in 1811 to Franciszek Krajewski, but had name Tanski-Roman, so I think she was widowed possibly. I think she died in 1815. Thank you again
John
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PabianAusPO Top Contributor
Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 181
Location: AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:39 am
Post subject: Re: Translation
Poland-Family-Research wrote: | I have two Lasocki death records in 1827 from the Piotrkow Kujawski Parish (Ignacy and Lukasz). I would appreciate assistance with the translation, and thank you in advance. |
Parish: Piotrków Kujawski
Village: Lubsin
Death Record #36
Date of registration: 6 November 1827 at 7 a.m.
Declarants: Maciej Lasocki, farmhand age 34 residing in Chełmica, Szczepan Lasocki, landlord age 31 residing in Lubsin
Date of death: 4 November 1827 at 8 p.m.
Place of death: Lubsin
Name of deceased: Łukasz Lasocki
Occupation of deceased: Landlord
Age of deceased: 80
Wife’s name: Agnieszka nee Sypiewska (pre-deceased)
Parish: Piotrków Kujawski
Village: Lubsin
Death Record #16
Date of registration: 15 July 1827 at 5 p.m.
Declarants: Szczepan Lasocki, landlord, age 30 residing in Lubsin and Maciej Lasocki, farmhand, age 23 residing in Chełmica
Date of death: 13 July 1827 at 12 noon.
Place of death: Lubsin
Name of deceased: Ignacy Lasocki
Occupation of deceased: Landlord
Age of deceased: 40
Parents names: Łukasz and Agnieszka
Place of birth: Lubsin
Leaves behind a widow: Katarzyna nee Gorzycka
Tom
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Poland-Family-Research
Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Replies: 47
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:12 am
Post subject: Thanks
Tom, Thank you for the Lasocki translations. You were very helpful.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:15 pm
Post subject:
Hello. I would greatly appreciate if the enclosed document for my great x 3 grandmother's birth could be translated, please. Thank you. /Joe Schroeder
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PabianAusPO Top Contributor
Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 181
Location: AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:13 am
Post subject:
JoeSchroeder wrote: | Hello. I would greatly appreciate if the enclosed document for my great x 3 grandmother's birth could be translated, please. Thank you. /Joe Schroeder |
Hey Joe,
It always helps if you post the link to the original record. That allows translators to get in real close to the detail. http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=2&zs=0072d&sy=1829&kt=1&plik=39-50.jpg#zoom=0.75&x=1706&y=1942
Parish: Lutkówka
Village: Cychry (about 5kms SE of Lutkówka)
Birth Record #50
Date of registration: 5 November 1829 at 3 p.m.
Declarant (the father): Kacper Cetkowski, age 25, landlord, residing in Cychry
Witnesses: Franciszek (?) Cetkowski, age 40?, landlord residing in Cychry and Jakób Piątek, age 80, landlord residing in Cychry.
Date of birth: 4 November 1829 at 8 a.m.
Place of birth: Cychry
Name of child: Katarzyna
Mother’s name: Elżbieta Wojcik age 25
Godparents: Mateusz Mokrzycki and Zofia Grędowska
Tom
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:05 am
Post subject: Thank you
Tom, thank you very much for the translation of my Cetkowski great x 3 grandmother's birth record. I appreciate it. /Joe
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