TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 575
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:04 pm
Post subject: Question: What is the correct way to list a town in Prussia?
Hi!
I keep getting emails from people telling me I have the town listed for my ancestors as incorrect. Can someone please explain to me the correct way to write the town's name?
An example is my Ostrowski family comes from Gebice, gmina: Mogilno. All the records I have from 1820-1870 show the town listed as Gembice. I have the town written as Gembice, Mogilno, Posen, Prussia, Germany. The records come from the amily Search Library films as Gembitz, Moglino, Posen, Prussia, Germany.
Another example is my Pisarski family came from Szamocin, gmina: Margonin. The records from Family Search are from Margonin, Kolmar, Posen, Prussia, Germany. This particular town went by Samoczyn, Samoczin, Szamocin. The records are from 1790-1850. Each record I have has a different spelling on it. I list the town with the way it was spelled in that particular year. An example is Samoczyn, Margonin, Kolmar, Posen, Germany.
Am I correct in writing the towns this way? I do have notations as to what the town is listed as of today. I also know that Poland did not exist for as a country for many years and this is why it would have been listed as Prussia.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!
Trish
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:13 am
Post subject:
Hi Trish!
I would recommend that you use an online tool called "Kartenmeister" the website allows you to type in the name of your town and show you where it is located today and its current name.
To use your example of Gebice, if we type "Gebice" into the search engine, we find an entry for Gebice, county/kreis: Moglino.
For more info on Gebice press the link below
http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=105213
For your second example of Szamocin, Margonin, if we type "Szamocin" into the search engine we get three entries which you can view for yourself at the link below. I hope this helped!
http://kartenmeister.com/preview/Results.asp
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 575
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 1:54 pm
Post subject:
| DylanWoods wrote: | Hi Trish!
I would recommend that you use an online tool called "Kartenmeister" the website allows you to type in the name of your town and show you where it is located today and its current name.
To use your example of Gebice, if we type "Gebice" into the search engine, we find an entry for Gebice, county/kreis: Moglino.
For more info on Gebice press the link below
http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=105213
For your second example of Szamocin, Margonin, if we type "Szamocin" into the search engine we get three entries which you can view for yourself at the link below. I hope this helped!
http://kartenmeister.com/preview/Results.asp |
Hi Dylan,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I use Kartenmeister.com all the time. Thank you for your advice.
Trish
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1603
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Question: What is the correct way to list a town in Prus
| Trish wrote: | Hi!
I keep getting emails from people telling me I have the town listed for my ancestors as incorrect. Can someone please explain to me the correct way to write the town's name?
An example is my Ostrowski family comes from Gebice, gmina: Mogilno. All the records I have from 1820-1870 show the town listed as Gembice. I have the town written as Gembice, Mogilno, Posen, Prussia, Germany. The records come from the amily Search Library films as Gembitz, Moglino, Posen, Prussia, Germany.
Another example is my Pisarski family came from Szamocin, gmina: Margonin. The records from Family Search are from Margonin, Kolmar, Posen, Prussia, Germany. This particular town went by Samoczyn, Samoczin, Szamocin. The records are from 1790-1850. Each record I have has a different spelling on it. I list the town with the way it was spelled in that particular year. An example is Samoczyn, Margonin, Kolmar, Posen, Germany.
Am I correct in writing the towns this way? I do have notations as to what the town is listed as of today. I also know that Poland did not exist for as a country for many years and this is why it would have been listed as Prussia.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!
Trish |
Hi Trish,
One sentence that you wrote captures exactly the way I view this conundrum. You said, "I list the town the way it was spelled in that particular year." Then you add the current name of the place. This makes perfect sense to me, because it provides the two things I would want to know the most, which are what the place was called when my ancestor lived there, and how it is designated now so that I can find it on a map today.
Your examples have to do with places that were part of Prussia and now are part of Poland, which brings the complication of the different languages used by those governments which is part of what you are trying to clarify. I would add that, even during one individual's lifetime, the designation of a place could change multiple times despite the national borders not being moved. For example, in Poland from 1975-1998 there were 49 voivodeships (but no powiats) whereas since 1999 there are 16 voivodeships, each divided into powiats, which are divided into gminas. If some future genealogist wants to understand how to locate records for a person who lived through this period, it will be essential to know how a town was denoted in the year for which they want to find a record. It is also helpful in understanding that "box of old letters in the attic" in which you see the family that wrote to your grandmother lived in woj. bialostockie but later lived in woj. łomżyńskie and now live in woj. podlaskie .... yet they always lived in the same town!
It is my opinion that if you have set yourself a rule (such as, record the name of the town just the way it is shown in the records, add the current designation of the town, and include maps when possible) and then you have stuck to that rule, then that is more important than whether someone else tells you that it is incorrect.
Just my two pfennigs, O.K. I mean my two groszy, oops I mean my two cents!
Sophia
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 575
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Question: What is the correct way to list a town in Prus
| Sophia wrote: | | Trish wrote: | Hi!
I keep getting emails from people telling me I have the town listed for my ancestors as incorrect. Can someone please explain to me the correct way to write the town's name?
An example is my Ostrowski family comes from Gebice, gmina: Mogilno. All the records I have from 1820-1870 show the town listed as Gembice. I have the town written as Gembice, Mogilno, Posen, Prussia, Germany. The records come from the amily Search Library films as Gembitz, Moglino, Posen, Prussia, Germany.
Another example is my Pisarski family came from Szamocin, gmina: Margonin. The records from Family Search are from Margonin, Kolmar, Posen, Prussia, Germany. This particular town went by Samoczyn, Samoczin, Szamocin. The records are from 1790-1850. Each record I have has a different spelling on it. I list the town with the way it was spelled in that particular year. An example is Samoczyn, Margonin, Kolmar, Posen, Germany.
Am I correct in writing the towns this way? I do have notations as to what the town is listed as of today. I also know that Poland did not exist for as a country for many years and this is why it would have been listed as Prussia.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!
Trish |
Hi Trish,
One sentence that you wrote captures exactly the way I view this conundrum. You said, "I list the town the way it was spelled in that particular year." Then you add the current name of the place. This makes perfect sense to me, because it provides the two things I would want to know the most, which are what the place was called when my ancestor lived there, and how it is designated now so that I can find it on a map today.
Your examples have to do with places that were part of Prussia and now are part of Poland, which brings the complication of the different languages used by those governments which is part of what you are trying to clarify. I would add that, even during one individual's lifetime, the designation of a place could change multiple times despite the national borders not being moved. For example, in Poland from 1975-1998 there were 49 voivodeships (but no powiats) whereas since 1999 there are 16 voivodeships, each divided into powiats, which are divided into gminas. If some future genealogist wants to understand how to locate records for a person who lived through this period, it will be essential to know how a town was denoted in the year for which they want to find a record. It is also helpful in understanding that "box of old letters in the attic" in which you see the family that wrote to your grandmother lived in woj. bialostockie but later lived in woj. łomżyńskie and now live in woj. podlaskie .... yet they always lived in the same town!
It is my opinion that if you have set yourself a rule (such as, record the name of the town just the way it is shown in the records, add the current designation of the town, and include maps when possible) and then you have stuck to that rule, then that is more important than whether someone else tells you that it is incorrect.
Just my two pfennigs, O.K. I mean my two groszy, oops I mean my two cents!
Sophia |
Hi Sophia,
Thank you for so much for your advice. I'm trying to be as correct as possible with my souce information. This is why I add what the town is known as today as well as what is was known as when the record was written.
I like your idea of adding a map. It will give the location of the town. I think the map will really help show how some of my family traveled from one town to the next. (This might be a new subject.)
Have a wonderful day!
Trish
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